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I'm not sure whether or not many EOS members have had the need to deal with Spanish courts during the purchase or construction of the "dream" home. However, I would like to detail a recent experience of my wife and I.
We reserved a plot of land from a developer on a new development close to Benalmadena Pueblo on the Costa del Sol in July 2000. The agreement was that the developer was to build a villa on the plot which would be delivered 16 months after signing the contract.
We signed at the notary for the land 26th April 2001. Therefore completion should have been 26th Aug 2002. By 20th March 2002 we had paid 90% of the total cost of the villa.
After numerous excuses for delays we finally discovered in June 2003 that the builder would not hand over the keys for our villa to the developer due to an ensuing court case which was raised when the developer failed to pay the builder for some previous work which he had carried out.
At this time the lease had expired on the rental property in which my family were living. Seeing as the landlady wanted the property back (she had already extended the lease by a year) we had to move out. The developer had provided accommodation to some of our neighbours due to delays so we approach them to be told that they had nothing available.
We had sold our property in the UK to finance our "dream home in Spain", therefore moving back there was not an option.
At this point we went back to the estate agent who sold us the project in search of assistance. Stupid of me to expect any help I know, as they had sold me the project, but I was grasping at straws. No luck there.
To cut a long story short we consulted with a lawyer and paid the builder what he was owed by the developer (more than we owed the developer).
After getting our keys and moving in the developer came with the notary to request the final payment (which we had paid to the builder).
A court proceeding was started, was cancelled by the other party four times before culminating in us finally getting to court on 22nd Feb 2007.
On appearing at the court we were told the judge was not going to award in our favour and that if we wanted to proceed then we would get no compensation and would have to pay all legal costs for both parties. My lawyer said that he wasn't too happy about it all but the judge was probably in the developer’s pocket.
We settled "out of court" for 6800 euros. For defects alone we had presented an architects report endorsed by the college of architects which valued defects and work not carried out as per the contract to be in the region of 47 000 euros. The delay clause in the contract should have added another 7000 euros. As I am typing this we are having a retaining wall built to the side of our property which collapsed in heavy rain (we have a document signed by the developer and witnessed by a notary to public that states that all necessary precautions would be taken to ensure that this would not happen) for which we have been told that the cost will be between 25 000 - 32 000 depending the extent of the work requires once the construction begins.
A meeting is scheduled with my lawyer tomorrow evening at which he will undoubtedly express his displeasure at the way things went in court but none the less present us with a bill for the last four years legal fees.
Apart from all this we're still "living the dream"!!!
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This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/17/2007.
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You was right first time. No typo. six thousand eight hundred euros. We are still pretty devastated.
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This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/17/2007.
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All hugs appreciated. I'm going out to look through bins now to see what I can find to feed my family on tonight.
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Crikey Amandagosnold - what an awful experience! I hope things pick up for you and good luck with living here.
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Quite frankly m'dear, I don't give a damn!
www.herbalmarbella.com
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amandagosnold
And you still have a sense of humour?
I am so so sorry for you, that all sounds awful. I wish you luck in the future, not sure what else I can say...............
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FibbyUK
One off fee to pay your own La Renta tax (210 Form)
Check out my website:
http://www.payingtaxesinspain210form.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that you settled out of Court by YOU paying 6,800 - as you said that the Judge did not rule in your favour - or that you were paid a pittance of 6,800? Either way, how utterly demoralising. I cannot even begin to go where you have been!
How sad a reflection on what one puts their trust in.
If you got through that, you can get through most things, I'm sure. All the best to you. This message was last edited by Pitby on 2/27/2007.
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That's an awful story, Amanda and I wish you luck ongoing. Who told you when you appeared at court that the judge would not find in your favour and how did he/she know? Also, your lawyer said the judge was probably in the developer's pocket. I have heard of this before and am asking if any other members have experience of going to court, but with the case already 'decided'. This is of interest to me because I am also in dispute with a developer and am considering court action.
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Amandagosnold
i really dispair of the Spanish law system. If you cant even get a judge to do the right thing, where is the incentive for the sharks to change their bad ways?
Our case comes up soon, (nearly 5 years since we put deposit down) so it saddens me to hear such corruption still going on, after all the bad press about the low life developers etc. Our dream has turned in to a nightmare, and despite a long time love of Spain, i now feel i want nothing to do with it, apart from warning others and helping where i can. It will be a long time before the very thought of Spain makes me feel happy like it used to.
It just sounds like you have been well and truly screwed by a very poor system at all levels, what more can you say?
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Goodstich 44
Oh no not one of the rude and negative ones from the Claire and Charlie club.
This forum is for people that appear to wish to give a fair and balanced view point and hopefully you will refrain from the often verbal vommit antics potrayed on another media website.
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Sunbelt, am I missing something here, or have I just led a sheltered life? Your comment re Goodstitch was sort of cryptic to me and as such didn't add to the fair and balanced view etc. Neither would I have considered it, on its own, as verbal vomit. What is the Claire and Charlie club?
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Plexx,
I think Sunbelt is referring to "The Claire and Charlie" who are BIG posters on Spanish Property Insight? Charlie used to post on the "Marbella Hill View" and "El Soto de Marbella" development forums. She has a geat deal of knowledge about the CDS property market and Agents etc. But she's also guilty of upsetting members with ill thought postings at times!
We asked her to leave our forum......................
