URBANIZATION COMMITTEE - SNAGGING BEFORE HANDOVER OF ALL AREAS TO COMMUNITY COMMITTEE

So you move into your new villa! The developer wants a commitee set up to run the urbanization, this sometimes will be a commitee of people who are the first to move in on the urbanization and have no real knowledge of how to deal with a developer that has possibly been good enough to do a land grab.

So once handed over you are responsible from that point on even if the developer has not completed the total infrastructure of the development.

So if you buy a property you would snag for faults. So why not all the communal area, in the European Union EU standards mean that Certification of work must be done so all these Certificates of completion of works, scope of existing work and risk assesments should be put in place for a commitee to take over

Lets face it we have to pay to upkeep it so it should be 100% complete before handover

Any thought to this?

Remember not only do you buy a property but into a community if you like it or not!

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The only legal requirement for a community is a Presidente, although it is obviously benificial to have a willing committee too.

It is also unfortunate that you often do not know what snags there are until after the building has been handed over, most of us do not have the experience for this type of thing. However, the building should have a ten year guarentee, which means, in theory you can get the snags sorted. Unfortunately this is not so easy in practice! If your initial approach to the builder fails to sort out the problem, then your only recourse is to law.....which, in Spain, is incredibly s...l...o....w. Also you would need an official report from an architect to take to court. All this not only costs money, but involves lots and lots of stress, believe me!! It would be good if it were possible not to accept the handover until all the snagging was sorted but I fear you would be having a long long wait, with no community formed, no insurance, no fees agreed ,so nothing done.

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I agree the reason for this thread is to make people aware of what you have basically said mainly because costs seem to be passed onto the urbanization, possibly if an awareness is built solicitors, press etc will jump on the bandwagon and this will make the developers more aware that these ares are being looked at.

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This issue is really dependant on how lucky you are with the developer.  We know some developers who are fantastic when it comes to resolving issues with communal areas and esuring that they are all finishd to same standard as the properties.  I have to say that these seem to be an exception.  I know MANY developers who don't give a hoot once people have handed over the money.

If you have a decent lawyer then they can force the developer to finish of the communal areas before you complete.

I agree though, most communal areas start costing the community money resolving issues which really should be sorted by the developer.  In this instance you need a good president and administrator to ensure the developer meets his obligation....easier said than do though.

Great topic for discussion though.

Justin

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"......However, the building should have a ten year guarentee, which means, in theory you can get the snags sorted....."

I've asked this before, but this seems a good thread to pose the question again. Has anybody actually seen a written copy of the so called 10 year "guarantee", and if so, what specifically does it cover? I have repeatedly asked our administrator to obtain a copy of it from the developer, to no avail. I'm not sure who's dragging their heels - admin or developer. I think what we believe to be a "warranty" is in fact an insurance policy against major defects i.e. structural problems, subsidence etc. But trying to prove anything is wrong, in the case of the developer denying responsibility, as Karen says, would involve getting a survey report from an architect, paying a lawyer to take the case to court, and take considerable time & effort, all of which developers are undoubtedly aware of, and use to their advantage. As for less serious "snags" (such as finishing off gardens etc.) once handover has been concluded, there's probably very little legal recourse, since the "guarantee" probably only covers, as I said above, structural defects, which a scruffy garden is hardly covered by. I agree wholeheartedly with LAM1963, that all snagging should therefore be competed before handover, but unfortunately in practice this often is not possible, and besides, there's always going to be problems which are not immediately obvious but surface over time.

So it would be very intersting to know if anybody knows the exact terms of their "guarantee", precisely what is covered by it, is there a standard cover for all new properties (as in NHBC), and finally, if anybody knows what more I can do to get our administrator to get a copy of the damned thing?!

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Hi Roberto - I once saw one a few years ago - it was hand written and was'nt even as much use as toilet paper!

And trying to take legal action on one would be interesting - I reckon once judgement finally came through and was enforced, the property would have fallen down anyway - or is that just me being a wee bit cynical in my old age??

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If enough people can get the press and agents interested in this then it is something that can be achieved, again retention of 5% until completion of areas seems fair, maybe one of our solicitors who reads these threads can see another way of earning extra out of the developers without costing the buyer more money

All the magazines on buying never really touch this subject and it needs to be more than touched upon especially if developers start to feel the pinch due to more property than buyers etc

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my understanding of this subject is you get 2 years on minor problems ,cracking render,burst pipe,etc and ten years on major defects subsidence etc.i believe that on a 12month basis the administrator has a report done(i think by the town hall) and a 'guarantee book' stamped and it is at this point if a fault is found it can be registered.having said that it appears difficult to get to the bottom of this and find out if this is being done,but you can bet the developers book is up to date as he has a copy himself and when we questioned him he pulled it from a shelf about 10 inches thick and showed us the stamps.an ongoing project for us.

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Hi,

We (as in committee) found some details of the 10 year insurance policy in the Libro del Edficio - the big book thing that should be given to you by your lawyer on completion. It showed the policy number of the Seguro Decenal and other policices that were valid during the build process. The reason we went looking for it was, as usual, because there were various faults developing within the complex that were not covered by individual or community insurance, so we thought we would try the elusive 10 year guarantee. As you would suspect it doesn't really cover very much. The guy from Mapfre was generally quite helpful and understood where we were coming from, but his hands were tied.

The Decenal is only there to cover re-build or repair if the damage or fault could lead to the collapse of the building. He drew a helpful diagram explaing how the building was contructed and that most of the cracks etc were superficial, and not to worry. Our main concern was the amount of water we have seeping from various sources into various areas. I asked if surely this water ingress and subsequent damage would not eventually lead to the collapse of the building. He wasn't convinced, but said he had noted my concerns and that if the building did collapse within 10 years to get back to him, as we may have a valid point! In the meantime the problems we were experiencing were due to shoddy workmanship and to get the original promotor to fix them. I said we had tried that, to no avail. He just shrugged his shoulders and left.

If you cannot find the policy number for the decenal try asking the same company that covers you for community insurance - i.e standard loss of roof tiles and public liability - ours are both with Mapfre. Many owners also use Mapfre and we find the continuity in companies helps a lot and resolves issues fairly quickly. (of course only ones within the policy)

It would seem from here on in that our community will liable for the cost of repairs of pretty much everything - even those items that the builder said they would see to and never quite got round to. We have been advised to get reports from the insurance company everytime something needs repair, so it can be shown in black and white that the problem is because of 'mal constructora'. Then to collate all this and any costs involved. Once the outstanding amount gets to about 50,000 euros it would be worth starting a claim against the promotor - before that the amount holds no significance and they would just tell you to get lost ,or ignore you - which would be the most likely reaction

I hope the above helps someone. Sorry it is so long - this is my first ever posting on any forum ever!

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Hi presidenta

For a first time post on this or any other forum, you have made some extremely good points.

We are in a community of an apartment block and our Presidente has just recently been lloking at our insurances.

His wife posts on EOS under the member name KarenSun and we also have Roberto who is a Presidente.

These are the type of EOS members who can chat away to you knowing what they are talking about!

I am just me!

So don't know all the in's and out's of all the cummunity stuff!

Good luck with it all, if the above members (or any others who are in the "know") don't reply to you, search for them and send them a Private Message.

kind regards,

 

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Proving a point that we are all considered not to know hence why snagging the urbanization is important otherwise the people on the original could become liable for there own negligence not to do so
We should all look at the policy details to what is included and not believe the developers who will want to get off site as soon as possible.

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