To use a solicitor/gestoria or not!!!!!

I would suggest you get professional advice on buying the land, or you my just be parting with money and find you have nothing. you must have deed of purchase and this requires a solicitor.

Regards

Don McLeod

Hi Maggy,

Welcome to EOS..................

Please, please, please get a solicitor NOW.

Do not part with a penny, or cent unless it is to a solicitor that YOU have found, not one that the seller of the land may suggest.

This sounds very very suspicious to me.

Please be very careful

Kind regards,

Thanks to those who have posted a reply, I am going to call a solicitor in the morning and book an appointment asap, I haven't parted with any money yet, thank goodness.....

I will keep you all posted on here as to how I get on

Once again thanks very much.  Maggy.

Whew!

You listened to us lot, well done!!!

Let us know how you get on,

Kind regards,

Hi I have been looking at the costs for the architects and the land surveyor's fees.

Does anybody have any idea how they price these up because I can't see why they should charge a % of the costs it could differ greatly, can anyone recommend how to work the costs out, I have been reading various publications but I just don't want to leave myself open to abuse!  Any help or links on building property from scratch in Spain would be most welcome.

Hi Maggy,

This is a big subject so I´ll try to be as brief as pos.

1) I would suggest you ask your lawyer to find an architect he can recommend and work with.  this will make life easy for all concerned.

2) Get your lawyer to find out first if planning consent is possible on the plot.  Plano Parcial or as in the UK outline planning permission. 

3) If planning is possible on the land then your lawyer needs to ask  "How many m2 of build is possible".  Usually in the Murcia area up to 150m2 house.  Also ask how many floors 1 or 2 etc.

4) If planning is possible and you get your build size agreed in principle, DO NOT CONSIDER THIS TO BE GUARANTEED.  You will find that it will take up to 2 years before the Enviro in Murcia rubber stamp it, even after 2 years of waiting they could easily say NO, as rules change during that kind of time lapse.

5) So if you´re still brave enough to continue, next  buy the land and get your architect to draw up a design for submission to the town hall.  It´s a good idea to look at loads of new build show houses to give you ideas.  Or cut out the room shapes and sizes you would like and try and fit them together avoiding exceeding your build size.

6) The architect you choose should be willing to be the project manager to see the whole thing through to completion.  He will draw up full plans and submit them to the town hall as a project (proyecto).  At this point he will charge you for his time could be up to €5,000 or as low as €3,000.  If you feel your architect is good don´t skimp on these fees.

7) The architect will also take funds off you for the apericador (the man in the town hall who puts your project to planning) this is usually around €4,000.  - €8,000 depending on the build cost estimates obtained by the architect prior to application.

8)  Here in Murcia the build costs should be between €750 - €1,000 per square metre.  So a 150m2 house would cost around €150,000, this would include all fittings inc. bathrooms and kitchen etc.

9) Then you wait and wait and wait and wait then wait a bit more for 2 years.

10) If you are lucky and they say yes, you can go ahead with your architect obtaining the building licence and begin laying bricks.

11) On completion the architect will arrange for the Habitation Certificate, so he can apply for you electricity and water certificate and connection.  With this done you can arrange an appointment at the Notary with your lawyer to sign title deeds (Escritura).

There will be further costs down the line  - 1% here 2% there, it changes so much here in Murcia that not even your architect will be able to give you exact costs.  Just make sure you have 20% in hand over the build costs to be sure you are covered.

I have not listed every stage, only the important ones and emphasised the waiting.  But essentially this what is entailed in a nutshell!

I hope it helps, I can pm a good lawyer in Murcia if you would like.

Good luck

Gillespie.

PS I suggest you avoid any English project managers, they are usually con-men and will be on 10-20% and usually go to ground when a problem occurs.

Hi Gillespie

I must thank you for you detailed comments and lists of things to consider/avoid! and I will be treading very carefully don't worry.

I have approached an architect who has quoted me:

Horararios Proyecto Basico y de ejucucion (70%)  6650.00e  (A)

Honorarios arquitecto direccion de obra (30%)      2850.00e  (B)

                                                                         totaling:   9500,00e  (C)

Forma De Pago: which is 1425.00 e for Adelanto Honorarios tecnicos (15%) and La entrega del proyecto visado  (70%) 5225.00e = 6650.00e  (A)

A la entrega del final de obra (Resto)   2850.00e  (B)

Honorarios arquitecto direccion de obra (30%)    totaling:   9500,00e    (C)

Not including IVA of course!

I am just in the process of trying to find out exactly what all this is and what I am getting for my money, considering I haven't even got a project yet I think this is rather excessive.

We were considering a build size around 200 sq metres, and have also been told we need the ground testing and the services of a technical architect to ensure health and safety on the site otherwise we will not get the licence.

What are your thoughts and/or experiences, can you recommend any architects that speak english? I do think we have a long hard exercise ahead of us!

Many thanks for any assistance  

Maggy

Hi Maggy,

I think this is where the brave heart bit comes in to play.  When you look at the costs you have shown below (they seem on the reasonable side to me BTW)  Then you have to decide if you want to spend this kind of money with risk of refusal still attached.

I have pm´d a useful lawyer to you who speaks English. He has used a couple of architects for some of my clients and all went well if a little slowly.

The breakdown of the estimate is quite normal and your lawyer would be able to explain better than I about each individual fee. 

I guess the lawyer is your next step, as they will be honest with you as to wether it´s worth persuing the land purchase.  They need to be pretty sure about the build size before you commit.  An architect with good relations with the town hall in the area is a must as they usually know how the planning department works and probably have useful contacts there. 

Regarding the ground testing etc. this is new regulations and will be required for your build guarantee, and also for the insurance during construction.

It will be a huge undertaking and you are right to be very cautious.

Good luck either way and keep us informed.

Gillespie 

Hi everyone,  will keep you all posted,  just in the process of getting some more quotes in for architects and looking at builders etc, problems with the boundries at the moment and until this is resolved we cannot go any further.

Thanks for the lawyer details Gillespie.

Maggy

Hey Gillespie

Are you trying to tell people what little you have??

Going to the Notary next week to sign, glad we used a solicitor, apparantley things are just not what they seem in Spain are they? Our solicitor is insisting that we do everything by the book, and more, to cover every aspect.

It has cost us a little more on the fees but beleive me it will be worth it to sleep at night. Even though you do all the research you can, it  pays to take legal advice in the country you are buying in!

Good luck, Maggy. One little bit of advice from a layman (no lawyer will give you this tip, for any amount of money) :

Take a bottle of water with you to the notary. It's getting hot here now, offices can be stuffy places, you will almost certainly spend far longer there than you expect to, and nerves will no doubt be strained, and nobody will offer you a drink!