New or resale

bobaol            I agree offplan for some people is the only way to go if you need or have the time to wait . On our trip with Parador last we came up with the same situation regards the price,  we asked the builder the price when the rep from Parador was not around  same selling price i think they all must agree this  same price system work out the comm. they have to pay the agents,  that way most of the time no advantage to come in the back ( pity really) .   Not sure if thats a good idea PAYING THE AGENTS  you instalments i would think your lawer would be safer how does he see that system that seems not very  legal to me , some feedback on this subject could be helpful .      Rosi n

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Some very interesting posts here in the last couple of days. Shame there's no really juicy disaster stories of re-sales gone wrong, but maybe they'll come!

A couple of observations on other's posts:

Resales are ready straight away and will, therefore, be more expensive than buying "in the future". 

Not necessarily so any more. My understanding of, and I believe most people's attraction to, the off-plan idea, was that you could buy now, at today's prices, but pay later, i.e. 2 years time or so, when prices will have risen. So in effect, by the time you pay the final amount, you are paying "yesterday's" price. To buy a re-sale at that point, you would have to pay today's price. I think a large part of the reason for the slow down in off-plan sales is due to greedy developers trying to sell today at tomorrow's price. What I am seeing now in my area is off-plan property being offered at considerably higher prices than you need pay for a comparable second hand property available immediately. You have to ask "why"? What's the point?

Imagine buying and then finding a huge water/electric/telephone/community charge bill etc etc which hasn't been paid.

Of course I am aware that this kind of thing happens, but even without paying a lot of money to a lawyer to check these things out for you, this really shouldn't be any more of an issue than if you were buying a property in the UK. Surley it's just common sense to check all this out before completing? Ask for copies of the last water & electric bills, plus proof of payment, & make sure they are not estimated meter readings (rare, but not unknown). The seller should also produce a certificate from the town hall showing that there are no outstanding rates (IBI) bills to pay. He should also have a letter from the community to the same effect. Notaries expect to see these now. And of course, the notary will obtain details of the property from the Land Registry to make sure there are no debts registered against it.

Many resales have to be rewired because of sub-standard electrical wiring.  New regulations have tightened up on that (but please don't quote me, after all, this is Spain). 

I have recently bought a resale which I am renovating, and expected to re-wire anyway, but as a result have learnt all about the "new" regulations. They're not that new actually, it's just that Spain has only just decided to start applying them! Any new built property, as many will know, has to be issued with a "boletin" in order to get the electricity supply connected. What has recently come to my attention, is that in order to change the contract into the name of a new owner of any property now, there has to be a valid boletin, that is, not more than 5 years old. And apparently it is no longer sufficient (nor possible in fact) to simply change the billing details, so in order to be assured of a continued electrical supply without any future problems, if buying an older property, you would be well advised to ask if there is a valid boletin. If not, assume the worst, that the property will need re-wiring to meet current legislation, and use this to negotiate a lower price. Personally I believe it should be obligatory for a seller to produce a valid boletin, and also for estate agents to insist on there being one before listing a property for sale (I know Rixxy agrees with me!) Dodgy electrics scare the crap out of me - that's why I take this standpoint!

You get a 10 year guarantee with a new one.  Yes, it is supposed to carry on with a resale but I have read in the CB News where the builder has said the contract was only with the original buyer.  10 year guarantee out the window with a new buyer.

I wonder how many buyers of new property actaully have a written copy of said guarantee? How many know exactly what it covers? I think the guarantee is actually an insurance against structural defects during the first 10 years. The insurance should be on the building, regardless of who the individual owners within that building are. Any disputes with regards to this would probably be best taken up by the administrator (if part of a community).

If you decide to buy a resale, then you must ALWAYS check there is the first licence of occupation granted on that property.

Just another minor point regarding the theme of this thread - "re-sale" encompasses second hand property of any age, so we should not really only be discussing the pros & cons of buying a new built property off-plan or second hand. I realise that the focus of this website & forum is predominantly on new property, but never forget, despite the relentless construction of thousands of new homes particularly on the Costas, there are even more older properies out there to consider, so if you are considering a 20 or 30 year old apartment, I don't think you'll have much luck getting a copy of the LFO!

With resales you know the settlement problems and usually they have all been resolved. Communities run smoothly, yearly budgets are as low as they can be.

I love this one, Rixxy! Esp. the bit about communities running smoothly! Yearly budgets are as low as possible, whilst still allowing corrupt administrators & presidents to line their pockets. They are also as low as possible because no one wants to pay any more, but still expect everything to be maintained perfectly. Settlement may not be a worry on a 20 year old property, but there could be all sorts of other problems lurking which will be difficult to find out about before buying. Try getting a copy of the last AGM minutes to see what may come up inthe near future. And as Smiley found out:

I have bought a house which was valued and surveyed in the normal way and given a clean bill of health,

even if you have a survey carried out, and most people don't (only the smart ones like Smiley) there could still be unexpected surprises awaiting you.

That's all for now!

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Sorry, this went in twice cos my PC locked out on me.

This message was last edited by bobaol on 4/29/2007.

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No, don't read too much into the paying the agents bit.  It was my choice.  The builders had it set up to take it out of an account they set up for me but I didn't want to open another one as I already have an account.  In my naivety, I was just going to write out a cheque until it was pointed out how much Spanish banks charge for this simple transaction.  I simply transferred from my Spanish account to the agents who then paid the builders.  Sound complicated but it worked well.  Apart from the final payment, which I'm paying by bankers draught, it has all gone smoothly and I have receipts from the builder.  This was not a suggestion by the agents.

