This seems very expensive

We have just returned from a short trip to the development.  When we took a stroll around, we noticed that on of the swimming pools in Manzana 4 appears to have been filled in with soil and plants!!! 

Does anyone know why this has happened? 

We remember that ´´manzanapresident´´ the president of Mazana 4 used to read and post on this forum - if you are reading this or maybe if someone there knows him, it will be great to get some information from him directly. 

We also have some further questions for him and any owners there as we have been reading his old posts from last year when the ex-president was ´ousted´ at the AGM and wonder how things have been.  Did the new president reduce the community fees as promised?  Is this why the pool has been filled in?!

It is very strange to me that after 63 views of this thread, no-one has replied to the questions raised.  A swimming pool has been completely filled in with soil and plants without warning and yet not one word of possible explanation from anyone in Manzana4 and not a peep from all those who were writing on here to complain about there not being as many swimming pools on the development as they had hoped for in the first place! 

This is exactly the level of hypocrisy that is likely to be found in people moaning about the lack of a tennis court - I´ll place a pound to a penny that the very same people don´t even play tennis.

Dear Kenny e and james123

If you owned a property in manzana 4 you would be fully informed of our activities, you obvieously dont so can I politly ask you not to pass comment on something that has nothing to do with you. We will not be discussing anything on this forum with regard to our manzna.

Your comments prove to me that you two cannot back up anything you have ever said on this forum and the bank you recommended for mortgages is also untrue I have this in  writing.

So my advise is you both stop giving advise on this forum you now nothing! 

Fantastic - there IS life behind the West Bank style fencing of Manazana 4! 

From whom do you have what in writing?  Not sure which bank you refer to, but it´s clearly not the bank that I have my mortgage structure with and it can´t be the bank (different to mine) that a friend of mine completed with on Monday 28th May 2007 (yes, last Monday) for his apartment in Manzana 3 Bloque 7.

Why is Manzana 4´s activiities so confidential?  I believe there has been a representative from Manzana 4 at every AGM this year (including Amatistas Fase 1!) who has been trying to carry votes by proxy.  What is going on?  If you want to live on an introverted and seperated Manzana, why interfere with others?  Is there a secret Manzana 4 plan to make flowerpots out of all the pools in the development? 

Unfortunately ADT, it is your advice that is misleading readers of this forum, not mine and since the decision of somebody in Manzana 4 (I imagine it had to be the president there) has reduced our allocation of pools to 14 without any explanation, it raises many much more serious questions than those raised quite politely by james 123.

Proxy voters now have further reasons to be particularly cautious.  Thanks ADT for your very honest and inaccurate comments.

We have received a private message from manzanapresident (Manzana 4 president) stating that he is ´not prepared to answer any of our questions´.   This is a shame as we were looking forward to learning directly of how a change of presidency can affect a Manzana (for better or for worse) and him sharing his experience with the members of this forum.

ADT,  we are sorry that you are so angry and frustrated by our asking perfectly acceptable questions in an open forum for our development. 

We will be attending the AGM of Manzana 4.

ADT,

I ask politely, once again - from whom do you have what in writing please? 

I have had justified every single word I have ever written on this forum over and over again.  If you have something in writing that could be preventing completion or sale of an apartment and therefore the maturity and running of our urbanisation, please tell us what it is, as there could be grounds for legal proceedings to be taken against them.

If you are unable to support your post, as I suspect is actually the case (please note that handwritten letters signed by a ´Sr. Migel Mouse´ will not be accepted) then further serious questions will have to be raised, especially regarding the activities that you suggest have ´´nothing to do´´ with anyone else. 

I think the decisions in Manzana 4 actually do have a great deal to do with all of us, especially when one particular owner there carries votes by proxy (thankfully not many) to every other Manzana AGM that it might be humanly possible to interfere with.  Things like filling swimming pools in without notification can affect the decisions of potential purchasers (especially families) and therefore the property price and length of time a property stays on the market and so effects us all on La Reserva de Marbella. 

Several fundamental questions that may help owners in other Manzanas remain unanswered.  Why?  What is the hidden agenda there?

ADT / Madzanapresident,

It´s been hot in Marbella these past few days - are you busy fanning yourself with the letter you promised us you have, or have you been cooling your feet in your new flowerbed? 

The children must be so happy to be risking drowning in the adult pool - how exciting...

F AO James 123 and Kenny e

Sorry for the delay in replying I have been away from my computor until now.

It seems quite clear from your replies that you are less informed than I realised, no one is even interested in replying to your comments from our manzana. You both seem to thrive off dishing out bad feeling on this forum, especialy the sarcasm., We therefore would like to end the thread on this matter and rest our case.

I am far more informed than you may prefer - private messages have been very informative. 

However, trying to become more informed as to the secret antics in Manzana 4 is precisely the point of this thread!  I am only directing my comments to you and your Manzana directly and there are approximately 50 people reading each valid question and waiting for a far more satisfactory response from you to than the pathetic avoidance efforts you have made so far. 

