moving my mother to spain

Sorry things changed for you Gilly, but I think the world in general has changed for many people regarding care etc.  And I think you are right in saying that health care in the  UK will change in our lifetime.  I was speaking to a friend who runs a care home and he, along with many others have had to stop taking NHS patients as the government just aren't paying the required amount to keep an elderly person in care.  He is of the opinion that in the not too distant future such care may not be available under the NHS.  Who knows for sure though, maybe some other type of care home for the elderly may come into force under a different name.  It is however something which concerns my partner and I, but without that crystal ball it is difficult to second guess.  We are closely looking at India as a possibility ie Goa in particular as the country is forging ahead and even in the private sector it is relatively cheap to receive care, compared to the UK.  We do live in interesting times don't we lol?

Overwhelmingly, the posts show that it is a bad idea to bring a dementia sufferer to Spain.  If the daughter has already sold her house, and burnt her bridges then I can only wish her luck! It surprises me that she didn't seek advice from the horses mouth ie: the DWP , and it is clear that many other aspects of life in Spain had not been researched. Someone thought that 1500 euros per month was acceptable for a care home-it is less than the UK, but a lot of money to find-that's why i wrote that they needed to be wealthy to even contemplate moving to Spain. Also, what happens if one is unable to pay the fees? In the UK they wouldn't kick you out, but here? Please reconsider moving your mother to Spain-all the reasons against, posted by myself ( lived here 11 years) and many others are worth considering.  I've known people who have moved their relative back to the UK purely because of dementia, and the strain of caring for someone with it out here-wouldn't it be better to change your plans now, before it's too late?

Wise words camposol, and from someone who lives in Spain.  I must have missed the post on cost of care home. Looking back i see €1500 was quoted.  Well if you keep your powder dry in the UK this is still a whopping £1200 or so, and who knows how much that could change.  As you say here in the UK they wouldn't kick you out, but Spain who knows.

Most posters have strongly urged this lady not to take her mother to Spain, and I know if it were me who was asking advice at this late stage I know what i would do, loss of money or not.  Mind you me being me, i would never left such a monumental decision like this to the last minute.  Makes me wonder if this poster is genuine to be honest.  Though as they say, "there's nought so queer as folk"!

Personally anyone who comes out to Spain had better be financially independant - it is not cheap to live here unless you have money in the bank.  Health wise - the spanish rely on families to look after anyone who is ill - I've been in hospital - and would have been in dire straights if I didn't have a very attentive husband.  DON'T BRING YOUR MOTHER TO SPAIN!!!!

I also think anyone who brings young children out here is misguided - there are not the opportunities for young people here in Spain - and there is no financial help.  Schools expect parents to supply books etc - and children who are not fluent in spanish usually struggle - there are not the teachers to give individual help.

Most people who live here need to be healthy and relatively weathly  - in the U.K. - there are lots of benefits that can be accessed if you are ill - or out of work.  Maybe this is why most European immigrants want to go to the U.K. - it's their first port of call because they know they can access welfare, health care and after care etc. etc. etc.

Spain is a lovely place to live - but the u.k. tends to have a well developed system in place to care for the aging population - unlike Spain.

Hz- have you had a re-think about moving your mother to Spain, in the face of all the advice to the contrary? I and I bet many others, would love to here your decision about it, ( and the goldfish!)

No still not decided, have had 1 viewing on  our property in uk waiting to see if they make an offer. to be honest have been put off by peoples reactions.

but my mothers family have been hostile at the thought of me leaving her here,

and not sure if we could afford to live there with no work,

still undecided I am afraid.

 OK

It's a very difficult decision and nobody can make it for you.  I was interested by your comments about your mother's family being hostile to you leaving her - can't they help?  Why is it your responsibility?!  

I can only relate my own experiences when my mother had Alzheimer's.  Mum's sister and brother-in-law lived near her and they were very good to her, but they expected me to take leave from my job (without giving me much notice) to stay with her when they decided to go on holiday.  Mum lived in the north-east and I lived in London.  I don't drive so I had to pay for a train, which at short notice was a lot more expensive.  When I mentioned this, they commented "But you're buying a house in Spain so you have money!"  Err no, we will be selling a flat in London to live in Spain - we can't afford two homes!  

At the time I was under 60 and I needed my job to pay bills.  If I had been getting my pension then it would have been a lot easier.  My youngest daughter spoke to her employer about working from home, with the idea that she could have moved up north to be with her Gran and worked remotely.  Sadly, my Mum died of cancer before any of this could be put in place, however the point I am making is that everybody's circumstances are different and my Mum's family really had no idea about my circumstances. I think to this day they thought I should have moved up north, but financially it was impossible.