And, as far as I'm concerned, the longer they take to build the better as it gives me the time to sell my holiday home first.  As I said, depends on peoples' circumstances and this way suited me perfectly.

I know we hear about horror stories, on sites like this, on TV, in the press etc. but I would be interested to know how many purchases have gone through with no problems.  If the press is to be believed and there has been an average of 70,000 Brits buying each year in the last 7 years, there must be many, many Brits very happy with the way things have gone, not to mention the Scandinavians and other Europeans who have bought there.  And, of course, the Irish who are catching up quick. 

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Maybe you should look in the "Happy Spain Experiences" thread or whatever it's called. No, I've never looked in there either! Like most people, I prefer the disaster stories - they're much more fun!

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Many, many people are extremely happy with thier purchases, it tends to only be the unhappy ones wanting to complain - and rightly so - that bring problems out in the open.

For all the sales we have made, no one has had any complaint at all but equally none of the buggers has invited me to the housewarming party!!

Re the LFO - yes I agree a very old property will probably not have it and equally may not even be registered at notary - it is not compulsory for a property to be registered and if it has always been in the possession of the same person/family or bought and sold for cash, then it will have been done on a compraventa.

Only newer builds and properties bought on finance have to be registered at notary.

I didnt know about the boletins but my understanding is the lawyers sort this out. I recently bought a house (last october) The complex is 5 years old and should have an lfo - yes I got caught out but have actually made a calculated risk as I know it will be licensed (all units are occupied etc etc etc) Which will leave me with a property rising in value (got a good deal) and a lovely view of the fields out back.

Re commissions on off plan - well they used to be and in some cases are around the 15% mark and are included in the off plan price. If you go to a developer direct you may be able to negotiate a discount but if you go through an agent the agent will get paid - normally out of the 30 or 40% deposit you pay. It depends on the deal the agent has with the developer as sometimes the developers pay to agents before getting the money from the buyers! (larger agents can force this one, not so the smaller ones)

And lastly yes surveys are a bit hit and miss, but there are a couple of FRICS guys out here who may (would) have spotted the wall as they would have looked for it. My place is a simple townhouse and having worked on building sites many moons ago I am fortunate to have a fair idea of what to look for and where.

Have a good day everyone!

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Buying through an agent can often work out cheaper than buying from the developer.

Most agents these days offer "Cash Back" and also flight and accomodation refunds.  Developers don´t offer any discount in Costa Calida, as the agents would just desert them (quite rightly)

Agents spend thousands of Euro´s promoting projects for developers it would be un-ethical to then offer clients a lower price if they went direct.

I, as an agent will  not offer cash back, when a client buys new build through me I have 18 months of hard work to do, I earn whatever commission I get.  Developers like Polaris are trying to stop cash back deals but they will always be there from some of the less professional agents.

I will give clients a set of garden furniture if they have been good, or even a LCD TV, but that´s usually to say thanks for the business. 

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"I will give clients a set of garden furniture if they have been good, or even a LCD TV, but that´s usually to say thanks for the business." 

I've been good, honest! How come I never get to meet agents like you?

 

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MaggieB talking,as on the laptop I'm Mags59,

I have sent pm's to certain people ie estate agents etc, previous to me coming to Spain to find a property? Not received a reply from anyone! so far that is,but considering I am in Spain now!! and until Saturday, would be appreciated if I could find an honest estate agent that will find us a property??looking to Murcia,South Costas!

 

 

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I had the opposite effect when i contacted 3 or 4 agents yesterday to book appointments. I told them i was flyiing out Tuesday evening and would like to view as much as possible in the next three days.Two of the 4 agents i sort of know and the other two are ones i found on the internet. Gosh did it open a can of worms! as they are all linked using this infocasa system,they all know what areas i want to view in and some i did give specific properties i wanted to look at that had interested me from there website. They was all phoning me last night one after the other telling me which properties they are going to show me so not to go with another agent to view them.  Heres me trying to organize my own independent trip and arrange my own viewings etc but i can see it has its own problems.

I am going to have one day free on my trip and drive round all the areas i am interested in and see if i can find any vendors advertising there own properties for sale rather than through an agent, as i could do without all the grief of them all fighting over my business.Must be a sign of the times.

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Hi Samson!

Well, that just goes to show that an organised trip may be less hassle!

Your idea of looking for private sales may be good, but comes ith it's drawbacks I think.

Sometimes the agent will know the history of the property. It may have been on sale for years, with buyers dropping out because of problems.

At least with an agent, you can feel safer, well that's if they haven't got their claws into you.

Good luck!

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Alternatively find independant agents who are not using the infocasa system. A good idea but can mean an offer may be rejected due to the commission splits!

Have fun and bring your wellies!

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I take it the weather is wet there Rixxi?

Sunny here in UK!

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Quack Quack!!

It was awful yesterday, but a good excuse to snuggle up and watch the TV.

Today its mixed, when the sun is out its lovely and I have the hood down on the car BUT the dark clouds are coming over so will have to bob out, put the hood up and turn the music down..... alternatively I can just let it rain and get wet - the faster I drive teh quicker I dry out... Glad to hear you have good weather there, FOR A CHANGE!!!!!!!!

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