I see the Doom & Gloom Merchants have taken over the site again

 Feliz cumpleanos, Maureen.

I turned 50 recently and was astonished that the world did not crumble. But then again, I attented the 50th of a friend last year and he began his speech with the words : ,,Thank you for coming to my party. Now that a third of my life is over....'' and I thought that is the right way of looking at it!

Hammers, what else can one do when the situation is dire? You look for support and help, or at least get rid of a bit of steam, wherever you can. Besides, you seem to enjoy a bit of gloom and doom yourself! But I ain't saying nothing about football.

Nah, I am lying

http://oldskoolanthemz.com/forum/humour/17333-west-ham-jokes.html

Cove Robert

good luck to your friend making 150?, gonna need a helluva pension!!..........and yes, if I supported the Hammers, I'd feel pretty gloomy .

Justin and Ads have explained it all very well, and the evidence is clear but we have to have open eyes to see!.  Nobody wants doom and gloom but while that's the reality for far to many, then it would be nice to think everyone will pull together to help bring the long overdue changes as soon as possible. Soon as we get a result for those so badly cheated then hopefully the 'doom and gloom' will replaced by threads of celebration .

seems like people have missed the point, so although I know I'm wasting my breath I'll try again...for the last time..then give up as I'm obviously not allowed to voice an opinion that goes against the Doom-mongers on here

Ads, just what we needed, another war & peace effort justifying why you need to take over every thread with your position..which is potentially useful for anyone who has been living on another planet and hasn't heard it all before

Goodstich..who says I'm gloomy..not at all.. I'm fed up to the back teeth of the constent re-hashing of the same story, but generally not gloomy. I seem to remember the last time we had a Good things / happiness thread you guys tried to smother it at birth. because it didn't suit your view of the world

Cove. just maybe for most of us the situation isn't dire and so constantly beating us with the same stick isn't going to win our support. Happy to see the jokes..at least it relieves the usual negativity on here  which was the point of the thread so thanks for your support

Oh and by the way I LOVE SPAIN, for all it's faults

I suggest that it is you that is missing the point. You just don't get it do you Hammersfan that new situations and threats to consumer protection are occurring on a regular basis that require reporting and analysing, not to mention new analysis/ research to assist as this becomes available.....

Hello Hammersfan:

I have to agree with you, in the main.  You say:

"EOS is a great source of communal wisdom and experience, it is informative, funny and sometimes even sad, but it is that MIXTURE that makes it compelling. If we let it become taken over by a single issue, it loses it's appeal and value.."

Exactly, Hammers.  There is no reason why the "hard done bys" should not let off steam here, or petition, or explain.  It is an open forum.  But I agree with you when you say that I have observed the attempt to try to damp down any threads which deal with other aspects of life or living in Spain. 

I tried also to engage some time back on some of those threads regarding the "quest for justice and the "petitions".  And as y ou wisely told me at the time, I was wasting my breath.  All I got was abuse.

So now I don't even read that stuff, nor would I put my name to such a petition, and now they will never know either whether I might have been able to offer them help.

You are perfectly entitled to voice your opinion here, Hammers, as am I.

Ads says:

"If everyone came together on this (including those not directly affected), there would be a much swifter solution"

I have doubts about a swift solution or any solution at all.  But, leaving that aside, why would I  "come together" with such a movement if one is not even allowed to question, suggest or comment on it? 

Patricia

Abuse in any argument serves no purpose......neither does divisive comments.

No one is making divisive comments, Ads. 

Who could not but sympathise with people who have been swindled one way or another, here in this country or elsewhere.

However, if you see every comment made, which is not in line with your sole viewpoint, as "divisive", then that is your problem.  If your campaign is a closed shop only for those who say "yes, absolutely" to all your ideas, well, you go right ahead.  All you will do is alienate people.

Patricia

Thanks Patricia

..glad to see that there are others out there who DO get it.

We will just have to accept that certain people on here really can't see the wood for the trees and won't rest till we have all been alienated.

Like you I have not signed the petition...mainly because I don't like being told what to do. Aain, like you, I will continue to voice my opposition-not to the underlying premise about abuses of justice- but to the fact that those of us who are getting fed up with the continual negative threads (and hijacking of positive ones) are seen as heretics by a vocal few.

It comes back to what I said at the very start...we need to reclaim the site from the "no oppositon allowed" clan even though their view is sacred and they must always be right.

Ads..what I do get is that you are continually looking for items that show Spain in a negative light so that it can support your view that Spain is unequivocally evil and no-one should be allowed to enjoy it if you cant.  Guess what...most EOS members are totally alienated by that...shame you can't see that

Exactly, Hammers.  I don't like either being told what I should do.  All these "shoulds", and "musts".

Let me put it this way.  If I had been swindled out of money on a property deal, I can tell you the campaign/petition on here would be the last place I would contemplate joining or supporting.  I would take measures, and perhaps join with a group where I could voice my opinion, adverse or otherwise, as to how the campaign was being conducted.

