Recovering community fees thread

I have been looking for a few days now for the thread where a lawyer was offering to retrieve unpaid community fees using the UK legal system. I can't find it with the EOS search, so does anyone happen to know where it is or what the outcomes were of the trial cases? I am assuming they weren't successful as otherwise the good news would have been plastered all over the forum.

Mark

Probably he was using the 'European order for payment procedure: Regulation 1896/2006'   or    the 'European Small Claims Procedure: Regulation 861/2007'

That looks too easy!! Had a good read and it looks pretty straightforward for debts under €2000. Could save a lot in legal fees!!

Mark

Mark

Is this what you are looking for.

http://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-1455p1onddk-.htm

Its gone very quiet regarding results!

That was the one, how on earth did you find that? I see Roberto was the last one to comment back in April, as you say, very quiet after all the hype.

Mark

Mark

Regarding legal fees in action for community arrears recovery section 21 (6) of the Commonhold Act 49/1960 provides

 'Where in the initial application of the order of payment procedure the professional services of lawyer and legal proxy are used to claim sums due to the commonhold, the debtor shall pay, subject in any case to the limits set forth in rule 394 (3) of the Civil Procedure Rules, the fees incurred as a result of their intervention, irrespective of whether the debtor satisfied the payment requested or did not appear in court. In those cases where there is opposition, the general provisions regarding legal costs shall be followed. However, should the creditor’s claim be fully upheld, it should be included the lawyer’s and legal proxy’s fees, even where their intervention was not legally compulsory'.

This message was last edited by spanishsolicitor on 20/09/2009.

As this is an issue affecting many communities it is useful to keep it going and surprising there has been no updates from the earlier claims made.

Here is another alternative put forward by Maria in one of her earlier blogs, I wonder if anyone has attempted this approach.

Legal tip 125. Community problems solved in 25 days
18 August 2009 @ 10:25

Nearly 188,000 communities of owners in Spain, equivalent to 15% of the total, have one or more payment defaulters, and the number of arrears continues to grow due to the current economic climate.

Hi

I think you might be referring to the 'Community charges... non-payers... direct action?'  It's within the  'Running a Community' forum.

N.B.  I can't include a link as I need to have made "at least 10 posts..." so I hope you find it.

Regards

Sarah

Sorry if I've confused, my previous post was in response to Marksfish post of 20 Sept.

Sarah

One of the problems with collecting community fees and in taking legal action against non payers IS FINDING OUT WHERE THEY LIVE if they are not resident in their home where the fees are owed.

We have many owners who have not paid for years and because our administrator has not been informed either by the owner or their lawyer of their home address somewhere else in the world, we are unable to serve notice on them untill a whole load of searches & enquiries have been made by various police & court proceedings.

it's a nightmare & owners who do pay are subsidizing those who don't. only 60% of our owners are paying their community fees.

Willow:

Ths solution to your problem is offered in the Horizontal Property Act, provision 9h:

It is an obligation of every owner: "To inform  the person acting as community secretary, by whatever means, that enables him/her to keep record of receipt,  the address in Spain for the purposes of summonses and notices of any kind relating to the community. In the absence of this communication it  is deemed to  be considered the address for summonses and notifications the flat or premises belonging to the community, having  full legal effect  every communication delivered to the occupant thereof

If a summons or notice is tried to owner and was impossible to practice in place prevented in the preceding paragraph, the said copmmunication will be made by placing the corresponding communication on the  bulletin board in the community, or in a prominent general use authorized place ,  with express mention of the date and reasons why it is appropriate to us this form of notification, signed by the person acting as secretary of the community, with the approval of the president. Notification practiced in this way will have  full legal effect within three calendar days.
 

Hope this helps!

Maria

Dear Willow.

What Maria has said is correct and for this reason I would like to make an addition. I am sure that most owners are not aware of this proceedure. Usually this is something that is not mentioned at the time of purchase. We need to change the system. At the signing of the purchase at the notary, the lawyers and notaries are obliged to have in their possesion the certificate from the community to say that all communities are paid. If not this can with the agreement of both parties be deducted from the cost of the property. As with no survey needed on properties or searches as in the UK the onus is on the buyer to know about things like internal laws and decesions made at community meetings also rules regarding absent owners. Any absent owner should leave an address besides the address of their Spanish property, where all correspondence should be sent.  Buyers should also be advised by someone as to the rules reference the community. Remember  a lawyer only needs to know that the utility bills and community fees, IBI etc are paid. The lawyer and the notary will look at the nota simple provided on the purchase date and the moment of signing in the notary to see that the property has not incurred charges and that the vendor is still the legal owner. Not much more.  The case is NOT as in the UK and no further searches need be done unless you specifically ask your lawyer.

For this reason problems can arise after purchase. eg: A road to be built across your land etc. This subject is much more involved and we would almost need a book on the subject to stop all the problems that many experience after they have bought their home.

