Loss of Community Fee discount for breaking community rules

A situation I have found during my years living in Spain is that it is OK having rules within your community but enforcing those rules is a difficult matter without taking costly Court action.

In our community we receive a 20% discount on our community fees if we pay them within the month they fall due (March and September).  As a side issue I can confirm that this policy reduced late payment of fees considerably.   It has been suggested that we incorporate a rule at our next AGM that the discount be forfeited if an owner is in breach of a community rule.  On the face of it this sounds a reasonable suggestion but my concern is whether or not this would be enforcable and could the lost discount be reclaimed in the same way as a debt.

Does anyone have a view on this - many thanks helen177

helen

Could not agree more re Community rules being virtually unenforceable and for sure many of the Spanish know this.

Have been saying exactly the same for some time but not sure where a Community goes from here.

Interestingly we too are considering offering similar discounts on fees if paid either by dd or transfer on time after next AGM but we are also considering changing fees to quarterly rather than half yearly which they were set up as, it may ease the pain a little

Would be interested to know if you had any concerns or problems introducing this idea.

We also find that many Spanish do not agree with or pay the 20% surcharge that is approved at every AGM for late payments so if they do pay their fees, the surcharge remains on the account and remember, discounts or fines may well be too small to chase legally.

I think the idea of increasing the fees and offering discounts to be far more sensible, not sure however if you could incorporate breach of rules, presumably you would need 100% agreement and whilst failure to pay is straightforward, is every breach of a rule as easy to control?

What happens if apartment is let to tenants who flout rules?

Are rules, strictly interpreted or guidelines with a degree of flexibility, even common sense?

No expert but just expressing a view

 Hi Hugh,

Thanks for your comments.

When we first arrived in the community 13 years ago the discount system already existed but at the rate of 10%.  Some owners began paying late and so the system was changed to a 20% discount about 4 years ago with a majority vote at an AGM, with payments having to be made in the month of March or September.   This has made owners pay on time in the majority of cases.   The only thing I would say is that you do need the administrator and President to be on the ball, checking the community bank account to keep a careful eye on when payments are actually made, and there have been one or two situations where there has been confusion.  On the whole though a good system.

The particular problem that instigated the potential new rule about loss of discount is that some owners, despite letters having been sent to them and rules being in place, still persist in letting their dogs run loose on community areas and foul on the grassed areas.

Good win for Man Utd today.

Hola helen

Yes indeed great win for the Reds.

Thanks for your comments, yes I agree as President along with my auditor we are keeping a very close eye on debtors, banks etc. as we have a number of issues with Administrators but it is not an easy thing to change.

We have only been going for 5 years so are still learning but I am determined to make this change as you did, it makes complete sense and hope to have similar success as you but I fear there are both serial debtors who almost dare you to try the legal approach as well as debtors who are not able to pay due to circumstances as has been discussed on previous threads.

Once again, those who can afford it may get discounts, those most in need end up paying full fees or going to court eventually.

Like you we get a number of owners who completely ignore letters pointing out the rules or trangressions. many of our problems arise from long term tenants of owners who are more interested in receiving some rent rather than following Community guidelines

Animals and/or pets are certainly a similar issue in our Community but can you be sure of which owners do not clean up after their animal? Or indeed which animal left the mess if not with its owner.

Local Town halls are supposed to be tough on dog mess but have no funds or power to enforce those laws but I wish you luck, it could start a trend if you are indeed able to hit trangressors where it hurts, let us know how you get on, please.

What is the advice and view of your Administrator on this issue?

Yes, unfortunately, there is no other external way to solve Community problems and disagreements than going to Courts, which, at the moment are proving being very unconvenient for this type of problems ( delays, Court fees)

My advise is to submitt the disagreements to the authority of  neutral legal person ( arbitrator or mediator) so you do not need to bear with Court costs and timeframes.

We offer that service in Costaluzlawyers:  http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/community-of-owners 

 Interesting thread on the application of discount for community fees.

Firstly it is important that a formal meeting votes by majority to increase the fees by the prescribed percentage and that this forms part of the annual buget by being mirrored in the same.

This then takes away the right of dispute from any member refusing to pay this proportion when late as it is a annual community quota total fee .The community accounts should reflect the use of the proportion of fees without discount to it's overheads or reserve fund.

The discount  terms should be carefully recorded in this minute particularly with regard to the settlement qualification.

For example if a member has given a direct debit instruction to the administrator ; is the application for funds on the due day the trigger or are the funds to be clear by the due day.In some cases it can take up to 90 days before the bank release all the funds when applied for by direct debit. So the community will have these funds shown in there account but blocked & can not use them for the period awaitng clearence.I prefer a standing order from the member as it is cleared on the day of receipt  & attracts less costs to the community banking facility also it does not give the member any opportunity of reversing the transaction once in progress.

As Helen points out the management board with the administrator must be on the ball in checking the community account .

In terms of removing the discount for a breach of rules this is a fairly complex situation & quite intriguing. 

The management board is effectively judge & jury but there is nothing in the LPH to rely upon. I beleive the civil code of Spain would over rule this action if challenged in court. The community could then have to compensate the member & pay their legal costs. Hence I would recommend any President to make sure he had the majority of his total quota vote for this in a formal meeting as a minimum for his own protection. If it could be introduced to the community statutes ( difficult as it would need a 100% quota vote) then I think it could have a greater chance to be sucessful given the statutes have solid legal footings when there is nothing to contravene them in the LPH. Again the Civil code code though may over rule this .

As Maria points out a lower cost can be acheived in disputes by using a legal arbitrator if both agree. The consumer rights office can also take up matters for  the public with out charge & are present in most main towns as part of the Ayuntamiento as a normal.

Interesting topic although no difinative conclusion.

Regards

F.Parkinson  Administradore