What are my rights

I have recently purchased a secondhand quad bike from a private sale. The quad is very clean and looks well maintained. However, after riding it only three times I have noticed a crack on a major part of the rear swing arm. If this crack turns into a complete break, the rear axle will actually part company from the rest of the bike. I dread to think what would happen if it did.I have checked the photos that the seller originally sent, and sure enough, you can just about see one of the cracks, proving it was there when I bought it, tho going un noticed by myself and the seller at the time of sale.

 I have got all the documentation to transfer the quad at traffico, which I was going to attempt to do tomorrow, but am now not going to do so. I have notified the seller about this problem and sent him the photo with the crack circled. He is starting to get quite nasty with his replies.

 Can anybody throw any light onto my rights and how I should go about getting this problem resolved amicably.

I have had the quad for 12 days and will not ride it anymore in this condition as it is dangerous

With Regards,  steve.

I don't think you will get anywhere. In private sales it's 'buyer beware'. The fact that you can see it in the photos & didn't would be interpreted as not inspecting it properly when you went to view it. I can't see you having much chance even if you went to court. Whether the seller did or didn't know it was there is not going to be the point , it's the fact that you would obviously have inspected it before purchase & didn't spot the cracks that were clear in the photos. Unless the seller is willing to take it back / help fund repairs , both of which I think unlikely then I think you are stuck with paying to get it repaired yourself. Sorry.

Hi Steve

I agree with Gus you are up against it here, I would try and get a reputable guad garage/ repairer to inspect the bike and issue you with a report as to its condition and also a quotation to have the work done. At least then you will have a starting point  in negotiations with the seller and the basis of any claim should you decide to go down the legal route, you never know the garage may be able to put a time line on the cracks.

S

Steve

it would take quite an impact to crack a swinging arm. I would check the rest of the quad carefully, just in case it's been an insurance total loss?.  Sounds like the seller's a bit of a cheat?, I can't believe he wasn't aware of the crack. With that in mind, I doubt you will get anywhere with help from him.  Could it be a manufacturing fault that you could take up with the manufacturer?.

It might well be possible to get it welded?  I cracked the alloy sump on my fiat multipla last year and got it welded up fine, but that was in the UK by an old friend who runs a company called Moorespeed (Northampton)  He tunes and builds desert racing motorbikes for Paris-Daker type racing. Mainly BMW'S and Yamaha's.

Good luck with this, bloody sickening knowing you have been conned.

Hi all and thanks for the replies. I really dont think the chap knew the cracks are there, they are quite hard to see, but once you know they are there they hit you in the face so to speak. Have been out and had a really good look at it today and there are signs of corrosion along the surface of the crack, indicating they have been there for some considerable time. Dont think they are down to impact I think more lightly metal fatigue, Think I will take the bike to a dealer and get a report done so as a starting point , for what result I just dont know. I am certainly not going to ride it in this condition as a catastrophic faliure may cause serious injury or death to myself and possibly others as the bike is road legal!!!!!

Have taken some more good close up pictures and sent to the chap, I await his reply!!!!

Regards

steve

I've had bikes for years, on and off-road and I've never known a swinging arm to fail through metal fatigue?, but have seem several high impact cracks. Perhaps quads are different that way?.  I've always had Japanese bikes (apart from a new disastrous Ducati that fell apart constantly) and they are made very strong in important area's like the swinging arm.  Good that you are taking it to a dealer, they should be able to tell you exactly going on with it......assuming they are ok and you can trust their word?

Hi , this bike is Japanesse, a Suzuki LTZ 400. Have trawled through hundreds of threads on an American forum and only found it mentioned once and then I cant make out if it is in the same place. Tho this rider did state that he used it for racing events. So from this, I assume they are quite strong and should be well upto the pounding it will take on heavy off road use. The only bit that was mentioned over and over is that people are removing and replacing the swingarm for a modified longer arm as it suits there riding style, again all off road to make the wheel base longer thus more stable and in some cases giving more ground clearance.

 Have had no reply yet from the previous owner about the e mail I have attached the photos to, will keep you posted.

I have to also add that I will be using this quad for on road purposes and some very light off roading. I hate to think what would happen if it were jumped and landed on rear wheels, not that at 48 am capable of that,lol.

Regards.

Unfair maybe, but the words " Bought as seen " spring to mind. I think all you can do here is try to appeal to his better nature, becuase I suspect you will struggle to move things forward officially or legally.

Yes, I know what you are saying, thanks for the replies. I think the only thing going for me is that I have not as yet registered with traffico to me. I have told the seller this and am not to do it until the situation is resolved. Does anybody know the rights on this or am I in breach if I dont register it to me!!!

I will be honest with you these machines without cracks in the swinging arms are still lethal our local paper last week reported on a young girl as a passanger who died  at low speed from head injuries ,no helmets required in UK which is crazy.

