ENDESA - How do I change to a lower potencia?

 My electricity bills seem to be getting higher and higher, and a few months ago I found out the reason why - I am on a contract with a Potencia of 13.15 kW.

My neighbour has an identical house, and, as far as I can see, identical switches etc controlling the electricity, but his bills show that he is on a potencia of 6.6 kW.. A Spanish friend asked if I was living in a factory unit if I have a potencia of 13.15 kW!!

I asked Endesa to come and reduce my potencia, but was eventually told that it could not be reduced because I am on a 3 phase supply and if I did change it, there would not be enough power to even run my washing machine - what a load of bull!

I am fairly convinced that I have exactly the same as my neighbour, but can't seem to find anyone to challenge it for me - my solicitors aren't technical and believe what Endesa is telling them! 

Has anyone else got the same problem? Is there a qualified electrician out there who could look at my installation and write down in Spanish and English exactly what I have in order that my solicitors could then pursue it with them? Any other ideas?

In the meantime my bills continue to be high!! Help please

Tony

Hi;

I think you will find that the rate you pay for the electricity consumed is the same regardless of the potencia.

Where they have you by the short and curlies is on the standing charge; this is where the tariff difference is applied, so many days at x.xxx €

We recently had a new contract set up and the consumo tariff remains the same as on our previously lower potencia, but there is certainly a difference in the standing charge which has increased.

Electricity out here is expensive...on a par with the UK if not moreso. Our house is active 24/7 with either heating or aircon going depending on the season; Our bills on average come in at between 120 and 150€ per month.

The way forward for you is to go to a single phase supply but I strongly suspect that the wiring in your location may not be capable of providing the current required, hence the comments about the washing machine; each of the three phases you have is probably rated at around 4.7kW totalling the 13.2 kW you have available, and the domestic load will be spread across the three phases.

If it is possible to go to a single phase system, a lot of changes will have to be made to your internal distribution box and to the external box and it wont be cheap...you should also be aware that if your supply and distribution system was set up before 2006 a lot of revisions will be required to comply with the new regulations.

This would apply regardless of the supplier, Endesa iberdrola, whoever.

Unless you can afford the expense, I'd say leave well alone; dont disturb the can of worms....

Don't know where you are or if the pm system is available to you but I can put you in touch with an honest English speaking, English/Spanish qualified electrician if you want to take it further... He is also well used to negotiating with Endesa on contractual matters.

Hope this helps...

fb

edited: typos

 Thanks for that foxbat

It's kind of helpful, but I'm still confused. I am in a smallish 3 bed townhouse, so why on earth would I have been given a 3 phase supply in the first place? The house was built in about 1998 - is this what they did then?

You are right about the bill - it's on the Potencia section that I lose out - probably about €60 each time, so it's quite a lot every year.

Also, why would my neighbour, in an absolutely identical house, be on 6.6kw? Is it possible that someone ticked the wrong box when signing off my installation when new, and it's been billed wrongly ever since? 

What I would really like to do, is have a tame, qualified electrician look at my house and confirm exactly what I have - I'm in Nueva Andalucia if you know of anyone in that area.

Thanks again

Tony

My understanding is the potencia you contract dictates the main breaker installed on your fuse box which should be sealed.

 example

3.45kw = 15amp breaker

5.75kw =25amp breaker

8.05kw = 35 amp breaker

If you contract 3.45 and do not (which you should not do) bypass the main breaker you will suffer a lot of tripping out.

I am on 8.05kw and I think for my house that's all they will let me contract because I asked for higher and based on age/wiring that's all I could have. But no major problem becuase I took a 2nd feed to a 2nd fuse box. The problem is internal wiring cannot cope with heavy usage so you need to be careful when connecting in heavy use appliances.

But whatever potencia you have the difference is only a few euros in monthly standing order.

I suggest you look and see if anyone else is wired up to you and also you might want to look at night rate use which could be saving in winter. 

 Thanks Faro - I have a 30 amp breaker on the IPC - I investigated that after reading about it on the Endesa website. 

My neighbour has exactly the same. Any ideas what potencia I should be on?

I even sent them a picture of it as follows -

I'm no electrician but I know an argentinian who is!!!

I would have thought the same as your friend 6.6kw. I was originally on 5.5kw and had it increased to 8.05 and all they did was pop along and charge the main breaker from 25amp to 35 amp.

But what I don't understand is 3 phase. My understanding was 3 phase was only used in industrial/commercial ie where you have heavy machinery such as lifts, cutting and welding etc.

Hi tonydoug,

We have the same problem on our development at Balcones de Iznalloz. I noted the problem when we rented one of the apartments for our visit to sign for our Town House. We have got single phase in our Town House that we eventually upgraded to 6.9 KW after our lawyer had arranged for the smaller potential of 3.45 KW that tripped when we used the oven and hob etc. He lives near Marbella where the extra power may not be a requirement as it is in the Granada region, particularly in winter.

