Any way of getting a MOT in spain, or equivalent.

Don't want to get into a long debate about this problem , but this is the answer I recieved from

pnld@westyorkshire.pnn.police.uk

Thank you for getting back to us regarding this matter.  Having spoken with a colleague who is experienced in these matters, we can confirm the following:

You may drive the vehicle back to the UK providing that you pre-book an MOT appointment at a garage in the UK before you travel.  We would advise that the garage is close to the port, as you will be aware that if the vehicle has any defects that you may be unaware of, these may constitute offences in their own right, such defects include defective tyres, brakes, lights, steering, horns etc.

Please accept our apologies for any confusion that our previous answer may have caused and trust that this will not deter you from using the service in the future.

Hope it helps

I agree with your comments about driving to a pre arranged MOT. However, is it not stretching a point to drive over a thousand miles without one? Are we assuming that they are getting to the car in Spain and not using it and driving straight back to the UK. Don't think I fancy discussing the point with a Sapanish policeman on the edge of the road. I think I would get the insurance company to agree that this is OK. As mentioned before most insurance companies only cover the car abroad for three months. What is the situation with their insurance company? Proably find the insurance is not valid.

SAGA is one UK insurance company that gives a 365 Green card . I believe there may be others.

You may drive the vehicle back to the UK providing that you pre-book an MOT appointment at a garage in the UK before you travel.  We would advise that the garage is close to the port, as you will be aware that if the vehicle has any defects that you may be unaware of, these may constitute offences in their own right, such defects include defective tyres, brakes, lights, steering, horns etc.

Yes you are correct, you can drive it to a pre-arranged MOT station, as I have said before in a similar post a week or two ago this is the grey area with the UK mot's, they, the ministry, prefer / suggest that you only drive to the closest mot station via the shortest unbroken route,  if you did drive from Scotland to Cornwall to get a mot and got stopped by the police nothing much can happen if the car is road worthy,  the UK police cant do much about it, even though they don't like this idea,  but as of yet no straight foreword law exist's, so cant be broken.

How the Spanish police would view this if you were stopped in Spain I have no idea, probably just tell to you to clear of perhaps.

Its wise to remember one thing though, when you do get to the UK port and you have booked the car into the nearest mot station, should the car fail the test and you don't want that mot station / garage to repair it, for what ever reasons, how you going to drive a known mot failed car anywhere?

No insurance company can give you permission to drive your car on the road with no UK mot, because it's nothing to do with any insurance company, and should they do so they would be assisting you in breaking the law, the UK mot's are solely governed by Vosa and the ministry, as far as I am aware even Vosa or the ministry can not give you permission to drive your car on any UK Road with no UK mot.

And don't even ask them just in case they ask for your reg number, and you give it over,  and then put a red flag against it.

Baz, are you saying that the advice , given with an apology for  a previous incorrect statement , given by the Yorkshire Traffic Police is WRONG.Your car's MOT only show's that the car PASSED it's MOT on that date.The offence is one of not having a valid MOT or that the vehicle has any defects that you may be unaware of, these may constitute offences in their own right, such defects include defective tyres, brakes, lights, steering, horns etc.

You could have your car mot'd on the 1st of February but fail another test on the 2nd February  [ however if you do not have the test on the 2nd February your Mot is still valid hence the highlighted statement above.

Hi Loramos.

No I am not saying any advice is wrong, when it was asked of the police if you can drive on a road with NO  UK mot I bet the answer and advice only applied to driving a car on the UK roads with NO MOT to a UK mot station, I would bet the English cops, where ever, don't give a dam what you do in Spain with your car and probably don't even know the ITV law in Spain.

Yes, your correct about the mot, it really does only last for 24 hours, and it is up to the owner to keep it up to scratch for the remaining period of the 12 months, suffice to say the mot has to have some length to it.

No offence has been committed in connection with the mot if your car is found to have bald tyres a month later, separate roadworthy issue.

Baz, I explained to the Police that my car 's mot would expire approx 2 weeks before I would be returning to the UK. Their reply was as posted. They were very helpful and appeared fully conversant with both UK and European RT acts and their website is excellant. But as we all know all laws are subject to the individual police man's knowledge and interpretation.I,m happy to take their advice and drive back , having prebooked an MOT.

Loramos.

Yes, now I suspect they did tell you that, just hope that if you do get stopped in Spain with no proof of driving a roadworthy car the Spanish copper is fully understanding of the fact that UK cops can override the Spanish laws of driving on Spains roads with no ITV or UK MOT even though it's booked in a thousand plus miles away.

I did also mention if a person did get stopped the cops would probably just say clear of.

Baz

Surely the point is "The car IS road legal according to the laws of the country in which it is registered". This is how all road legal UK cars are allowed to be driven in Europe[ 180 day rule not withstanding].As I said not all [ if any Trafico's] are aware of this.