The only other thing that I would like to add is that I worked part-time so that, whenever I could, I took a long weekend and went to see my Mum, especially after she had to go into hospital and a care home.  I am very glad that I had that time with my Mum.  Being blunt, your Mum may not be with you much longer either, so make the most of your time with her.  IF you can afford to buy this property without selling up, then maybe buy it as a holiday home and move permanently when she is no longer with you.  It will be easier and cheaper to live in Spain when you both have your pensions (health-wise and income-wise).  We love living here, and have no regrets, but we moved here after my Mum died, which made it an easier decision.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

Sue

Thanks for your comments, I agree people don't know how hard it is, my mums family are elderly and hardly even visit her, but are very good at giving their opinions, my cousin stated that he would neve leave his parents behind, but he hardly sees them and he lives nearby, he also visits a seaside town  most weekends that he has to pass where my mum;s home is but has never visited her.his aunt.

Although my mum had dementia, she still recognises us its just dates and places and events she can't remember, and I do feel that in some ways the home has made her deterioate as she has no one sensible to talk to, when she lived with me she became a lot better, even started putting on make up, its just that she has always been a domineering person and to be honest could not live with her when I was younger as she is always telling you what to do and critising, but they say that with dementia it just exaggerates your personality.

my father did everything for her so when he passed away although she thought she could cope she could not and got herself in all sorts of trouble as she was gullible to what people told her particularly salesman, but was too stubborn to ask our advice.

have spoken with her and she says she would like to come with us, and  I do realy think she would like it, as shes been very adaptable to where ever shes been, its more could I cope with her,

someone has looked at our property so we will have to see, we may decide to wait till we are nearer reirement age, and my mum is no longer with us.

dont want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

Utter, utter madness to bring a sufferer of dementia to Spain.  Both my parents had dementia, my father specifically lived in Spain and it was a nightmare.  Does your mother understand Spanish to communicate with any local care you may get?  THINK VERY SERIOUSLY. 

Hz I have posted before on this subject as many others have also.  But you seem to be in some sort of denial concerning your mums condition.  If you love your mum then do the right thing by her and stay in the UK where she will at least stand somewhat of a chance of receiving care.  The Altzheimers Society here in the UK are very helpful and informative.   But of course if you want to be single minded/selfish then neither I nor anyone else can talk any sense into you.  But please bear in mind, you reap what you sow and sometimes our self seeking decisions have a nasty way of coming back and biting us in the ass big time. 

I don't get the impression that Hz is being selfish - just wanting to do the best for her Mum and not quite sure what to do so seeking advice.  Her Mum doesn't sound easy to live with, but HZ is still thinking of bringing her Mum over to Spain.  I admit that I felt guilty that I didn't move up north to be closer to my Mum, but financially it wasn't viable at the time.  If I had known how short a time she had, then I would probably have taken some unpaid leave so that I could go back to my job afterwards, but of course I didn't know.  That's the whole point.  My uncle and aunt used to make me feel guilty at times too, though they lived close to her and had a car, so it wasn't too difficult for them to keep an eye on her, which they kindly did.

In my opinion (and Hz will have noticed that most of us don't hold back from giving our opinions!) I think you should wait until you are nearer retirement age.  That way you won't need to feel guilty and I'm sure you won't regret it.  When you eventually move you can take comfort from the fact that you did the best for your Mum and you can enjoy your retirement with a clear conscience.

1500 euros per month is a fraction of UK costs , We have been in Spain nearly 4 years and find health service brilliant. We have a Spanish froend  trained in care to come every morning. Her English is fine and anyway mother in law is hard for us to follow her thoughts . we have cats she enjoys watching play  Marvellous weather she comments on every day as if it is a suprise. , she has her own room and TV and sees the many people who call. All her friends in UK have gone or are in homes . All i get are reports of how care homes in UK are going down hill and are expensive. Not ideal looking after elderley parent and I would much rather not have to do it,  Father of a friend of mine back in UK home and he doesn't do much and is given drugs to calm him down , He thinks he lives in the Pub!! Mother in law went to a garden party the other day and enjoyed herself. She has lunches out at sea front and her arthritis does not flair up in warmth. Personally if she was in a care home in UK our life would be better but my wife would be upset.

When we have to then we know of care homes her where staff speak English and there are other "patients" who speak English. At least their gardens can be enjoyed in the sunshine. and they are near enough to visit.