My advice is scrap it sell it on for parts youll be doing yourself and your family a favour and dont get me wrong i have owned and riden motorcycles since 9 years old im nearly 50 and still love em

And if your buying one of these deathtraps and riding it in Spain god help you.

Rod

I'm guessing you are stuck with this. If he's an honest good guy he could at least go halves on a repair or replacement, but doesn't sound likely . Failing that it might be worth trying breakers if it's not repairable by an ally' welder?.  An after market swinging arm might well work out cheaper new?.

Hi Rod,I do understand what you are saying about quads,  and  like anything they can be lethal in the wrong hands,as they require a particular riding style which is quite different to a motorcycle or scooter. And agree with you in saying in the UK crash helmets are not a legal nececity,it is totally ridiculous. I have ridden quads for over 4 years now with no close shaves etc, you must respect the machinery and wear the corect protective clothing.

However, breaking it for spares is not an option for me, this machine was bought in good faith, no matter that its a quad, and has been sold to me with a major structural defect. This is like cutting your car across the roof just in front of the rear wheels and hoping the floor pan will hold together!!! Even worse on a quad as it is driven by a rear axle a few inches away from the cracks all this power is being transmitted through the swing arm to the frame, and ultimately pushing the machine along the road. I would attatch some pictures I have taken so you can all add your comments to why you think it has done this but cant seem to do it for some reason.

 Have still heard nothing from the seller.

 Regards.

Being road legal, why was this not picked up with the ITV?

Assuming they have to have an ITV of course!

Take care.

I can't see how you would get anywhere. I doubt Spain has anything as slick as a small claims court, but even in UK you'd lose your case. The seller offered to sell you something. I assume he didn't give you a warranty. So the onus is on you to check your purchase - the classic caveat emptor. You also know that quad-bikes are off-road vehicles, very likely roughly treated. Do I understand the seller also  told you he used it to race? Very upfront of him. So you would be expected to be especially careful, ideally have it checked by a mechanic. Also, you admit riding it yourself - who's to say you didn't give it a hammering and turn what might have been a small crack into a big one? Surely best option is to see if it can be properly fixed at a reasonable cost and chalk it up to experience.

The quad is very clean for its age and has never been raced, dont know were you got that from. The vehicle has a current ITV pass dating back to April , that is nearly 5 months ago, and then I dont believe it would have been spotted by the tester at the time if the cracks were there at that time,they are quite lapse here.. I have been a mechanic and sadly only spotted it while giving it a wipe down on Sunday. However I could challenge you all to spot the cracks, as they look just like a scratch line, but after closer inspection it is evident they are fractures, deeming the vehicle unsafe for road use let alone off road use as could let go at any moment. This is one of the properties of aluminium alloy unfortunately it doesnt flex much and just fractures instead.

 As I said earlier, the quad is very clean and shows very little sign of off road use having been registered as road legal.

I am 49 years old with a severe back injury I sustained 12 years ago, I am not capable of blasting the thing around like I would have done 20-30 years ago,lol. But having said that have been a quad enthusiast for many years and owning several in the uk any major problems.

I also believe there to be a small claims court here in Spain, and if nececesary can get a qualified mettalagist to examine it and ascertain when these appeared.

The previous owner has offered to have it ally welded, tho I believe it is an unsafe repair as you have to get the correct weld penetration to deem this safe, you could even make it worse in some cases.Also the cosmetic effect of welds are off putting to potential buyers when I sell the vehicle.. It may be satisfactory for riding round a field, but not on the highways, as I said earlier, its like cutting through the roof on your car and hoping the floor pan will hold it together,you just wouldnt do it.

I do appreciate all your comments and hope I can come to an amicable agreement with the seller.After all nobody likes being sold a "lemon". I hope none of you buy dodgy goods by mistake !!!!!!

 Have a go at spot the cracks in the photo above.

Regards.

The picture is the original sent to me by the owner.

 Regards.

steve

as the cracks are hard to see, and the previous owner has agreed to have it welded, it doesn't sound like he's being unfair if a weld will be strong enough?. A good ally welder will let you know if a safe and lasting weld is viable?. It will knock value off, but probably still the best option?.

Here they are, now spot them again in the original.

 Thre they are, making this a very weak structure, and there is even signs of corrosion along the crack suggesting it has been there a while.

 Regards.

Hi Goodstitch, yes it may have to come to that, have added somemore pics, you seem a sensible and knowledgable person what do you think???

Regards.

Hi

I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but if you didn't spot them when you were looking the quad over, and if they initially looked like a scratch, isn't it possible that the previous owner hadn't realised either and thought it was just a scratch?  On that basis, and as you had the chance to check the quad before buying it, isn't any offer he makes to have it welded a reasonable deal?  Of course he may very well have known - but it would be impossible to prove that!

Sue