View on Bullfighting, should it be banned?

 When I first came to Spain I have to admit I hadn't really thought about it in detail but it was something that really intrigued me and I wanted to discover more. You can't really imagine how you feel until you see it in person and up close and the first time I saw a bullfight I was taken back by it, especially the point when they definitively kill the bull by cutting his spinal chord behind his head, it's one part I still haven't got used to yet. I have always been one for soaking up history and tradition and what I did notice was that there was much more to bullfighting than initially meets the eye. It is not a just a question of killing bulls. I have always been an animal lover but funnily enough I am not against bullfighting nor am I great fan, I enjoy going from to time. It is not a sport like fox hunting or a horrible event like dog fighting which unfortunately still goes on and is an archaic and gruesome past time for some. I don't see bullfighting under the same light and I am sure some will say that I have double standards but I see it as an art form and a ceremony, even a way of life for many, it is a culture and not just "cruel" entertainment as some may see. Yes the bull mostly suffers for about 40 minutes but to reach that stage it has been pampered for it's entire life unlike any other bull on the face of this planet. You could say it is a cruel end for these animals, but the truth is if this end didn't exist no bull on earth would be treated in the same way. This is not a justification, it is just the way it is and the fact that they are treated and fed well before hand doesn't give them the right to sacrifice the bull in the ring, I know, but there are endless reasons for being against bullfighting especially if you don't get to understand it and it is very complex and takes an enormous amount of courage to put yourself in a ring with a 650kg+ bull, even if it has been weakened prior to the event, they are still incredibly dangerous. Ask any bullfighter if they are nervous before they face a bull. I have seen this subject appear on a few threads recently and I thought it would be interesting to hear other people's view on this. I am a Spanish culture lover and Bullfighting is without a doubt a major part of Spain's identity, if it were banned completey as they did in Catalunya, I think it would be a real shame. Any views?

no

its culture and entertainment

When ever i read something like this....should it be banned...i cant help thinking of that old girl Mary Whitehouse, the self proclaimed saviour of everyone about what people should and shouldn't watch.   She would sit right through a porn movie, or not so clean programme, maybe once even twice, and declare, protest, go on TV to tell everyone  "You must not look at stuff like this, it needs to be banned".

It goes on in Spain, it's spain's life style, don't think about it, it might never change, don't go.

I am NOT comparing you, the first poster of this of being anything like Whitehouse.

I believe that banning things is usually counter-productive, but it should be allowed to die out naturally, which it will eventually as a growing number of young Spanish people are strongly opposed to it.    Attendance at bullfights has been falling steadily for years.

Unfortunately it is kept alive artificially by government subsidies and lobbyists from the bull breeding industry, which is very lucrative.

Yes, I think it will die out and should not be subsidised; let it sink or swim.  In addition, I believe the bull should be giving a fairer chance; as it stands it is not really bull-fighting, but bull slaughter.  Maybe if the ones tormenting the animal got a bit more of their own medicine now and again, it would die out more quickly.  I've never been in favour of maintaining traditions or customs, just for the sake of it.  This would logically meant that if it is the tradition of a country to cut off the hands of people who steal or stone women for committing adultery and we live in that country, we should be shut up and refuse to comment, because that is the way of that country.  It has been apparent for years that many Spanish people do not share the same values as others with regard to the treatment of animals.  This is why so many expats have set up charities to try and stop the cruelty towards dogs.  Personally, I don't have a strong feeling for bulls, but I don't like to see anything so cruel and so unfair going on.  The bull doesn't get any choice in the matter, does it?

 "This would logically meant that if it is the tradition of a country to cut off the hands of people who steal or stone women for committing adultery and we live in that country, we should be shut up and refuse to comment, because that is the way of that country" 

These actions do not relate to 'tradition' - they are based in fundamental religious belief and, if you did live in a country which effect those punishments, you would have no choice but to 'shut up and refuse to comment', or you would be very quickly removed from that country!

Somewhat removed from the bullfighting tradition of Spain and, indeed, several other countries where bullfighting still takes place.

 Oh I'm sorry - I thought that as a general rule the UK does stand back and shut up about the stoning of women - except when the Daily Mail gets hold of a story.   We also stand back and watch a whole plethora of human rights abuses in China - and reward them with the Olympic games.   And I am pretty sure we have ignored for years the routine gang rape of young women across the subcontinent - until the recent case sparked demonstrations there.  And all for the sake of trade...............

And until we all became a bit phobic about Islam post World Trade Centre, we turned a blind eye to forced marriages, grooming of young white girls, honour killings etc etc.   While I agree generally with Pitby's response, arranged marriages are rooted in tradition, which does lead to forced marriages.  

Bullfighting?   It is a tiny  part of Spanish culture - that is CULTURE, as has already been pointed out it is an art form.  If you don't like it - look away - we are all good at that!!!!!

And cruelty to animals generally?  Talk to the RSPCA and other charities.

hi

what the hell has islam and stoning ** EDITED -Offensive- Against forum rules ** got to do with bullfighting?

Cut it out Mungry.  A lot of the users on this Forum are women and you're using offensive, sexist language. 

In terms of the bull-fighting argument, isn't there one other person on the Forum willing to stick up for the bulls?  This is a very one-way thread.  You wouldn't all be so indifferent to them, if you were one yourself.  There's a distinct lack of imagination and empathy.  Empathy isn't something just reserved for human beings.  I've got my lovely doggy next to me as I write and if anyone wanted to stick knives into her and then let her bleed to death, they'd end up in prison.  Why are bulls different?