I know of many Scandinavians who come here in the winter. There is a British company setting up a care home here. If I had caoital i would set up a care home , people with reasonable pensions can afford care here , in UK it seems only the rich can.

I think there is an assumption that continuing care in a home here in the UK is a facility you automatically pay for.  If a person needs continuing care and doesn's have the means ie savings to pay for their care then a multi-disciplinary team will use a "decision support tool" to decide whether the person you look after is eligible for NHS continuing care.  I don't know if such a scheme exists in Spain, or whether everyone in Spain that requires residential continuing care automatically becomes liable to fund this themselves or a relative funds this.  If someone in the UK has assets ie savings or a property then the MDT assesses how much contribution towards the costs is required.  Even if it is decided the NHS will fund 100% the family do have a choice of which care home your loved one will reside at.  When the NHS works out any contributions that may be required they use a 4 year plan and then divide by this number to get the monthly costs.


 

Hi

I have read all your replies to this lady about taking her Mother to Spain. I think your replies have some validation but let me tell you from experience. We took my 83 year old grandfather with Dementia to live in Spain. These were 6 happy years for him. Yes a bit unsettling at first, it is for anyone. We spent days on the beach, lovely walks, beautiful weather and an abundunce for new pals for him. The care was excellent as was the hospitals. We had no other problems that we would not have hadf here. In the UK he would have been sat in a home day after day staring at walls, instead we gave him 6 happy years of freedom with his family.

Having Dementia is not a ticket to confinment. Life is too short to spend your last days in a reclining chair.

Oh and I would like to add if you have the strength to look after your loved one with dementia until they pass then Spain is great, after all you don't see many Spanish residents sitting in homes, it's all about the family!

How dare people say she is in denial of her mums condition. Those of you who choose to put your loved one in a home opposed to injecting some happy last days are deluded. One life no deposit no return. Make it worth it.!

The Spanish healthcare is excellent and although they reply on families to look after loved ones the support is great. This is experience not speculation.

Thankyou so much or your comments that has cheered me up no end I totally agree with what you say, in the right environment my mother could thrive, she was a lot better when she lived with me before, and has deterioated in the home as yes all she does is sit in a chair all day with bless them people like her. and some worse how can you exppect to be any better in that environment. i agree I put her there, but i looked at 12 homes before I chose and feel that I would not like to leave her here and not see her very often.

I would also like to add my Father lives in Spain, he had a stroke 3 years ago which has left him disabled. He continues to live there with great support from the health care and fantastic hospital tratment. He would not be able to do half the things he does in Spain, the weather, the people and the care he gets keeps it worth it for him!

Some very valid points have been made about environment.  My uncle and aunt told me that my Mum was worse than I realised, however when I took some leave and stayed with her she seemed more like her usual self.  I noticed though that when she was watching Countdown (one of her favourite programmes) she wasn't trying to guess the words, so I encouraged her to do so.  She was still able to get lots of words, so she just needed some stimulation.  She did start forgetting things but my younger cousin, who also lives on her own, said she did too.  Hz, only you know your Mum and only you can know what's best for her.  Good luck!

I watched my dad decline with this abominable illness and in the latter stage which lasted for over 4 years mum had to have him cared for full time as she couldnt cope, she was in her 70's herself and my dad, a once passive lovely man became violent and abusive.  He also would get out at night and was found many times wandering in the streets in the middle of the night.  Mum was advised not to lock the front door in case of fire.   My father was a very fit man and this was perhaps to his detriment as his organs were all extremely healthy and this kept him alive for so many years in the last stages.  There are various type of dementia/altzheimers and all i can say is anyone with my dads type a carer just wouldn't be able to cope on their own, absolutely impossible in any environment.

I was going to make the same point as the last post-it's all very well talking about thriving in a new environment and pursuing new interests in the sun, but Hz, your mum won't always be pleasantly confused, she may well become violent, incontinent, verbally and physically aggressive. If you employ someone as, a carer you will have to make sure they are qualified to deal with dementia-some kind lady willing to work for cash in hand won't do. Also under new rules you will have to supply a contract,social security payments, sick pay, holiday pay etc. even if they only work for a few hours. Will you both be working? In view of the current crisis and unemployment how secure will you be-that's why I said in the beginning of this thread that you would need to be very wealthy to provide care at home or residential. You still seem to be in favour of bringing her here, which surprises me in view if all the other posts which are more against the idea. If you do, and realise afterwards that it is a mistake, it will be really traumatic to go back.