Who to trust?

Please help. just about to close on the purchase of an apartment in Spain. We have been paying a lawyer for pretty much nothing up until now and dont entirely trust that they are on our side. We have been told by the developer that we dont need a lawyer for the final signing and they are organising a notary. Would we be mad to sign without a lawyer present? The lawyer is now saying that we need them to organise documents for proof of the source of our funds and also to close an outstanding case against us from the developer. The developer have confirmed that on signing of the contract they will fully stop the court procedings and that we dont entirely need a lawyer present. Please help. Any comments would be very much appreciated. Thanks All.

You should ALWAYS have an INDEPENDENT lawyer for all off-plan purchases who does NOT have any links to the developer, agent or bank.  You should use the Lawyer right through to the end of the purchase process.

Never use a Lawyer who was recommended by the Agent, Developer or Bank.

If the developer is trying to persuade you not to use a Lawyer, then I would suggest that they are up to no good and to quote the Spanish Prime Minister: trying to 'pull the wool over your eyes'.

If for any reason you are not happy with your current Lawyer, then it is not too late to change to another firm.  You have the right to INDEPENDENT legal representation at every stage of the purchase process.

Do not listen to the developer!

Why has the developer taken legal action against you?

Kind regards

Keith 

Hi Keith,

Thankyou very much for your reply. I thought someone might say that. We had tried to get out of the contract originally a couple of years ago along with many other purchasers in the same complex. We were hoping beyond hope that we could avoid going through with the purchase after the recession hit but were then advised that all persons trying to back out were having legal proceedings brought against them, we then decided that although it will be tough that we should go ahead with the purchase. The developer will not suspend the case until we sign they say as they have had instances of persons intending to close and backing out at the last minute which apparently costs the developer further fees to put the case back into action. Do you have any idea what documentation the lawyer is mentioning for proof of the source of our funds? I had not heard this before?

Again, your help is very much appreciated

It's just a letter from your bank manager stating the source of the funds & where they came from , that's all. I went in & asked for mine & waited while he did it.

Thanks Gus,

Do we need to have this when completing the sale in front of the notary?

 Yes, you do.

Bringiton

Make sure that your Lawyer does all the relevant checks prior to competing your purchase.

Ensure that you have the Licence of First Occupation and that the property is completed to your full satisfaction and to the exact specification of the contract.

Also ensure that the development and your property have all the promised facilites and infrastructure as per the contract and all advertising material.

Just be very careful.  Completing the purchase of an off-plan property is a very important time and your Lawyer should be doing everything in his/her power to protect your interests.

Hopefully everything will be fine and you will enjoy your new property.

Kind regards

Keith

Hi All,

Many Thanks for all your advice. We have decided it is probably best to have the lawyer there when signing considering our Spanish is not quite fluent . Hopefully all will go well and we can enjoy our Spanish abode. We do love the country and the culture but they dont make things easy for people to enjoy it with them! Muchas gracias y bueno suerte. 

Hello bringiton.

There is often so much turmoil as to which lawyer to use, and whether you can trust them or not.

An important point that Spain hasn't really addressed is the fact that most lawyers are not experts in conveyancing. It's true to say that years ago lawyers were NOT used in the purchase or selling of properties. But that was when Spanish estate agents were regulated and all had to be API qualified.

Those days have changed and anyone can now set up as an estate agent or developer and sell property in Spain without any formal qualifications or training. This created a vaccumm of legal knowledge which lawyers soon filled. Regardless of whether they had any experience in real estate or not.

The boom of recent years encouraged many lawyers to enter the real estate market and set up arrangements with local estate agents and developers. So even though your estate agent may say to you that you can pick your own lawyer from the phone book the chances are that they will already have arrangements in place with most of them.

So your initial question "Who do you trust?" is a poignant one, especially when you consider the number of people that have used lawyers to buy properties in Spain only to find that in the end it all went horribly wrong, including in some cases having their house demolished. And when you read about it they all say "but our lawyer assured us everything was fine".

There are obviously good real estate lawyers that cross every 't' and dot evey 'i'. not every purchase in Spain goes wrong, and not every lawyer is hooked up with an estate agent or developer.

You need to find who these good lawyers are. The best way to do this is to get involved with local English people that have purchased in your area (not necessarily your town) and ask them who they used and would they recommend them. Don't whatever you do ask your estate agent to introduce you to happy buyers, make the effort to find your own.  

Bringiton... please forgive me for saying this but have you got the brains you were born with?!!!!