Dear Spanish solicitor. I think you misread my comment I said that I wished to make an addition. The addition referred to the problems of contacting debters and the reasons why. I would think that the information provided would assist even Spanish lawyers, to help make some changes to a system here that would make purchasing properties here easier and not so problematic. This would also help us to gain a new confidence in the Spanish property market. I am well aware that we are in Spain but as the majority of purchasers of property in Spain has been by non Spanish, that we should try to accomodate them more and explain the diffierence in the system here. It may mean a little more work for you guys but I am sure that you are willing and capable. I am assisted by many "Spanish lawyers" who are also good friends and highly respected. I answer in layman terms as I find lots of numbers and laws can be confusing to explain a simple proceedure.

Pero te agradezco la información.

Saludos cordiales.

 Sorry I did not mean to make the font so large. tried to edit and ended up with 2 posts. And now I cannot undue it.
Please accept my apologies 

This message was last edited by myra cecilia on 26/09/2009.

Hi all,

Please accept my apologies for not posting sooner given as is said "my earlier claims".

I can inform everybody that i am representing communities from Alicante right the way down to Puerto Ducquesa. I am involved with numerous individual communities and also receive instructions from a number of Administrators.

So how is it going? Very well. There has been success through the court but perhaps even more importantly I have had huge success from my initial letters and follow up calls.

A large amount of debts has already been collected and we have a vast majority of debtors on payment plans, generally spread over nine months and running alongside their fees as they fall due.

Have a look at the website - www.communityfees.com

I am more than happy to answer any questions, meet up with people or indeed provide reference details.

My silence was not from a lack of progress. I simply failed to keep this thread updated and for that i apologise.

I hope to hear from communities who are having debt problems and it would seem i can help.

Kind regards,

Steve

Hello Steve. I understand the need to collect community fees from people who refuse to pay. I also deal with communities but I am pleased to say that I do not have the task you have. I only ask one thing of your company. Compassion for the property owners who are losing their homes and secondly possibly going to be chased to the UK to have everything stripped from them there. This was not possible before and I wonder if in the end you will also help the banks by leading them to your countrymen in Britain. I say this because I deal with owners suffering unscrupulous administrators and presidents. (on some urbanizations) who are blatantly robbing the owners by high fees that are being pocketed. There are many such cases and I am sure that you are aware of this. I hope that for you it’s not just business and you are aware of the cant pay, won’t pay, situation.  With so much corruption in a lot of communities I hope I can prick your conscience. Because really what you are is a debt collector.  As that is your trade will you firstly have the time to investigate what kind of community leaders you are dealing with and secondly have the conscience to refuse to collect for the corrupt ones and I assure you there are many of these.

Hi,

In what situation do you think we have met? I do not recall meeting you.

I own a property in Spain and  fully understand the financial and moral obligations owners face. I also understand the difficulty and animosity that is created by people burying their heads in the sand when assistance is available.

I note you term me a "debt collector". While that may be so, I balance my obligations from both sides and any query/complaint somebody has is investigated and dealt with in an appropriate fashion.

You talk of unscrupulous administrators and presidents. I can assure you that I offer an impartial service that addresses the needs of all. I do not and will not deal with people that I have concerns about.

I am sure there are far more owners out there concerned over the level of fees they are paying to subsidise those who make no efforts to pay and communities who cannot carry out essential maintenance on owners property's due to budgetary restrictions. The needs of one owner have to be balanced against another. My purpose is to strike the balance between all.

In reference to leading banks to my countrymen - any debtor, no matter who has instructed our services, community or banks alike, can be assured that our methods of recovery are fair and dealt with on a basis of fact and not opinion or rumour. We have no interest in persucuting individuals for money that is not lawfully owed.

I would be happy to discuss any queries you have in relation to our service in more detail should you wish to do so.

Regards,

Steve

Hello Steve. The one thing I do appreciate about your website is that you have a section where genuine debtors can discuss their case.  but i still wish to voice my concern. Is the photo of the chap with his eyes hidden on your home page supposed to be menacing.  Why do you not put up someone in his place with an approachable smile.  I understand that you are saying that you will only work for decent administrators and presidents. You also need to be realistic. To investigate communities and to find the truth can be a full time job. I do not believe that you will have the time to do this. I work debtors and owners who are trying to get justice in their communities. There is a system in place here for taking the debtor to court and recover the debts. Owners will often try to find a way to pay before this happens. You say you have a home here. Would it not make you more transparent to also have an office here. I  am also of the belief that all forum members should fill in their profile. Yes communities that have debts need to collect but  I repeat we are in Spain and there is a system here to do this. I am sorry that I cannot wish you luck in your venture. I to get involved with many owners which as in the UK have found themselves in arrears with their mortgage. I find solutions for them and do not charge hefty fees but assist them as members of my office. If you wish to look at an example of this please visit my website and go to the testimonials page.  I have aired my views and I thank you for giving me the opportunity of doing so.

This message was last edited by myra cecilia on 13/10/2009.