Community problems

 There is no restriction on the number of proxy votes any owner can hold.

The holder, plus the proxy owners votes they hold, must be up to date with their community fees, if not, they can't vote.

What we have in our community is this: Any proxy votes are sent to the Administrator with their personal vote. The holder of their proxy can only vote at the meeting on their behalf on any vote AT THE MEETING.

This restricts the person holding proxy votes, so they cannot vote for agenda items in which ever way they personally would choose.

This is a very fair system

Hope this all makes sense!

To Fibbyuk:

It still means that the person with proxys can vote (at the meeting of course) as they see fit as they legally represent that person. I cannot see how it will restrict them from voting.  You are right there are no restriction as to how many proxys a person can hold.  Basically, if you want something passed you have to get as many members to support you.

It is not easy as some folks tend not to want to get involved and others just love to complain after the AGM (not attending or giving anyone their proxy).  If you want to make your community work you have to work hard to encourage members to participate in community decisions for example:  encourage good community spirits by organising social events, making a point to communicate information through e-mail or community web sites.

Explain community issues to members as it all affects everyone within the community.  Nothing works in isolation.  It is a full time task and not very rewarding at times or so it may seem.  However, when members come together for the better, it is all worth it.  Our apartments are our investments, so by actively participating in community issues we are not just looking after the community but also ourselves.

 Hi meijoo

I thought my post looked a bit muddled

I will try to explain better......................

This is how we vote in our Community:

Voting papers sent out with agenda

People vote on the agenda items, using the voting paper and return it to the Administrator.

They then give their proxy to another person who is attending the meeting.

This ONLY entitles the person given proxy, to vote on any issues brought up at that meeting. Using the proxy vote to decide on their behalf which way to vote.

They cannot change the paper vote in anyway...........

This is what I meant about restricting the person who is given proxy votes.

Your Community should take a vote for this system for the future. It is very fair and votes cannot be manipulated.

Hope this makes sense now!

Hi FibbyUK,

It is a good idea however, the person with your proxy is legally your representative during the course of the AGM.  How legal is the paper vote, in the eyes of the law, here in spain?  Could the opposition declare it null and void?  I remember when we removed our administrator (the developers), they were trying to find every single loop hole to declare the meeting null and void. I had to be extreemly careful not to give them any opportunity to do so.

From experience, votes are counted by the show of hands during the course of the AGM. So if I show my hands to vote on a particular item on the agenda, the proxys I have will be included in the number of votes.  I think that your suggestion is by far the fairer however, I wonder how legal it is when push comes to shove.

Cheers.

 Hi

Our Community used to operate in the way you describe, however, we voted in to use the voting paper system for fairness and it got a resounding "yes"

Our Administrator collates the paper votes and adds them to the show of hands.

I would assume that this is perfectly legal as we, as a Community, have voted into into our constitutional rules.

Our Adminstrator would have advised our Presdiente otherwise if this was not legal.

Check with your Administrator, he/she should know.

Kind regards,

Will check with them, thanks for sharing that.  Regards.

thank's for that folk's, i know out dificult it is to get some point's over in writing, so to speak, but the one point i mean, is that the one proxy holder vote's on behalf , as you say, the proxy's he hold's, but they have gave him his choice or trust in whatever he feel's that's right, so, at the end of the day, he can overturn any decision that the rest of our community might vote on, as, of course he has the majority, again, in our case, 40 proxy's, so the rest don't get a say, it could be a possibility that some of the proxy "sender's" would not agree when their holder has cast a vote on their behalf, then, of course, it's to late, so, that's why i asked if there was any restriction's as to how many one owner can hold, and i feel there should be, let's say no more than ten. regard's     

 I understand entirely what you are saying Bluefox.

This is exactly why our Community voted our system in.

But, unless you change your Community rules, there is NO LIMIT to the amount of proxy votes any one member can hold, or how they use those votes.

In fact, it is also law that the holder of the proxy vote, does not even have to own in the Community. They could be a friend, renter, associate, anyone!

Scary isn't it!

Get you suggestion in to change the proxy voting system, get is passed, it's the only way to combat this.

Kind regards,

hiya folk's, yesssssssss ! it's me again, this time, could anyone tell me........is there any time scale on receiving the minute's of an a/egm, it was mentioned that within 10 day's but i can't find anywhere that state's that. we have a new admin. and they tell us that the delay has to do with some document called a "notas simples" not sure on the spelling, but can't find anything on that either, anyone out there that could explain ? thank's a mill again. regard's bluefox.   

forgot to say, we had an egm 5ish wks ago, as yet no minute's. regard's

i guess no one has heard of this document then !

A nota simple is usually the information document on a property provided by the land registry, to check if a property has any debts registered against it etc. when buying. In this particular context, I just think nobody is sure what it is your admin is referring to.

thank's a mill roberto, will try to explain best i can, we got a new admin. co. nov.09 after some prob's we had on our complex, six wks ago we had an e.g.m. where it's alleged that certain thing's were voted on, i was at that meet, but don't recall many of the subject's voted for, so, many owner's that could'nt attend are now calling for a copy of the minutes so they can see exactly what went on. not to sure about this one, but apperantly they have to be produced within ten day's of of any meeting called, but to date we have nothing. now the new admin. tell's us that the hold - up is to do with this document  "nota simpla" . i understand what you say, that this document is to do with at the time of purchace (never knew it's name) but to have to go thru' the same procedure everytime there's a meeting sound's abit iffy, sound's to me they're stalling for time for some reason, what you reckon ? thank's again. regard's b f  

It's a nice idea re. having AGM or EGM minutes ready in 10 days but reality is not like that!!

Your minutes in Spanish may be ready within that timescale ( the only ones which are necessary according to Spanish Law ) but if you are English or need another language then it will take time to get them translated.

Section 19.3 of the Horizontal Law seems to confirm what you say about the 10 day rule; I can see no reason at all why this shouldn't be possible, the minutes only record what took place in the meeting, so cannot justifiably be delayed for any reason I can think of.

19.3 "The president and the secretary shall sign the minutes at the end of the meeting or within the following ten days. Once the minutes are signed, the resolutions shall be in force, unless otherwise provided by law".

I'm afraid I still don't understand what a nota simple would have to do with this. Is there maybe a dispute about ownership of one of the properties?

thank's for that roberto & k s, av'nt a clue what the reason is, as far as i know there's no prob's over any property, they're telling us that every owner has to be checked with this "nota simpla" to prove we are the rightful owner, and this need's to be done before the minute's are sent out, spanish law they say, all sound's like bull.....dust to me. don't think the translation should be a prob. the admin. co. has an english girl working for them that has fluent spanish plus there's alway's google translate, anyway, we'll have to wait and see, but in the meantime i think some of the owner's are getting a little impatient & frustrated after 6 wks waiting including this one, many thank's again. regard's b f 

Sounds strange, but even if they are checking the legitimate owners of all the properties for some reason, this does not take weeks - a nota simple can be obtained online pretty quickly. (there is a charge for each nota simple, which obviously the admin will pass on to the community!)

Why don't you try to speak to the English girl to find out what's going on?

thank's again roberto for your reply, i will try just that as soon as i'm back next wk.. hopefully get some answer's, as the admin has been emailed by other owner's, but up to now no reply. regard's b f.

Hi Folks

Can anybody help please.  We are having a few problems on our development and we keep getting the words "well in Spain it is different".  We know it is different in Spain but we have to keep our sanity and try and action problems as they occur.  We have a President who lives in Spain but the other committee members live in England does anybody know if it is legal to call a committee meeting to be held in England even if the President says he cannot attend?

Jojan