To remind you:

• Why has the childrens pool been completely filled in with soil and plants?
• Have the community fees been reduced, stayed the same, or actually been increased significantly since a new president was elected?
• On what grounds does manzanapresident feel he is allowed to ignore the Horizontal Properties Act?
• Why does manzanapresident attempt to interfere with other Manzanas by attending their AGM´s, carrying a couple of votes by proxy and nominating presidents for those Manzanas sometimes against their wishes?
• You have said that you have a letter stating that banks are not granting mortgages on La Reserva de Marbella - where is it?
• Why are you constantly trying to avoid answering these questions?

Misinformed we may be, but then as only  manzanapresident / ADT  can give the answers that everyone reading this is waiting for, it is hardly surprising when your posts haven´t answered any of the points raised, now is it? 

I am sure you would very much prefer to end the thread on your terms of avoidance and ´rest your case´ (what case?) but I for one do not want my childrens pools filled in with plants just to save a few euros per year without good reason - reasons which are currently only known to yourself.  Answer the questions and we can all end the thread happy in the knowledge that there is no hidden agenda by the president in Manzana 4; it really is that simple.  What have you got to hide?

Now, to get back to the points raised by james 123 at the beginning of this thread, please answer the questions as informatively as you can.

Many thanks in advance.

P.S.  Don´t forget the letter - people may think you´re a dangerous liar.

P.P.S.  I will leave the thread alone for 7 days from today to give you plenty of time to get your information together, after which time we should rightly assume that you are unable to do so due to the fact that your posts have no foundations whatsoever and that therefore you are best avoided and your so-called ´advice´ be ignored at all costs forever.

Dear James and Kenny

May I ask  on what authority you have to demand answers to these questions, if you are so well informed then you should not have any trouble finding the information you require.

May I  recommend you both attend our AGM if you so desperatly require answers to the questions instead of  insulting people in this forum for which you are both very well qualified.

See you at the AGM

Again, no answers and no letter!  Basic questions and no answers.  What are you hiding?

Can you please at least let us know when the AGM will be, as when I tried to find out from the Administrator acting on behalf of the rest of the development (and initially for Madzana 4), I was informed that you have disposed of their services for reasons unknown?  I look forward to attending as it will be interesting to find out at the AGM exactly how the escalating community fees there have been spent.  Maybe you can show me the letter that you say you have then, as well?

The only people remotely insulted on this forum are those manipulative people with hidden agendas who post utter nonsense and lies.

ADT,

We have always been polite and did not expect to be agressively accused of insulting anybody.  We have sought to give correct information in all our posts.  We innocently posted an observation which we thought could be easily explained by someone in ´authority´ in Manzana 4 and raised just two questions as we remembered that the President there is a member of this forum.   You have suceeded only in raising deep suspicion regarding your personality and apparent  interests for the community that you represent as your posts are now clearly deliberately misleading to the reader.  If left unchallenged they could have been believed by some who rely on this forum for accurate information to help make life-changing decisions.

We have no authority at all.  We are just owners with an interest in enjoying the development as it was originally intended (including the pools).  We also recognise the importance of electing a president who is capable of answering just a small number of simple questions. 

We urge ALL owners giving votes by proxy at AGM´s to think very carefully before giving them away to anyone in a certain Manzana to play with.  It has been made very clear from this thread that some have (as yet) unclear intentions and are not to be trusted.

J&S

Hi pacheran,

Thank you for your interest in this very important and revealing thread.  The Horizontal Property Act is explained in depth in the links on the right hand side of this page.  The President of Manzana 4 would do well to read and adhere to them as legal action can be taken against anyone flouting them. 

Manzana AGM´s are held on an annual basis around the time of the anniversary of completion of the Manzana in question, so all Manzana AGM´s on our development are held on differing dates to each other.  Manzana 3 was completed in July 2006 and so it´s AGM is to be held around July 2007.  As AGM´s are held in part to reflect on the previous years spendings, a little time has to be allowed (usually within 4 weeks) for the Administrator to carry out their work and collate all invoices and expenditure accurately for analysis before setting an exact date.  It is only a legal obligation for the Administrator to notify an owner at the address in Spain.  Our Administrator also notifies by any registered e-mail address attached to the completed property. 

Unfortunately, some owners (including a certain president) are under the impression that  an AGM is the only opportunity of the year at which to raise as many questions as possible and so AGM´s tend to be filled with dozens of endless debates from a broken tile in a pool to how long a piece of string is.  This is NOT necessary as the Administrator does an excellent job of resolving such problems for all our Manzanas (except Manzana 4 who changed their Administrator for reasons unknown) every day of the year.

Please try to avoid the trap that certain people would like us to believe that AGM´s are biased towards the developer.  Each Manzana contains apartments which are represented by the relevant owner in terms of voting.  On the day each Manzana was officially completed, obviously the developer still technically owned 100% of the apartments because contracted owners were yet to complete, so a President, Vice-President, budgets etc. will have been appointed and set on our behalf to satisfy the legalities.  Within the first year, developer ownership percentage is reduced according to the number of people completing in that Manzana and budget estimate accuracy becomes clearer.  At the AGM, Presidency, budgets etc have to be agreed for the following year and voting is made for or against accordingly. 

