Spanish Wills

Does anybody please have experience of how or who to contact over making a spanish will associated costs etc any advice would be most appreciated

Malaga Province

Rod

www.ournextholiday.co.uk

We did ours through our solicitor. We had an intial meeting to discuss our specific requirements and what is mandatory through Spanish law. They then sent us draft wills in English and Spanish. we made some minor amendments then a few days later we signed them in the Notary's office.

I think that we paid about EUR 200..can'r remember if that include the Notary's fee or if we paid that additionally.

But overall because we have such a good solictor the process was totally painless

We had Maria De Castro who you can contact throu EOS she done ours and it was very reasonable.

Rod

You don't need  a lawyer - and certainly not at €200.  It's a doddle to do it yourself using an interpreter if your Spanish isn't up to it as you go to the notary with your wishes set out and the notary's clerk drafts the will for you to process in front of the notary.  The solicitor will charge you for explaining that in Spanish inheritance law you can't just leave it all to the other partner with the children inheriting when both have popped their clogs as most Brits do in simple cases in the UK.

The Spanish Law of Obligatory Heirs (Ley de Herederos Forzosos) provides that the estate must be divided as follows:

I have heard it said, a long time ago when my wife and I made our spanish wills, that the rule of compulsory inheritance need not apply for EU citizens who retain their UK domicile.

As to using a solicitor, it would depend on the complexity of your estate, since the legalities could be dangerous, and certainly tax consideration should be bone in mind.

Jek "You don't need a lawyer"

sorry but that is an insane piece of advice in any country and in any  legal circustance .

Any time that you have to deal with the law either in England or Spain (or anywhere else for that matter), the prudent course of action is to take local expert legal advice...and clearly this does not come free.

Why do people think that  if they have a financial or legal problem that they are competant to deal with it themselves? If your TV breaks you get a competant, qualified engineer to come and advise you what needs to be done. Legal problems are the same, just because the lawyer doesn't turn up at your house with a toolbox, doesn't mean that any layman can do his job.

We've all heard of people in the UK who have bought Will forms in WH Smith and assumed that they had compled with all the legal niceties, only for their dependants to realize that this was't true and problemse arise accordingly.

So if you wouldn't make a will without a solicitor in the UK, why would you attempt to do so in a country where you understand neither the language or legal system,?

Rod, my advice is this. Get Legal advice...you or more likely your dependants may regret it later if you don't............and certainly don't assume that a poster on an internet forum has covered all the bases for you

marcbernard

UK inheritance law stipulates that the disposal of land and buildings, household and personal goods abroad is governed by the law of the country where the property is situated  . So Spanish inheritance law would kick in. However, Article 9 of the Spanish Civil Code states that, when a foreign property owner dies, the disposal of any assets he owns in Spain will be governed by his own national inheritance law.   So a UK will is fine.  The only downside is that proving it in relation to Spanish property is more complicated and more time-consuming. 

The problem comes if one of the children or anyone who would benefit under the Spanish law of obligatory heirs takes the matter to the Spanish courts who would accept that English law prevailed under their Code; then look at English law which says that the law of the country in which the asset is situated applies - and apply Spanish law, very probably in favour of the claimant.

Hammersfan

Your name says it all really.  Isn't insanity an obligatory precondition for membership?   And good luck at St Andrews.

Your argument is the same as that used by solicitors years back about conveyancing.  Much too difficult for you plebs.  You need us.  £2,000 please.  Yet many people did diy conveyancing and, hey, it wasn't so complicated after all.

You are wrong about the WHSmith will forms.   If you want a relatively straightforward will it does the job very nicely without rip-off lawyer fees.  But one major difference between the UK and Spain is the notary.   In Spain if you go to the notary with your proposals, you will be told whether you can do it or not and the notary's clerk will amend the MS Word document on his pc and ...... job done.  You pay the notary fee (about €75 + IVA) last time I checked whether or not you use a lawyer - and pay €200 + IVA for very little work and nothing your semi-intelligent punter couldn't do himself.  But..... semi-intelligent....... Hammersfan............

Jek

Let me think...do I trust  a serious legal issue to some completely unknown poster on an internet forum who may have the best intentions (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) but may be completely wrong with his advice,  or an experienced legal professional?