I certainly think that all and any persons swindled on property transactions should take meaures to recover their money, and to so with the utmost enthusiasm, and to take PROFESSIONAL advice on how to go about that.

Patricia

 Hammer. I know where you are coming from but it's just not that easy for some people. And thank you for taken my post in the spirit it was meant to be.

Goodstitch, I think he wants to invest in Spanish property for his pension. Do you think he can get a return on investment in the next 100 years?

Patricia

could you really be so mean as to not sign any petition fighting for justice, that alone not supporting Keith, ads, Suzanne, Justin etc in all the hard work they are doing in the name of what's right for people treated so badly.

 When you agree with Hammersfan and similar opinions you show what a truly selfish and horrible person you are, while prentending to support those wronged. For heavens sake, go and sling your hook if that's how you really feel and leave the forum to those who do care about others wronged.

If we aliente people like you, all well and good!. 

 All on board the merry-go-round. Tickets, please.

As always, Goodstitch, so pleasant!  And so blinkered.  How dare you name-call me.  Who do you think you are anyhow?  I have as much right to be on this forum as you have.  You are an abusive person and should be reported as such.  I truly feel now for the wronged people who have joined your so-called campaign. 

I might indeed have signed the petition, and encouraged others to do so, if it were not for the abusive way I was treatd when I first enquired about the "campaign".   And you are one of those abusers.  So go and get some psychiatric treatment for yourself, because you evidently have a problem.

.........just go and sling your hook.

You really are a sick person, Goodstitch. 

P

 What, over already? I want my money back!

That went well, Hammer, don't you think?

Hammersfan, total untruths and you do me a great disservice to suggest so.......... I have been focusing on factual evidence and always looking for a means to resolve outstanding problems within the existing laws. What is increasingly obvious however is that lack of law enforcement in Spain continues to compromise innocent people.

The World Justice Project identifies:

“Spain lags behind its regional and income-group peers in providing mechanisms for public participation - including the right to petition public authorities - and in effectively enforcing government regulations (ranking 21st). Judicial delays, ineffective enforcement of civil justice “

It also identifies

“Regulations are futile if they are not properly enforced by authorities. Ensuring compliance with the regulatory framework is thus a key feature of the rule of law. Besides enforcement, accountability is vital when it comes to regulating an activity. In addition, accountability, independence, and transparency of regulatory agencies are fundamental to ensure that regulatory institutions act within the limits authorized by law, as public enforcement may increase opportunities for rent-seeking, negligence, and abuse by officials pursuing their own interest."
"the absence of improper influence by public officials or private interests; the adherence to due process of law in administrative procedures; and the absence of Government expropriation of private property without adequate compensation"

 The report explains that a system of positive law that fails to respect core human rights, guaranteed and established under international law is at best “rule by law”, and does not deserve to be called a rule of law system.

These are not my words but those of far more qualified professionals. To state that by identifying such facts as this "support your view that Spain is unequivocally evil and no-one should be allowed to enjoy it if you cant.  " is quite an extraordinary viewpoint which I take great exception to. The truth of the matter is that I, like many others, wish there to be a resolution to these awful circumstances relating to ongoing injustices and that the sooner this is accomplished the better for everyone's sake.

Campana

Of course we are seeking professional advice in fact that is what I'm trying to explain (obviously failing miserably!) that we have to pass on acquired knowledge, research and strive for solutions via all means at our disposal etc.

If I have offended anyone by this then I humbly apologise, but please do not make out that I have any other agenda other than to gather information to try and assist in some way to establish solutions.

I will leave it there.

What are you talking about, Robert.  I have always thought you were a voice of reason on here.

Ads: There is no need for you to apologise, Ads.  Your intentions would appear to be the best.  And of course I do not expect an apology from the abusers and insulters. You unfortunately get online bullies on forums. 

 A piece of unasked for advice Ads, and I will leave it there.  Try to distance yourself from those within your campaign who could sabotage your efforts because of their bad attitude and lack of self-control. 

All the best

Patricia

Goodstich...to quote the great philosopher Cyndi Lauper..

"I see your true colours shining through"

Both Patricia and i tried to present articulate and well-structured arguments on here, expressing sympathy for your position but  concern about how you and others conduct yourselves., hijacking discussions, accepting no dissent from your viewpoint etc......and as always with bullies and fanatics, when logic & reason overwhelm you,  you resort to juvenile actions such as name calling. I'm not sure whether rational people will pity you or dispise you...and frankly my dear I don't give a damn

Cove...now that's an ending

I agree Hammers.  Those are the tactics of the school-yard bully.

And, can you imagine, if an individual behaves that way towards a stranger on a forum, then how s/he must behave towards his/her unfortunate dear ones in 3D. 

Patricia