The apartments have a 3 phase supply that is needed for items such as the lifts etc that have 3 phase motors. Also the 3 phase supply would be used for the swimming pool pumps etc that are located in the pump house below the apartments if they have 3 phase 400 volt motors.

You should note 4 main incoming switches on your  fuse-board if it is 3 phase. The switches are for each of the 3 live phases and the 4th switch is a common neutral. I suggest you look on google to get an explanation of 3 phase supply that gives an overall voltage of 400 volts.

A singe phase supply can be taken from any of the 3 phases and uses the common neutral to become 220 volts supply, the electrical designer must however ensure that single phases taken for say different properties would be such that there is a balance of supply. At our apartment blocks they did this by taking 3 separate single phases from the 3 phase supply in each apartment so that say the cooker was on one phase kitchen power on another and lighting plus other power taken from the third phase. The best method is to have one apartment on phase 1, another on phase 2 and another on phase 3 etc.

I explained the problem to our caretaker and friend who was also paying the high cost for 13.15KW and he has now had Endesa convert his incoming supply, at a cost, to single phase of 6.9KW potential. Endesa removed 2 of the main incoming switches and wired the fuse-board onto the one remaining incoming switch and the common neutral.

Our friends have now also gone onto the economy tariff that is better for them as residents. It would not be of advantage to us as none residents. Hope the above is of help.

Do you have any 3 phase 400 volt plant such as swimming pool pumps at your property that would require that 3 phase supply. If not, you need to get Endesa to convert your supply at the fuse-board to single phase 220 volts etc. as stated above, the potential can therefore be reduced as all home equipment will be on the same single phase supply.

Regards, raileng

 Hi raileng

Thanks for that

It's having 3 phase that mystifies me. I have a simple 3 bed townhouse - no lifts, pools etc, or anything that consumes a high power. 

A copy of my ICP is on this thread - it has 3 switches, so does that mean that I have 3 phase?

Was it very difficult and very expensive for your friend to switch to single phase?

Thanks again

Tony

So they actually run 3 phase into residential property - If you needed 3 phase for work they probably wouldn't give it to?

Tony;

have pm'd you...

As a newbie, you might not be able to reply but I have spoken to the guy I referred to and he would be prepared to come out to you. However I suggest you talk to him first and see what happens.

fb

 Thanks for that - got the pm

Thanks for your help

Tony

 I have done a lot more research, and there are all sorts of possible answers to my problem.

I now need to find a qualified electrician (qualified and recognised by Endesa I assume) in the Nueva Andalucia area to produce a report on my installation. I obviously need him / her to be fluent English as well as Spanish.

Can anyone help?

Tony

Tonydoug

Try to find a good local Spanish electrician and you're less likely to get ripped off.

An English guy will come in and suck a lot of wind through his teeth and look around your place car/house to see how much he can charge you and make comments such as that's a lot of wiring to sort out (talking up the job) and then an outrageous price and then wonder why he does not get much work! Anyway you will probably find the english guy will need to use a spanish electrician for the bolitin so you might as well engage the Spanish guy direct.

You could go to a big electrical wholesaler and they could give you a name/recommendation. If you were closer to Fuengirola I would send down my argentinian electricial - he's very good and very cheap and no VAT/IVA.

 I finally got an Endesa Tecnico to come to my house after numerous false starts and no shows. He says no problem to reduce the Potencia but .................

I have to have the new style metal door on my meter box before he can do it!!

Any ideas if I can simply replace the existing plastic door with a new metal one, or is it more complicated than that??

 I have now fitted a metal door and am waiting for a tecnico again .................

Have they asked for bolitin nuevo ir bolitin revision?

Sometimes now Endesa make you pull in new 10mm non-smoldering cables if your need a bolitin nuevo and also update consumer unit if it's dated.

Also Sevillana want 50mm cables and you have to use their sub-contractors to run back to transformer and erect pylons along the way etc - megga expensive as they charge 3 times more than if you could do the job privately.

Endesa & Sevillana seem to be up to speed on every EU direcetive when it comes to wiring/electrical installations.

Try to get the job done as quickly as possible otherwise they will keep moving the goal posts etc

I have since found an English electrician who has been here for years which helps and knows the set up etc. I've had to help a few people out over the summer with re-connection!

I have the same problem, although my 3-bed 2006 townhouse has a potencia of 17kw! I've only just realised it's costing us a fortune. How to you get the Endesa technical department to visit and change it.

 phone them or viist the local office

Thank you. Had had such terrible tales of trying to phone in English I'd felt put off. I'll give it a go.