I see the Doom & Gloom Merchants have taken over the site again

Markfish

"I think you'll find the technical term is Moobs Techno"

Good name... I like it!

Don't like the thought of having Moobs though... that said... living in the Sun on the Costa Del Sol, eating the way the Spanish eat... won't be long!!!

Some people on this forum forget that bad news travels fast and yet persist in keeping on ramming it down our throats. Also they seem to think that keeping on banging the same drum in the same fashion, without any methodology or thought for creating a better system, endears them in the public eye of this forum!

We had a fire in our house six weeks ago, and lost our little dog Rosie, who was only 1 year and 1 month old, and yet we do not harp on about the bad news!

Thankfully we had our Spanish friends,who all rallied around us and gave us both so much help and support to pull us through what was a nightmare borne into reality.

Therefore, on the upside:

"Those friends thou hast and their adoption tried, grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel" - William Shakespeare

Technoape says "that keeping on banging the same drum in the same fashion, without any methodology or thought for creating a better system, endears them in the public eye of this forum! "

There's no sameness involved if the truth be known, moreover its a constant barrage of moving targets that we have to keep abreast of, to research and expose. In many respects ironically our job would be so much easier if it was constant Technoape ..... also there is methodology which requires major effort that goes on behind the scenes. We tend to identify updates as and when we have information to forward, but that does not mean that there isn't great debate and structure to much of our endeavours.

Please believe me when I suggest that we are giving great thought to the creation of a better system, trying to analyse the existing structure of the Justice system, their inspectorate mechanisms etc, and trying at every opportunity to be inclusive, but it is not an easy exercise given the wide self interests involved.

Anyway enjoy your weekends all......

Bless you all children. I don't know why i'm reading this thread,because I am adult and am reading all this juvanile, grow up you lot

 Patricia

Just a humble attempt to get people to stop and think for a moment before they get at each others throat, again, for no particular purpose but to get worked up. Works with my kids. Actually, now that I think about it....

As I say to the guys who bash the Ladies Football World Cup: If you don't like it, ignore it instead of  repeating the same opinion about the inferiority of the game ad nauseum. Positions have been drawn and there seems to be no shifting or convincing. So, what's the point beyond getting annoyed!

Mind you, Hammer had the right bait for the fish

Hammer, I see your ending and raise you one

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=some+like+it+hot+final+scene&aq=0&oq=Some+like+it+hot+final+scene

Very appropriate, don't you think?

Nice to see this thread has deteriorated like I'm sure it was expected from the initial comment.

campana, I think your comment is really inappropriate:

"I certainly think that all and any persons swindled on property transactions should take meaures to recover their money, and to so with the utmost enthusiasm, and to take PROFESSIONAL advice on how to go about that."

Don't you think people like Goodstitch and Keith, etc, have done that, and have been doing that for years?  If you knew what Goodstitch has been through, the whole court experience, etc, you would understand why signing a petition, which may seem trivial to you, is just another avenue to express the frustration and anger at having lost thousands of Euros, many years and not to mention the enormous strain these things place on families.

People like you and I are luckly.  Both the properties I bought were built so I have something to show for my money.  Thousands of others have not been so lucky and they will do whatever it takes, for however long it takes, to see justice being served, even if ultimately it may mean that they don't got all their money back, if any.

We, the lucky ones (and that is truly how I see it) should support those who have been swindled and conned very badly by a very corrupt system. 

It's not over yet for most people but if EOS can be used in any way to assist in the sharing of knowledge, new information and ideas then it has to be encouraged and not be regarded as a negative thing.

The amount of stick that I get from people when I write articles about what life is really like in Spain, or how corrupt town halls still are, etc.  Many people just don't want to hear the bad stuff, they want to think of Spain as perfect paradise.  For many it is but we must never forget that the system that has allowed many of to enjoy our properties in Spain has also massively failed many thousands of others.

Goodstitch, ads, Keith and everyone else caught up in this nightmare will ALWAYS have my support.  I have followed their cases over the years and hope that one day they will be starting a very positive thread with the good news we'd all like to hear.

To everyone fighting for justice, PLEASE continue to use EOS , it was set up precisly for this purpose...to bring people together to solve problems.

I haven't been monitoring threads so closely recently for reasons of time but I will do from now on to make sure that everyone has their say...good and bad.

Justin

Justin,

An enormous  'THANK YOU' for your post. I'm sure that Keith,Ruth,Suzanne and Ads who are working so hard towards a solution to the problems  will be reassured by it, although I'm quite sure they already know you are their staunchest supporter.