Votes are recognised only by any owners whose Community Fees are paid up to date IN FULL before the AGM date - this is important to the budgets and thus the effective running of the Manzana (if an owner has not paid the Community Fees, why should they determine what is spent).  Contracted owners who are suing the developer also lose the right to vote as ownership technically lies then with the developer.  Owners who cannot attend the AGM can give their vote by proxy to any willing 3rd party (including the developer) who carries their vote for them IN THE EYES OF THE PROXY VOTER (as james 123 states below, be careful who you give your vote to if you value child safety, swimming pools or want a basic question answering!). 

This is where confusion lies and the negative rumours breed.  If a Manzana of 100 apartments has only 50 completed AND fully paid-up (Community Fee) owners, 50% of the vote then still legally belongs to the developer.  The more people complete and pay the Community Fees in full every quarter, the more money the Manzana has to budget with and the greater the shared voice of the Manzana can be heard in terms of voting. 

Presently, the development contains numerous apartments for which the developer is still liable, and whose Community Fees are being paid by the developer.  This scenario means that when a vote is cast in some Manzana AGM´s it may appear that the system is biased towards the developer who legally carries a large percentage of the vote.  This is not the case, because if the developer were to stop paying the Community Fees for all the apartments under it´s ownership, the development would crumble.  Unfortunately, where confusion as to the rules exists, certain people exploit for their own means and complain that the AGM is a farce.  Panic then sets in to replace the confusion and suddenly a President can be elected whose intelligence and objectives are unclear.

I hope that this helps and that I haven´t made the issue more confusing.  There are further examples that I can give regarding the legal and vote casting requirements which I can send by private message to anyone who contacts me, ADT inclusive.

Just picking up on the reference to voting powers at AGM.  My understanding is that votes are limited to those owners who have paid up to date with their community fees.

In the example quoted where I believe you state any unsold properties allow the developer to "vote" .  However, I understand that the developer makes no "contribution" to the community fees while the property is unsold (first time sales only).  Therefore, why should the developer be entitled to vote ?

Comments please.

Any owner of an apartment, whose community fees are paid to date, in full, will have their vote counted at the AGM.  Peñarroya are liable for a percentage of apartments across the development and because they are continuously paying the fees for them they can therefore lawfully have their votes counted in the relevant numbers.  They can also (and do) carry votes by proxy from other paid-up owners who are unable to attend the AGM and who have submitted the relevant form to the Administrator for Peñarroya to vote on their behalf.  It is important to note that votes by proxy can be given to another preferred owner as long as community fees are paid in full.

On a previous occasion I personally have already checked with the Administrator that all Peñarroyas fees, for one particular Manzana on which I own and on which votes have been taken, had been paid in full before the meeting and I was shown a highly comprehensive file of accounts, statements and cheque copies to prove as such.  It was also proven (without my asking) that these accounts are audited by a third party as required by law.

The only owners unable to have their votes counted at an AGM (by proxy or in person) are owners who have not paid the community fees. 

A full list of debtors names and amounts owed is supplied within the agenda for each AGM for each Manzana.  Each owner within that Manzana receives a copy of the agenda and hence the list.  Other reasons aside, this at least makes it easy for all to see who is and who isn´t allowed to vote.

James & Kenny

I have just picked up this thread.  The paddling pool not swimming pool was'nt filled in to save a few euros!  This action was agreed by the owners and yes we have saved on fees since the new president took over. OK.  I hope that satisfies your curiosity!

Hi scottiedog,

Thanks for your message (it appears we posted simultaneously).   Still not clear why filling in the safe, shallow childrens pool to leave only the deep adult pool was deemed a great idea.  Anyway, thanks for the information.  If you happen to know the answers to the several other questions raised, please do post back on here again soon.  I will be most interested to learn of the date for your AGM as I forecast it will be very well attended to establish the truth of the situation there directly.

Still no news regarding the imaginary letter from manzana4president (ADT).  Instead, I visited 5 banks in Marbella Centro today and ALL confirmed that they are still granting mortgages on LRdM subject to status.  I can send the names and contact details of the banks by private message if requested.

Dear kennye & James 123

Thankyou so much for eventually clarifing & admitting that every statement you have posted on eye on spain is the underhand workings of you know who. I refer to the thread & postings on Current situation.

I dont think anyone was ever fooled by your postings and why you seldom had any response to your statements, when people responded to you, you hit  back with insulting comments and then sent private messages with an even stronger content.

That is the reason I have not responded to your questions, NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ANYMORE.

GOODBYE  JAMES N KENNY FROM ALL AT EYE ON SPAIN !

I think everyone understands that you are trying to avoid the questions raised with more desperate lies. 

If people are no longer interested in what I write, it is because I am always having to repeat myself that the development IS recognised on the new PGOU, banks ARE granting mortgages there and people ARE completing every week and that one of the few people who refuse to see that this is the reality, is you.  There have been no underhand workings in my posts whatsoever, only factual and well-researched information from various sources; information of which it is clear that you are very afraid.

I admit I am tired of repeating myself and that people may be tired of my posts always being the same - always accurate, always positive and always the truth.