...bit of a no-brainer really

As for the WH Smith wills, agreed that if things are straightforward they are fine, but the point I make is that the layman  does not have the ability or knowledge to judge whether this is likely to be the case, and there are well-publicised instances of people coming unstuck due to unexpected circumstances which these wills did not cover..why take the chance?

 And even putting aside the issue of legal competance ,  for me personally, the time that I saved by having the solicitor sort out my wills  rather than me have to do it was far more important to me than a couple of hundred euro

Hi, Get your self a lawyer to do the will it would be money well worth spent,  I would not seek advice on any forum i would go and find out for myself as we did.

I am not suggesting for a moment that anyone should take legal advice from me or from any other forum poster.  What I am trying (obviously not very successfully) to suggest here is why pay a lawyer when you can get the same advice from a notary (who is likely to be better advised than any lawyer) for free?

I think I paid €300 for two Wills for myself and my partner plus a small fee to Notarise the documents. I feel if property is involved and you are not residents in the Country where you own them, then it's perhaps best to bite the bullet and pay a reasonable fee for hopefully a professional service?

Wouldn't it be great if Justin would research and publish a list of average rates charged by all the Legal Service providors for various services................................I'm sure it would be a very popular thread to follow!

 It is true that a Notary can advise you to do a will, you need to lookj for an English speaking one.

The only difference is that he will not get that involved in your personal circumsntances and ways of saving expenses and problems to you as your personal lawyer would so.

Notaries´role is mot of adequation of your will to the legality but not on protecting your interests when granting a will.

I hope this clarifies a bit.

Best regards,

Maria

Hi Maria,

Based on your experience can you comment on what should be an average cost for producing an individual or couples Will and what a Notary may charge for legally witnessing the document?

Be careful about different rules in the various regions - hope that will be resolved soon- different rules for resident and non resident, and to be resident are you doing tax returns in Spain.? Will beneficiary stay in Spain for 10 years -again different rules different regions.

Does your English will exempt Spanish assets?  otherwise which will applies?  Make use of as many allowances as possible - each beneficiary has an amount exempt from Tax

Inheritence tax in UK is on estate and Spanish tax is a beneficiary tax. If estate in UK is over IHT allowance then tax could be paid twice . A more in depth approach is needed . I know of Spanish families using a trust to own properties  or a limited company. Many Spanish lawyers say it can only be a Spanish company.

I live on Condado de Alhama in Murcia and have taken many people to the notary to make a Spanish will. I f estate is more complex then I suggest they look at putting property in a UK company using Spanish gift rules for transfer. . Link on my web site for more info.

I can also have an English will done wih correct clauses to exclude Spanish property .

I am not a lawyer  I am ex UK IFA and Building Society Manager also have experience in UK probate.

If you are further west I belive that Mariadecastro is more open to other solutions as some Spanish lawyers just close down idea of a UK company as this is not in their experience. However EU rules say otherwise.

This is a complex issue and Spanish rules are different to UK and be careful of conflict between two systems

see David Searle Book Living in Spain and tables for allowances etc !!

David Ingman

www.affairsinorderspain.com   

I would say that 150 € for a will is fair as the lawyers always revise the application of Spanish/UK Law and related details and that entails a work,  also communication with client...

This together with the drafting of the document itself and the presence/ management to set an appointment with an english speaking Notary or interpretor.

Costs of Notary of these acry from 40 to 60 in our experience.

Thanks David, Maria for your excellent replies.

In addition to protecting your rights in any written will, it would also make sense to seek Spanish Inhertitence Tax advice at the same time you have them prepared?

That´s it, and this tax advising  is also something that the Notary will not do for you.

Best regards,

Maria

Many Thanks

Lots of useful information here

Regards Rod

www.ournextholiday.co.uk

Also you don't necessarily need a Spanish will.

You can deal with the Spanish property in your UK will.

I do a lot of probate work and it makes no difference to me cost or otheriwse what will is used.

There is always documents that need notarisation and/or legalisation so dealing with a UK will at the same time is no hassle.

The only comment I would make is if your UK estate is complicated then a Spanish will might be a good idea. But the majority of people have fairly straightforward will/estates etc

Discuss with your UK/Spanish lawyer.

If you only have a UK will what is the procedure and timescale of getting UK will translated approved by court in Spain? Is it not easier just to get a Spanish  will in place for Spanish Property to make process easier?