I have made my views know several times but to answer Eggcups plea I've copied and pasted my previous post on this subject. I would add I'd rather have the bull than some of the bullspeakers on here! Hopefully as Sapin drags itself into the 21st century the next generations will reject this cruel activity which I refuse to call culture, sport or artisitc. I would also ask the pro or indifferent lobby what would you do if you passed someone sticking knives and then twisitng them in a dog, donkey whatever on the street, walk on by or try and stop them because it's barbaric and cruel. Just because it's in a bullring with a fancy dressed ***+++*** sticking the knives in a bull doesn't make it any better.

http://www.costa-news.com/costa-levante-news/item/680-the-voice-of-the-streets

The usual stock phrases such as 'it's Spanish culture, expats can't expect it to change for their sensitivities' bla, bla, bla, really, really annoys me. Cruelty inflicted on any creature anywhere should not be tolerated by anyone considering themselves civilized in the 21st century. It's nothing to do with culture it's plain and simple cruelty. There are many organization in Spain, organized by Spanish people trying to improve the plight of animals who are ill treated, and yes there is animal cruelty everywhere and yes there are some papmered pets in Spain but it's all a matter of degree and Spain is a very cruel place. The galgos are particular victims of this cruelty and it's not just a matter of them being treated as working dogs they are treated appallingly and there is enough evidence to support this. Please stop deluding yourselves, it does exist, Spain is a cruel place and trying to pretend it's OK because it's Spain or it's really not so bad does not change that fact. even if it makes you and your conscience feel a bit better. What animal welfare laws there are are woefully inadequate and barely enforced. Would I live close to a bullring, absolutely not, but I will support any organization trying to stop this barbaric torture of living creatures.

Thanks Poppyseed.  You've summed it up brilliantly.

 I support Galgos del Sol and I support a local animal charity.  I do not delude myself that it makes any difference except to the lucky animals which  are supported and rehoused through these excellent chariites.  Personally, I feel that non Spanish people going on about bullfighting makes matters worse.  A bit like the Americans and the gun laws in that many ordinary Americans may want tighter laws, but what really gets up the nose is Europeans telling them what to do!!!  I have not noticed anyone on this thread trying to say that cruelty to animals does not happen in Spain.   But at least the people who go to bullfights go for the 'show'.   I do not understand what the badger baiters and the dog fighters in the UK get out of their choice of cruelty.   It is the holyier than thou attitude which I object to from a lot of Brits in Spain - and I am not in general talking about these forums - which I actually think are now just for a bit of sport and banter!!!!!!   Perhaps now we have a Papa Francis - Catholics everywhere will be kinder to animals (that is very tongue in cheek before anyone takes offense!!)

 Wow the voice on the street managed to round up 5 girls, that must have woken up the public opinion? The fact is even if 5000 people went out on the street in protest it wouldn't mean anything. The vast majority are in favour or don't care which is pretty much the same thing from an activist's point of view. 

I do think comparing Bullfighting to deeply religious punishments a bit incongruent. Obviously no one in the civilised world could agree with chopping hands off or stoning women and I am sure if people felt there was a way to change this they would. But this is not the thread to be discussing human rights. We can discuss animal rights and let's be honest no one treats their dog in the same way as a human otherwise they wouldn't have one as a pet. So which ever way you look at it animals are animals and humans are humans. They are not equal and the animals know that and so do we. Bullfighting is not a sport, there is absolutely no element of competition, it is an art form whether you consider it art or not is a question of taste and that goes back 3000 years, so it is very much tradition and culture. The problem is that when you look at certain animals like dogs, horses and rabbits that the Brits consider pets and expect strong welfare laws, other cultures just see food or work animals and don't share that empathy thus don't lay down the law, although times are changing. 

Cruelty inflicted on any creature anywhere should not be tolerated by anyone considering themselves civilized in the 21st century. It's nothing to do with culture it's plain and simple cruelty. 

I asume you are a vegetarian.. have never killed a cockroach and wouldn't dream of placing a mousetrap... everything is relative isn't it. Does the size of the animal make a difference? I don't see anyone protesting when someone wrings the neck of  a chicken or cuts up a lobster while it is still alive and kicking. Is Spain a  cruel country, no it isn't by any means it is the most generous and charitable country in Europe. There are a few people who mistreat grey hounds but that happens all over the world unfortunately it is the problem with the breed, when they are no good for running anymore what do they do with them, sadly mistreat them and abandon them. Why? becasue the majority of the population couldn't care less, they don't see dog's under the same light. Are they cruel for that? In fact the way we treat dogs puts us in the minority world wide. Are Koreans cruel for eating dog? But that has nothing to do with bullfighting, here they live a life of bliss and then go down fighting, if they do it well and bring out the best they even get sent home.Of course they don't have a choice, but which animal does. None of my dogs chose me to be their owner I took them and made them mine, as does everyone.  I am a dog lover, I've had 5 dogs in my time but it never crossed my mind to compare a dog raised as a family member, eventhough there were inferior in the ranks, to a bull raised for the lidia. They are different worlds. Put it this way, the perfect life then the bull ring or a miserable cruel life then the slaughter house. Because a bull can't aspire to much else can it .... I don't see anyone taking a bull for a walk these days. However, either way they end up on the table or the barbecue.