Goodstitch,as you say, has been to hell and back at the hands of the so called 'Spanish Justice System' and most of it was done without the information and support that EOS provides.He and many other  members who have been swindled by the system must have found this site a life-saver whilst floundering in their search for help with their individual problems. My sanity has definitely been saved from going under completely by visiting the site for information, particularly from Maria in the early days, and exchanging messages and emails with those similarly affected. 

Thank you once again Justin, I hope EOS goes from strength to strength (even in these reccessive times) and that it continues to help,inform and amuse us for many years to come.

 Stunned silence? It's a wrap then, everyone.

Justin, two final comments from me

1.I truly did not set up this thread as  a forum for EOS members to show their polarised views...I just simply wanted a thread that wasn't all doom gloom and negativity...if it descended into the slanging match that you expected, I would say that this is representative of a few individuals who cannot bear for the rest of us to focus on anything but their issues even for a moment and have to hijack other threads.....which brings me to my second comment

2.If you are serious in monitoring the comments on the site, then please  ensure that there is a balance in content, and maybe consolidate threads that cover the same issue so that when anyone logs on to EOS they get  a selection of topics...otherwise EOs is in danger of being a one-issue forum which would be a great shame..

Btw I really don't think that the vast majority of us who managed to purchase successfully  are "lucky"..in any given situation there will be people for whom things go well and people for whom they don't...that's more the law of averages than luck.

Hello all

thanks so much to those of you who understand what years of fighting your corner against so much injustice can do to you. It can make you blow your top now and again, and some posts just trigger that reaction. Yes, I was out of order with that post, I know that and I regret that personal attack, but I'll never understand anyone who isn't fully behind those who have been treated so badly by the Spanish system. All we ask is justice and support for it from everyone who knows the facts.

Sandra

I join you in thanking Justin for everything he's done and continues to do on EOS.  The forum is of course for everyone involved with Spanish property whatever their personal experience, and I understand those who feel that the bad news often dominates the forum. Like you though, I feel by supporting Keith, Ruth, Suzanne and Ads, in their efforts then EOS stands for what is right and understands the importance of the fight for change that should benifit everyone who reads EOS in the short and long term. When the table hopefully turns for so many caught up in the injustice now and in the future then I'm sure the mood of the forum will reflect that.

Again as you say, long may the site continue to help, inform, and amuse, it's doing a great job, while trying hard to keep a balance.

Hammersfan. If you look to the beginning of this thread all was pleasant until you brought up the subject of Justice and made bold untruths which deserved a response (which was given politely). I would suggest that you are provocative in your responses which was taken up by Cove "Hammer had the right bait for the fish ". This attempt to humiliate and belittle, together with generalisations and untruths is none other than bullying and appears to be an attempt to silence those striving for justice.

In terms of monitoring threads, when issues come to the fore it is essential that we identify them and give assistance where possible. The reason so many are taken up with justice issues of late is sadly because there are so many different aspects now coming to our attention, or that we are in the process of endeavouring to gain statistics and evidence, or that those involved are providing updates. There's much vulnerability within the EOS forum that requires help and assistance from those who may have experience first hand or can assist in their statistical evidence, and to sugesst that this has any other agenda other than to solve  problems and formulate a way forward to ensure that justice prevails, is yet another example of an unwillingness to fully comprehend the situation.

I understand the need to consolidate justice issues in one place as this was requested some time back, but equally bear in mind that when blatent untruths or bold generalisations are written then everyone has the right to respond. And hopefully respond in a civilised manner.

Thank you Justin for your fair approach.

Ads..please  give details of exactly what untruths I put on here?

You say that bold untruths deserve a response...ok, I agree entirely...........now,  I think that  your comment  "you .....made bold untruths" is an untrue statement itself, so on that basis I deserve the right to respond.

I do get angry when anyone who disagrees with you is seen as bullying or "attempting to silence those striving for justice"..what utter nonsense. I have said many times ..but you obviously  don't read my posts properly, that like any reasonable person I have sympathy for your situation, but I am just sick of having it rammed down my throat in every thread

Then as soon as anyone says "change the record guys"... you and your colleagues start screaming "Bully"...well what about the rest of us bullied into reading your opinions all the time.

 ads

First of all I don't really believe that Hammer went out of his way to provoke. I just did not get that feeling but that is just me. I thought things went quite well until the 20th post or so. Second, you are not a fish, are you?

I respect and understand the positions of people who are fighting for their rights and restoration of their finances. I too have had negative experiences that caused me financial problems and not little distress both in Spain and in France but I try not to be consumed by the situation. If I had not posted on this thread at a time when it was meant to create a bit of fun ,as I understood it, I would not have posted anything at all.

