So I have bought my Euro Millions ticket for this friday.....

The representative from Romanber has very honestly told us that the actual price they were paid our townhouse was just over 145,000 euros in our purchase contract. 
But we paid 219,000 plus IVA for it to Sunset. Apparently Sunset estates took the difference of 74000 euros as commission.
Romanber say that 145000 was the true valuation.
I don't know how many other people are in the same position. We were never shown the real amount we paid as our legal papers were only recently posted to us. But the amount of 145000 is quite clear in one of the documents. We aren't even sure whether we have in possession the full contract. Also we don't know if we bought from Sunset or Romanber. This may sound naive but we ddin't even know we could purchase direct from Romanber. A financial advisor friend referred us directly to Sunset.
Mark & I don't know what to do. We are now in a position of negative equity despite paying a massive deposit. We don't know how the mortgage valuation could have valued the price as just over 214,000 euros in December 07.
This makes the lack of lake-view and promised facilities and the dissappearing 8000 euros look like a much less of a problem now.
Mo & Rutger have been fitting our kitchen and it is nearly finished. Admittedly we have had to pay for installation again. But at least that is good news.
Also we are gathering furniture together so that we can transport it to Spain this month and then hopefully let the property out to retreive some fo our losses.
Also Romanber have been very good in trying to sort the problem out. They have been badly conned by Sunset estates too. But how can they help us retrieve the massive ammount we have now lost?
Any comments/ideas would be appreciated
Andrea & Mark

Hi Andrea.....It is expected that an estate agent charges a fee for their role in the process but the figure you quote is astronomical & seems have no relationship with the work undertaken.Sunset Estates were given/sold  the rights to sell the properties exclusively by the developer so you would have thought Romanber have some responibility.Had they not granted excusivity the prices would be at market rate you would have thought.We were told also that the purchase could only be made through Sunset....I have never seen Romanber selling direct.
 It is very dissapointing that the property  we placed a deposit on 18mts ago are now appear to be worth much less than we told back then.The whole point of off plan buying is that a good price is offerred in exchange for waiting for your property.I'm not familiar with Spanish regulatory institutions but there may be a case to involve such a body ??mallj.

Hi
When we went to the Romanber office to enquire about a purchase we were also told that Sunset were their sole agent and direct purchase was not possible. Romanber must have known what Sunset were up to, as their sole agent. Romanber now selling properties with incentives and discounts is rubbing salt in, as they are devaluaing our properties and making them harder to sell/compete into the bargain. I must look up the meaninng of 'reputable' again!
I understand people suggesting that we all become 'promoters' of the development to ensure it gets finished but it feels a bit like hostages helping the hostage takers.

regards

Inis

Dear all,
I understand how bitterly disappointed you must be feeling with a lot of the situations that you find yourselves in, (some worse than others) but from a personal point of view and nothing to do with defending the developer I feel there are a few points to be addressed.
Was there anybody at the time of signing their purchase contract that thought, hang on I am not happy I don't think this property is worth what I am paying for it?
Is there nobody out there that realises the current economic state Spain and a lot of the rest of the world is in at the moment?
Is your house in England worth the price it was in 2007?!
When you paid for your properties did you have an exchange rate of around 1.42 € to 1.00 sterling now you are looking at 1.26!
Markets dictate what anything is worth and we are very much in a buyers market and I can tell you now, supply has out weighed demand in this area for well over the last year. Yes constructors & developers continue to build as they are commited but the Spanish market is dead.
If you bought in Novo Arcos to make a quick buck I am afraid it has backfired just like in so many other parts of Spain and the world but if you invisaged yourselves enjoying your apartment or townhouse with a view to holiday, to let to friends & family and other holiday makers and golfers who will enjoy the wonderful town of Arcos and the beautiful surrounding areas then that is exactly what you should do.
If you can no longer afford it then I am very sorry but that is bad luck and the sign of the times we find ourselves in this current economical climate.
Novo Arcos in the long term will see good investment gains, I am sure.
I do hope I haven't come across as arrogant but I just wanted to try and put a small piece of realisim out there!

Hi
I understand the economic situation perfectly well and am ok with it. What we are not ok with is being lied to about the develoment,having money stolen and then the rush by all concerned to deny any knowledge of what was happening. For our part we are very happy with Arcos as a location and intend to keep our apartment for the long term  and enjoy it.
We have drawn a line under the other aspects

take care

inis

Romanber say that there is quite often a discrepancy between purchase contract and actual sales price because the price on the contract is reduced for transmission tax reasons. However, I don't fully understand where the missing 73000 euros went or when it went. I don't know at what stage Sunset estates received the money from us or what amount they received after this tax had been paid.

While none of us wanted to make a fast buck, none of us wanted to be in negative equity, despite paying massive deposits either. We bought for the long-term & thought the area was beautiful and still do but we want to know more about what has happened to our missing money. It can't just be ignored just because we are afraid of negative publicity for the development. Once it has all been explained and justified as due to economic factors, and not due to  any deception then we will draw a line under it. But unitl then we will want a lot of explanation for this.

Unfortunately because of family commitments we werent able to be there when our final contract was signed. We weren't aware that the properties were only worth circa 150,000. We trusted our solicitor, Sunset estates, Romanber, our mortgage arranger, valuation & all concerned. We knew there was talk of a downturn but after we had handed over 30 per cent deposit and legal fees upfront( circa 70,000 euros - more I think) it felt very unlikely by then that we could lose more than that sum due to global slowdown.

As for the economic downturn in the last year, as I have already said when our property was valued as circa 214,000 euros it has was actually the middle of December 2007. Economic factors would not explain such a loss of money in such a short time. Yes there is a property slowdown & prices have dropped nearly everywhere but not 50 per cent of the property valuation within 6 months of buying it.

regards

Andrea & Mark

Hi Inis & Andrea,

I did not make my points to upset you more than you already are.
I am glad you are going to enjoy Arcos & Novo Arcos Inis and Andrea.
I got involved in this becuase I can't stand what has happened to all of you
and I never want to see this happen again in this beautiful area I am so
passionate about. Romanber want to help people out as much as they
can but it seems to me that the real culprits are still swanning around
here in Spain and it doesn't seem like anyone really wants to go after
the brothers of Sunset, (at least not on this forum).
I am not sure they have actually done anything wrong when it comes to
having sold properties in regards to the prices people paid. Yes they 
mis sold and lied about lake views, swimming pools etc but when it comes
to prices, they advertised the properties at 199,000€  & 219,000€ and that
seems to be the prices people paid for them.  http://agentarcos.com/ArcosTownhousePrices.html
but they have stolen a lot of money it seems regarding kitchens, air-con, after-sales
etc and for them to go into liquidation, work out how many townhouses sold x 74,000 profit?
And add the apartments on top of that.
The only thing I would say Andrea is that 50% of 214,000 is 107,000 'Economic factors would not explain such a loss of money in such a short time. Yes there is a property slowdown & prices have dropped nearly everywhere but not 50 per cent of the property valuation within 6 months of buying it.'
And I have seen these town houses up for sale with 2 or 3 boards having the same private
telephone numbers on, so some people did try and make a fast buck!

Hi Spanish Sol,

Yes obviously I don't have the exact figures in front of me when I post to the site as it is the message I want to convey not statistics.  But when I said the property had lost 50 per cent of its value, I meant that the loss of 73000 plus is more than half the true value of the property now which according to Romanber is 145390. That isn't including IVA either as we actually paid 23800 euros.

regards

Andrea