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Mike T
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plexx
the reason sunbelt is angry is that he has been rumbled by Charlie and Claire as defending the low life sharks that amandagosnold has come up against, and then calling that 'a balanced view' ...why i dont know?, i can only assume he has an intertest in defending the very people who are making many peoples lives a misery? Claire and Charlie bravely took on the sharks on the CDS, and won. That is a fact that can be checked out.
Miket said about Charlie quote: ''She has a geat deal of knowledge about the CDS property market and Agents etc.''.........this is spot on, Charlie speaks her truth in a direct manor and wont suffer fools. If you want to speak to a pair of winners against the sharks, talk to Charlie or Clair. If you talk bull***t to them, you will get the reply from them that Sunbelt got.
If we win our case, i will be shouting positive messages far and wide, but just reading amandagosnolds original post, makes you realise just what we could be up against. I feel the tide is turning, and the low life sharks are at last in some cases, being bought to justice, but we have a long way to go. If more people like Charlie and Clair stand up against them (with the help of a genuine trustworthy lawyer) and win their cases, then i feel it can only be a move in the right direction and help everyone in the long term.
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Not been around for long on this forum but having had so many people offer help and assistance and share in the experiences whether good or bad I can't help wonder what sheltered lives some people must lead to post some of the messages that they do, my six year old would act more mature.
I'm sure taking on any court case can not be easy even more so if it is a different country, so good luck goodstich and anyone else who has the determination to fight for what they believe in, hopefully the more knowledge we gain from forums such as these the less others can take advantage.
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Scrufty
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MikeT, I recall Charlie from the MHV and El Soto sites (you and I have exchanged private emails in the past). Yes, some of her postings (I thought she was a bloke) seemed unsubstantiated, used bad language and seemed designed to upset. And we never really established if she was an owner, or not, although she claimed to have resold an apartment in MHV via Viva. Well, if that was true, more power to her elbow. I think she described herself as acting for investors. I also recall that she said that there was no planning permission for MHV and that was why building had been halted. Was that correct? I didn't think so at the time. Goodstitch, it's good to hear another side. and good luck with your case. I am at the stage in my dispute where I am considering financial settlement or proceeding to court for resolution of contract. This message was last edited by plexx on 2/28/2007.
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Plexx,
We actually employed the services of a Scotish Chartered Surveyor and then a firm of Spanish Architects to check out the whole of our Marbella Hill View development including of course the Building and Planning permissions. Has with everything in Spain nothings that straight forward but we were advised that all planning paperwork was approved by the Ojen Council. We did however, discover that the "Protected" Cork forest and World Biosphere area that was described by Viva Estates in their literature was totally untrue! There was nothing on the planning records to show that this was a legally protected area? In fact as you are aware the dirt track road that cut through the cork forest is now a Tarmac" road leading down to a Taylor Woodrow development that has blighted our spectacular view somewhat! We have now submitted a group action claim against our developer through the courts for Breach of Contract and return of our deposits. We are absolutely committed to see our case heard at the highest level no matter how long it takes!
So on this point "Charlie" I think her real name is Barbara was completely wrong? The problem I have with "knowledgeable people" is that we tend to believe what they say until we find out otherwise..................
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Mike T
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Goodstich 44
FACTS ARE
Claire and Charlie took on a case they could hardly loose.
They are rude to the extreme to anyone that does not agree with their views and supported by many sad individuals how just wish to blame everyone but themselves.(speak as you expect to be spoken to and then there is no problem)
There is nothing wrong with fighting any cause but it should be carried out with a reasonable amount of consideration for others viewpoints and to get facts right before isseing very rude and insulting remarks to which YOUadded.
If they and you or anyone choose to make these remarks you can expect that just one day someone will bite back and that someone was me and supported by around 40 P/Ms saying it was about time.
Running to Mark with only half a story was their only answer and all you wimps just rallied around and its clear that most of you on that forum havent a clue how to tackle anything in a positive manner .
You just cant carry on with personal vendettas against people without getting facts right and its obviuos that there are a bunch of you that bring extra misery and worry to some without looking a balance view
I believe this forum or somone from this forum posted the other site and were slaugtered.
I am not prepared to enter into further corresponance regarding this matter as it will only help make this forum sink to the levels of the other one where there are no winners and no loosers.
DEAL WITH YOUR PROBLEMS AND JUST STOP MOANING WE ARE ALL GETTING FED UP WITH IT AS WE ARE DEALING WITH OUR OWN
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scrufty/plexx/miket
thanks for your support, and yes off course i realise, everyone makes mistakes, i have no knowledge of the particular incident miket speaks of, but i would like to hear Charlies version of this. I have had so much good advice from Charlie, Clair and several other regular posters on the other main forum as well as this one, that it makes me very sad when they are slated for the odd mistake or speaking harshly. Surely the fact that even though they have won their cases, they still continue to help others fight the sharks and a very unfair system at times, speaks volumes!
I realise there are good developers, agents, layers etc, and thousands of happy people on the CDS, who's experiences have been nothing like as bad as amandgosnold's or ours, Charlies, Claire's etc, and good luck to you all. All we ever wanted was to be in your position, and hopefully one day will be, and my posts will reflect that. In the meantime though, we just have to battle against the bad guys and try to change the system that allows them to exist and cheat and lie to innocent people.
Thanks to everyone who follows that path.
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