Please don't get me wrong but sometimes it is just better to chill for a little while or step back from a situation and to be honest I can't see how arguing on this forum aids your cause one bit. Unless of course one argues for the sake of arguing.It just drains you. And you are not seriously suggesting that anyone here is attempting to silence those striving for justice? So many big words and grand phrases. Not every comment has to be answered ( now, don't throw that back in my face, you hear!) not every imagined provocation has to be fought. So what I am advocating is a selective process by which you and others can be productive in your endeavour for justice. If you see a sea urchin don't step on it.

Maureen, if you are still reading this thread, this is for you

belated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4-JXB2yUU&feature=related

Cove Robert said

'' I respect and understand the positions of people who are fighting for their rights and restoration of their finances.''

If that is the case for everyone on this thread, then please understand also why even this thread title is so cruel and insulting to those who have not only  been so badly cheated, but are doing everything in their power to get justice for as many people as possible.  This isn't about opinions, it's far more serious than that, it's about hard facts and truths and the fantastic efforts of those mentioned who work so hard with their own time and money to change the dreadful injustice in Spain. How can anyone with any sensitivity just shove all those good people in a group and label them as ''doommongers''?.  These people are the salt of the earth for what they are trying to achieve, and should be given the respect that deserve by at least recognising why the fight must go on and why there are so many threads and posts that represent that fight. If the rest of us can at least support them in any small way by at least signing petitions, giving encouragement, writing to MEP's etc, then at least we show that we are supporting those so clearly in the right.

People's health, people's homes, people's relationships and many life savings are at stake here, so please everyone let's all work together on this and help those working for change and consider the feelings of all the victims.

Hammersfan,

I will reply to your request but  if you don't mind I will do so via a pm so as not to bore the socks off people.

We will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.

Cove,

Fish? Yes I am a pisces!

Thanks for your response. I do understand your observations. The very nature and magnitude of these injustices makes it very hard not to be consumed by the situation, especially when you know that these are real people that are suffering in the most awful of circumstance. But I take your point (again) that we cannot defend every instance. The point I wish to end on however is that if this was meant to be unprovocative, it was a very poor choice of title, but even given that, I assumed that by joining in with some humourous video footage it might have been accepted in a more lighthearted manner, (it wasn’t me that started the topic of justice, your honour )….. but such is life.

I will try again therefore and end on a humorous note:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az080LXT7FA&feature=relmfu

This message was last edited by ads on 11/07/2011.

Does anyone actually read the thread title and ALL the reply posts BEFORE replying!?!?!

And when I say read a reply post, actually read it all the way through to the end of said post!?!?!

Maybe people should do that - And you could start with my last reply if you like!

Then you may get a better perspective of life... whether you live in Spain or not... just think about what you have and enjoy it... before you loose it!

I have always supported those who have, for no fault of their own, fallen foul of the system - and those that know me, know that!

Lastly, I see doom and gloom all over the world, including here in Spain,  but as I have said before, it could be a damn sight worse - where ever you are!!!
 

Techno

Just to let you know how sorry I was to read that you have now lost little Rosie.  She may have been "only" a dog, but I know how sad we would be if we lost our dog Lisa under such circumstances.

One final request to everyone else: truce?

Sue

(Happily living in our new home in Spain, but still waiting to see if we will get any money back from the deposit we paid over 5 years ago!  You could say that we have a foot in both camps!)

One final request to everyone else: truce?

Fine with me Sue.

Just wish we could all work together with a common aim to solve these problems .........

ads

yes, not really much to ask is it?. The truth, the facts and the solution for many couldn't be much clearer.

I joined EOS quite a while ago and looked forward to joining in the conversations here on the forum.
But then I noticed that almost every thread was taken over by 'the doom and gloom merchants' and I thought, "what's the point in contributing?".
I reckon there are many EOS members like me.

Justin, I know you want to be fair and have the forum as a place where people can seek solutions for their problems as well as talk about 'the good stuff' (and lets face it, a forum full of good stuff can be very boring).

But being fair works both ways.
When a forum member asks a genuine question (one many of the silent majority would probably agree with), but gets accused of making negative remarks, I don't see that as being fair at all.

And Ads, I have read many of your comments (despite your 'wall of words' posting technique) and agree with your political stance on many things.
But this forum wasn't set up as your campaign headquarters.

People have many different concerns about moving to Spain and living in Spain. People are also naturally selfish and want to see their concerns addressed.
But comments focusing on one aspect of life in Spain marginalize all the other issues.

And TechNoApe, amidst the ongoing argument, I'm so sorry to learn about your little dog.

I've just looked down the threads on here  and can only see 3 doom and gloom threads thats not all or even most, hammers are not used to counting past  3 as the team he supports never score 3  lol