Builders versus owners - what can be done?

Does anyone know what could be done if a development was completed in autumn 2006, and the license of first occupation granted then, but even now, in June, 2007,  the pool is still dirty and not functioning,  the promised landscaped gardens are still to be seen, the potholes on the road are still there - and etc, etc...   Has anyone had a positive experience of persuading the builders and the maintanance people to do things properly?? Would be  very grateful for abyone who could point us in the right direction!

Do you have a community management company to go to or a community president yet?

Caroline

Hmm,

I suppose all you can do is try to get together with other owners and pressure your community managers for dates when things will be done.  Is your AGM coming up so you can vote them out?

"Has anyone had a positive experience of persuading the builders and the maintanance people to do things properly??"

YES!

Our community is now almost 4 years old, but we have been struggling to find a solution to the problem of the underground garage flooding when there is heavy rain, since day one. We have been pushed backwards and forwards between the developer/builder, and the water board/council who are responsible for the street drains, each trying to pass the blame to the other. We finally recently resorted to employing (at our expense) a professinal drain cleaning company to carry out a full investigation. Their study revealed hardened cement in the pipes under the garage floor, which can only have come from the construction of the building. Armed with this irrefutible evidence, our administrator and I (as president of the community), had a meeting today with the developer, who agreed straight away that they were responsible and will get the builder to rectify the problem. 

This is actually only half the problem, as this blockage prevents water draining efficiently out of the garage after the flooding, but the water coming in is still an issue, and we are still pursuing that with the water board. But at least it's some progress, and shows that persistence will (sometimes) eventually pay off.

The developer has also this week been to repair some broken floor tiles in a communal passage, which they agreed, after we presented a report from our building insurance inspector, was due to poor workmanship. At the same time, they re-fitted a large number of bathroom tiles in two apartments which were loose. As the building is now 4 years old, I think this is a bit of a result. I'm sure many developers wouldn't be has helpful. It has taken quite a bit of pressurising from myself, with the assistance of our administrator at times, but I hope this experience serves to encourage others and offer hope that if you keep pushing, eventually you may get somewhere.

Good luck all!

Hi All,

our property is overdue by some months now.  the builder has offered us our money back through our bank guarantee -  less 15% ( commission between builder and agent) and no interest.  after discussing this with my lawyer he says it is because we are cancelling the contract. he says they ( the builder ) are not in breach of contract until 24 months + 120 days after planning permit is granted. he faxed me a copy of this which was stamped 10/10/05. that means he thinks - - - - - are not in breach until approx 7/2/08. that is why they are prepared to offer me this deal now, because it'll cost them a lot more after 7th feb next year !

do you think this sounds fair / reasonable ? should i just wait until this date ? i don't think LFO will be granted for a year or two yet ?  the date for completion was supposed to be 1st feb 07.

the wording of the contract is set out below: quote:

  - - - - - S.A.U. undertakes to start the construction works refered to in paragraph 3 ( our property ) herein within a time limit of 120 days after the planing permission has been obtained and such works shall be completed within a period of 24 months after the beginning of the same.

The house shall be put at the disposal of the Purchaser within the time limit of a month after receiving the administrative authorisation for its occupation, except when there is fair consideration,  unquote

what should i do ? does the contract mean 24 months + 120 days or should the 120 days be included in the 24 months ? and even if it's the latter, by the time i pursued this through a court would i be wasting my time and be advised to let time take it's course??

regards,

ken

Hi Kennym

Bit of a dilemma for you.  We'd wait till after 7/2/08, seeing as your lawyer says what he does. You could always contact Maria de Castro, a lawyer who posts on here, for a second opinion. Good luck.

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA.

Lawyer

Director of  www.costaluzlawyers.es

As Morerosado says, maybe contact Maria (if she doesn't reply here anyway), but on first reading of your post, I would tend to agree with what your lawyer has told you already. If the planning permit was granted 10th Oct 05, they had to commence building by 10th Feb 06, and complete building within 24 months of that date, i.e. Feb 08. The date you were given of 1st Feb 07 was probably just the "expected" date of completion, i.e. the "ready" date for flogging the project through their advertising etc. Advertising Standards Authority? Trades Description Act? Whether these things even exist in Spain or not, I honestly couldn't tell you. I can only tell you , from my experience, that this sounds quite normal, and is generally accepted as being the "way it's done" here.

Why were you " offered" your money back (less commissions paid)? Did you ask to cancel and get a refund, or did the developer just come offering this deal? If so, could be because they think they could sell it to someone else for more now. If it was your request, due to the fact that you've waited longer than expected, I suppose you need to ask yourself some difficult questions. Is this still your dream home? Do you think you could find something better for the same price sooner, or already completed? Are you in a hurry, or can you afford to wait, possibly a lot longer for the LFO etc.? Can you afford to lose the 15% and interest lost? And probably many other questions only you can answer.

So many aspects of life in Spain come down to whether you have the patience to let things take their course. I too am waiting for a new property (albeit only a storage unit) which was supposed to be "ready" Dec. 06. The building is finished and awaiting it's LFO. I enquired a couple of times this year as to the status, and even pointed out that I would not be "occupying" the unit, therefore should not need to wait for the LFO (not recommended) but this particular developer does things by the book and will not sign over any properties, even garages or storage units, without the LFO, which is a stance I respect. I've been told probably October (after the local Feria is over!) and to tell you the truth, I've not even given it a second thought.

I would suggest waiting at least until Feb. if you can, and then review the situation again, but as I said, really only you know what is most important for you.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

Just in case anyone is interested in the continuing saga of our flooding garage, following on from my post a month or so ago "......We finally recently resorted to employing (at our expense) a professinal drain cleaning company to carry out a full investigation. Their study revealed hardened cement in the pipes under the garage floor, which can only have come from the construction of the building. Armed with this irrefutible evidence, our administrator and I (as president of the community), had a meeting today with the developer, who agreed straight away that they were responsible and will get the builder to rectify the problem."

Last week, after numerous cancelled appointments, the developer's representative visited our building together with the architect and the constructor, supposedly to discuss how they were going to resolve this problem once and for all. After debating amongst themselves for about an hour, the decison was that the construction had been done according to the plans (absolving the constructor of responsibility) and the plans adhered to all regulations (absolving the architect of responsibility), and all present agreed that it was "impossible" that there is cement in the pipes anyway, and even if there is, there's no proof it came from the construction of the building, so basically if we as a community feel like digging up the garage floor etc etc, feel free to do so.

So.....tomorrow I am going to the town hall with the administrator to check a) that the approved plans do in fact correspond to what was built, and b) that all regulations were in fact adhered to.

Oh the joys.......!!!!!!

What I want to know Roberto, is how you got the developer's representative to make an appearence !!

Countless phone calls, letters, e mails, personal visits and at least one directive from the court and the developer or anyone remotely conected, has  NOT turned up.

The latest response from the town hall, when we phoned to tell them that La Mirada was fast disappearing into the sea ( last time it rained heavily and we asked them to come and see )  'we can't come now, it's raining'.

*****??¿¿$$***!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"What I want to know Roberto, is how you got the developer's representative to make an appearence !!"

I honestly can't tell you. No secret, just the patience of an angel! Only took 4 years.

Last time we called the water board to come pump out our garage, they said they couldn't, they were too busy pumping out garages!