“We have been paying a lawyer for pretty much nothing up until now and dont entirely trust that they are on our side”
[ your gut instinct will almost certainly be correct ] 

“We have been told by the developer that we dont need a lawyer for the final signing and they are organising a notary”
[ suggest you ask the developer to put those exact words in writing, then ask 100 people and see what response you get ]

“Would we be mad to sign without a lawyer present?”
[ stark raving mad.. even just to ask that question! ]

“The developer have confirmed that on signing of the contract they will fully stop the court procedings and that we dont entirely need a lawyer present”
[ assume blackmail isn't an offence in spain then? ]

“We had tried to get out of the contract originally a couple of years ago along with many other purchasers in the same complex”
[ so who's convinced you otherwise... let me guess.. the developer? ]

“we then decided that although it will be tough that we should go ahead with the purchase”
[ I refer to my opening line ]

“We have decided it is probably best to have the lawyer there when signing considering our Spanish is not quite fluent”
[ so assuming you speak fluent english, it sounds like you'd be happy to complete a UK purchase without the use of a solicitor! ] 

“Hopefully all will go well”
[ do you do the lottery? ]

Profuse apologies for any offence taken, but come on, get a grip!

Might I suggest you name the developer and describe the scenario (briefly) then you may get the benefit of someones direct experiance in such a matter.

I would ask yourself one question.. what's the worst thing that can happen if I walk away? (but base it on facts, not rhetoric).

Good luck. Pat  

Of course you need a lawyer, but you don't have to use THAT lawyer. No harm in speaking to another one for a second opinion. I bought a property a number of years ago from a source who told me that 'I didn't need a lawyer' and that 'It was a waste of money etc...'  - but then again you'd say that too if you had something to hide, wouldn't you ?

We bought through Parador many years ago and used their recommended lawyer, wont go into the ulgy details now it's already recorded here somewhere. When we finally completed we found one of our neighbours had worked for Parador and obviously knew the score because they proudly proclaimed that they had a lawyer from 'out of town' as if we should all have known the recommended lawyer was dodgy. Pity they didn't share this info with the buyers beforehand as those honest punters amongst us didn't even think of this. But still they try and defend Parador and all their dodgy practices. Perhaps they bought their house commission free, who knows ..............................Trust no-one except a personally recommended lawyer who has a known track record.

Thankyou to all those who provided me with helpful comments.

Pat / 'Growler' - very fitting. My email was merely a verification of my thoughts and I was not looking for 100% direction but thankyou for your useless albeit amusing comments although I do fear that you may have gotten lost somehow whilst surfing so just to provide a little direction to what you must have been trying to locate previously. Go to ehow website and search under Be-a-comedian. Pleeease accept my apologies for any offence taken as this is not my intention, just trying to be 'helpful'.

Don't get all hot and bothered, I did state "profuse apologies for any offence taken"  

If I wanted to be funny I'd have told a joke about an ostrich and some sand.

Just sign whatever they put in front of you as you can always blame the developer or solicitor if it goes pear-shaped. 

 Calm and cool as always growler. The clause doesnt always save you from a back lashing! **wink**

Hi All,  Some good news for once. We signed for our apartment and all went fabulously well including the lawyer pulling their weight finally!!! Thank god the stressful times are behind us..I hope! Now to organise a fiesta to celebrate...

Word of warning..wish I had have known this. BEWARE OF THE SPANISH BANK CHARGES... I thought Ireland was bad.....

Thanks again

A few years ago a friend (who was a prominent law profesor at a prestigious law school in the USA) told us that he visited his friend in a small village in the province of Castellon, on liking the village said to his friend (also a profesor at the university, but not in the law faculty) that he would be interested in buying a house in the same village. Some time later the friend phoned and said he had found him a nice house, in need of modernisation. He liked what he heard and sent the money over to Spain. Some months later he came to Spain went to the Notary and everything went through perfectly correctly. He later told us that if he had told his friends in the Law school what he had done they would have laughed him out of the faculty.

He would never have done this in his own country, why did he (and many thousand more) do such a stupid thing. It seems that people leave their brains at the border.

You wouldn't dream of using the vendor's lawyer in the UK etc. Why do it abroad where you know less about the system

Get real

Does nobody ever read the previous posts before adding their tuppence? Maybe some people just like the sound of their own typing!

Hi Bringiton

I am pleased that things went well for you.

When you say your Lawyer finally pulled their weight - does that mean that you have got the Licence of First Occupation in your hand and that the property was completed to your satisfaction and as per the specification of the contract?

Kind regards

Keith

Hi Keith,

Thankyou. Yes I queried that with both the developer and our lawyer before we signed and they sent out the completed and stamped licence to us. All documents were brought to the notary also and the contract read and agreed and of course the halting of the court proceedings was included and reviewed to ensure it was satisfactory. The bank fees were the only surprise in the end. Lesson learned!! All in all the developer of course was delighted to pay back the mortgage, the bank thrilled to get their money back and us so happy that its over and all t's crossed and i's dotted. We can look forward to furnishing and spending some time in the sun in our spanish abode. Thank God!   PS: Never again.

Excellent. 

I hope you have many happy holidays in your Spanish apartment.

It is encouraging to hear some good news stories once in a while!!

Kind regards

Keith