To the best of ny knowledge there has never been a prosecution of a non Spanish registered car that has fully  complied with the Road Traffic act in the country which it is registered with.If it is Road Legal in it's own country it is allowed to be driven in Europe.

Surely the point is "The car IS road legal according to the laws of the country in which it is registered". This is how all road legal UK cars are allowed to be driven in Europe[ 180 day rule not withstanding].As I said not all [ if any Trafico's] are aware of this.

To the best of ny knowledge there has never been a prosecution of a non Spanish registered car that has fully  complied with the Road Traffic act in the country which it is registered with.If it is Road Legal in it's own country it is allowed to be driven in Europe.

I think I have missed something here along the way, I have said it's illegal to drive a car in the UK with no mot, I have said you can drive a car in the UK with no mot only to a mot testing station. I did say I think it has to be illegal to drive in Spain with no UK mot as the car is now illegal.

As I understand it you are driving a car in Spain with no legal UK mot on it so their-fore you're driving in Spain illegally, so just because you booked your car into a UK testing station are you saying your now 100 per-cent legal to drive in, and through Spain just because you booked it in the UK?

The UK mot rules also remind anyone that they like you to go to the  nearest testing station in an unbroken preferable shortest journey...Remember though I did say this is a very grey area.

I have also said that I don't know to much about driving a UK car in Spain with no UK mot in regards insurance, which could become void.

It is to be said that should you take your car to another country its up to the driver to make sure the car conforms to any legal requirements of the host country, its up to the driver to make sure that all documents are in date for the duration of the stay.

I have no doubt that no prosecution's have taken place as you say, due to what I said, when stopped the Spanish cops might prefer to say "Shove of" rather then go through paperwork that they don't understand.

Good luck with it, chances are you will be able to drive back with no problems.

Sorry Baz but you are incorrect.If the car is Road legal in the UK it is allowed to drive legally in Europe. Re your comment " its up to the driver to make sure the car conforms to any legal requirements of the host country" most UK registered cars have two rear reversing lights and one fog light.|In Spain only one reversing light is permitted and the fog lamp must be on the left rear side of the car BUT because the UK car is Road Legal in the UK it is allowed to use European roads

This is the crux of the promblem .Two law abidings citizens trying to comply with the law BUT the law can be interpretated differently .Maybe that's why god allowed solicitors to inhabit the planet , but that's for another discussion.

All the best

loramos

I think you will find that as this post is all about the UK mot, the legal requirements I mentioned are to do with UK Road tax, UK insurance and UK mot. 

The light issue does not make the car road legal, the correct documentation...And being of roadworthy condition is what makes the car road legal, these are only conformities and model changes for different models of cars required for the different countries, as in what one country likes, another don't like, if every car had to change everything to be legal to drive overseas, no one would go anywhere.

The point is being missed here, the car is not legal in Spain with no UK mot...…Booking it in the UK might make it legal to drive through Spain, to a mot station in the UK, and I say might very lightly because I also did say on this point I wasn't to sure. 

 This is a letter from DVLA which I have just come upon in my files.

It appears to clarify   (1)  that the DVLC have no jurisdiction on vehicles being driven in a foreign country.  (road tax. MOT  etc)

And,   (2)  that one can drive a vehicle without an MOT to a test Centre for a pre-arranged test.  It does not say within any particular distance from the port of entry as it can be anywhere in UK. (Please note:  there is no grey area about this, it is crystal clear).

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency

Customer Enquiries Group C2

Longview Road Swansea SA99 1BL

Telephone 01792 783653

Fax         01792 782793

GTN       1213 3653 Email

Web Site              http://www.dvla.gov.uk

Minicom              01792 782756

15 April 2002

Thank you for your fax of 11 April 2002.

I can confirm that the correct name for road tax is vehicle excise licence and that a vehicle does not need a licence if only used on a private estate.

Regarding a UK registered vehicle being used in Spain. There is nothing within British Law which governs the use of a motor vehicle in a foreign country. However, there are International Circulation Agreements on Exemptions within the European Community in respect of vehicles, which are temporarily imported into one Member State from another. Broadly speaking, the main principle is that a vehicle which is properly registered and tax paid in its home country should be exempt from the relevant taxes of the host country during a temporary stay. It cannot be anticipated what action, if any, the authorities of the host country might take upon a visiting British vehicle which is not displaying a valid excise licence. Keepers would be committing an offence when they return to Great Britain as soon as they drive off the ferry with an unlicensed vehicle, unless they are proceeding to a pre-arranged MOT test.

Yours sincerely

Customer Enquiries Vehicles C2

 Y NICHOLAS (MRS)^{' I}

This message was last edited by johnzx on 01/02/2014.

VELASCO LAWYERS...…7th paragraph down.

I think Baz means the 7th Paragraph at :-

    http://www.velascolawyers.com/en/motor-and-marine-law/80-itv-test-for-cars-and-vehicles-in-spain.html

 The info there is not 100% correct according to Guardia Civil I have spoken to, but as we know in Spain, if you ask enough experts you can usually get the answer which you want !

Of course the Lawyers are wrong...Wonder how I knew you would say that.

I think I owe an apologia here because when I mentioned "Grey Area,"  and it was me that has mentioned this Grey Area more then once, I didn't mean as in coloured Grey Area on a UK mot certificate, that must have been confusing for you.

What I did mean by "Grey Area" is......As we know, the car is a UK registered car therefore to comply with UK regulations all three items have to be in place, most know which three I am meaning.

To drive a UK registered car through Spain with no UK mot is illegal, but more then likely if you did drive said car and got stopped by the Spanish police....Chances are they would say..."Shove of" reasons being, I explained in my earlier post.  Mentioned also a couple of times I wasn't to sure of the law on this in Spain.

So now you drive the car back to the UK through Spain with no UK mot with no hassle at all, and you have booked the car into the nearest UK mot station, never did dispute this fact either.

I made mention of the "Gray Area" which as has been pointed out,  doesn't exist, of course it doesn't, thats why it's called a "Grey Area".

Why do you need a mot? Two reasons I can think of...(1) because the UK law says so, and (2) it's one way of telling if a car is roadworthy,  for 24 hours only?

Your in Scotland, and you book your car into your home town for its mot in Cornwall, as we have been told it's quite legal to do this because no mention of having to be near to any mot station for this test.

Presume you get stopped in one of the camera roadside checks and the copper ask's "Why no mot sir", you explain why, he thinks "Rather a long way to go, lets look this car over to see if it can do this length of journey" and finds something he is not to sure of, he ask's the ministry what to do, they say get the car of the road, and get it to us, because they have the final say who drives what, on any UK Road.

You explain you haven't broken any law..(You haven't)...but of course you don't know its road legal in the "Eyes" of the law....Because you have no UK mot, NO MOT "Why not?" you then explain about the long distance and you can take it to any pre-arranged mot...

Hence "The Grey Area" Because no-one knows for sure what to do in this case. Other then the ministry like it to be an unbroken journey using the shortest route...…THEY JUST HAVEN'T PUT IT INTO LAW YET... better to be safe then sorry. Of the road you go on any excuse.

It's difficult to understand why any sane person would think that the DVLC-A would have jurisdiction on a UK car in any foreign country, I thought that country's police had that, not an office in the UK that issued UK tax disc's and UK registration documents, plus many other documents.

I hope this will not upset you too much Baz, but there is no question, whatsoever, that one can legally drive in the UK (as the DVLC say) to an MOT appointment no matter where it is, so long as it is by the shortest (reasonably so) route.   The police do know that Baz I can assure you. So anything you say about that is not ‘grey’ but a ‘red herring’ !

Following your logic that the car must be legal in the UK to be able to drive it in another country, it could be argued in law that a car being driven through Spain and France to an appointment in UK,  might well be legal, based on the fact that it would be legal in those conditions in UK.  Of course should the vehicle be unroadworthy, then it cannot be legally driven anywhere and would require a grua to take it to the test.

 hope this will not upset you too much Baz,

Nothing upsets me John, right or wrong, you or anyone else....Nothing.

but there is no question whatsoever, that one can legally drive in the UK (as the DVLC say) to an MOT appointment no matter where it is, so long as it is by the shortest (reasonably so) route.

And all along I have said you are supposed to drive to a pre-arranged mot by the shortest route.  

The police do know that Baz I can assure you. So anything you say about that is not ‘grey’ but a ‘red herring’

Of course the cops know this, the "Grey Area" is in the fact that, they can, if they so choose to..DO.. someone for taking the longest rout?  even the Ministry cant comment to strongly on this, Vosa the same, they don't like it,  but until it becomes law it's just so happens to be known as "The Grey Area"  of this distance to mot station thing,  so they say to the cops "If..IF they should enquire" it's your choice.

I said with no UK mot on a UK registered car being driven through Spain should you have an accident your insurance company might be within "it's rights, and the law,  to say "You're not covered" or in the least third party only so you could lose a whole lot.

A Red Herring is when you throw something into the plot to distract from the truth, you know this..Cops do it all the time.

Next time when Vosa, or the Ministry do a check, or visit "MY UK MOT STATION," and garage that I own...Yes JOHNZX I actually do own a MOT STATION with a Car Workshop attached, I shall be telling them that this "Grey Area" concerning the shortest distance they talk of,  is crap...Because Johnzx said so.

Noted your letter to the DVLA is 12 years out of date, have been a good few hundred new rules and changes come in since then.

Thanks Baz, finally we know your area of expertise, you own a garage authorized to carry out MOTs.