If the UK were to give back Gibraltar, what would the Spanish do with it?

I've been asking myself and my Spanish friends this question all week(they don't have a clue btw) after following all the "problems" on the Gibraltar border, which is being discussed in another thread, (a smokescreen in my opinon) but if it were to be returned to Spain, would it still be a "tax haven"? Would if still follow Common British law as was arranged with Hong Kong? Would the companies flee? Gibraltar's economy is 100% services and is completely self-sufficient. Gibraltar benefits from an extensive shipping trade, offshore banking, and its position as an international conference center. Tax rates are low to attract foreign investment. The British military presence has been sharply reduced and now contributes about 7% to the local economy, compared with 60% in 1984. The financial sector, tourism (almost 5 million visitors in 1998), gaming revenues, shipping services fees, and duties on consumer goods also generate revenue. The financial sector, tourism, and the shipping sector contribute 30%, 30%, and 25%, respectively, of GDP. Telecommunications, e-commerce, and e-gaming account for the remaining 15%. 

2013 saw a 7,8% growth in the GDP taking it to 1.226 Billion Pounds

This said, would Spanish control kill a perfectly thriving economy and turn Gib into a real rock or just a holiday resort or do you think they would find a way of piggy-backing the progress Britain has made  over the years....Maybe it would be the answer to Rajoy's problems with Eurovegas, move the project to Gibraltar!

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I don't think you can fully compare Hong Kong and Gibraltar from an economic perspective. the scale and size are totally different and they are playing in totally different leaguues.

Furthermore, Hong Kong was (and still is) a powerhouse in its own right, with a lot of inward investment and innovation. Unless I'm missing something, Gibraltar only really attracts business by being a tax haven. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but there's nothing unique about it either.

For me the question is more, does Spain genuinely want Gibraltar? I venture to say no. If the UK were to unexpectedly hand Gibraltar over to Spain tomorrow, Spain wouldn't have an idea what to do with it. Demanding sovereignty over Gibraltar is old fasioned rhetoric for attracting attention and throwing out the toys. And it works because they know they won't succeed and so this useful attention grabbing device will never be lost to them. If Spain had Gibraltar, she would instantly see her claim to Ceuta and Melilla weakened for a start. I don't think she would want that.

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I agree, one can't compare Gibraltar to Hong Kong, my only intention was to use it as a possible model scaled down if Spain were to recover the rock. More for legal issues than anything else. I too think that it is very unlikely but Spain seem to be pushing for Argentina's support so they can create a joint campaign for Gib and the Falklands. I think they are going too far and it is quite possible that it gets out of hand unecessarily. Rayoy want to take it to the EU and Margallo seems to be loosing the plot. I see your point with Ceuta and Melilla...

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I do not think this is a fair question, because we are talking about a place with people living there, and we need to respect them.

We are not talking about a company or an object, but really about a country. So, we should really leave it up to the people who live there to decide what they believe is best for them, and what they want.

Many countries dispute various regions around the world, but at the end of the day, I personally believe that it should be up to these people to decide their own faith and future.

Always through civilised, peaceful means.

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I don't see why the question is disrespectful. But I think we need to be realistic here, Gibraltar is hardly a country , if it were a country then maybe we would be discussing independance from the UK. Unfortunately the people who live there will only ever decide when the UK knows what the result will be and only when it is favourable for the UK. With these territories the people never decide, it's a political and military decision. It just happens that the locals agree this time to stay British. In an ideal world the people should vote but when it's an international dispute the claiming party couldn't careless they just want their land back and everything with it.

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Under the Treaty of Utrecht signed in 1713, Gibraltar was ceded to Great Britain for as long as Great Britain wants to keep it. 

 

I understand that if there came a time when Great Britain no longer wanted Gibraltar then it must be returned to Spain

 

Thus the notion that it can become anything but a British Overseas Territory does not exist.  It cannot be ‘given’ to the Gibraltarians.

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I agree, undoubtedly it was Spanish land, but was ceded permanently to the UK so it will only ever be given back to Spain never its inhabitants. As to the question I think Spain would be rather lost as to what to do with Gibralter. One of its main reasons for pressuring Gibraltar is because it is a tax haven, so if it were to recover this land it would have to eliminate this causing the vast amjority of businesses to flee. If the businesses flee, so do the workers and their jobs. What would they be left with?  A small town and a tourist destination with an economy that would be absorbed, where possible, by the central government. Mind you, that comment on Eurovegas isn't that far-fetched. Rajoy now is desperately looking for a way to accomodate the project, but it entails bending the law to make it happen, something he can't be seen to be doing, laws such as  smoking in public places, prohibition of entry to gambling addicts, working hours and labour contracts,tax reliefs etc It would also facilitate maintaining the online gambling licenses that are registered there, something that could never be done in Madrid as is planned because it would mean creating a "free-zone" so to speak in the capital. Gibraltar could easily become Spain's "free-zone" or "zone under special administration", the borders already exist, the infrastructure is already there and the local workers are probably better prepared in terms of languages and experience and dealing with tourists than those from Alcorcon. I think the only issue would be that there may not be enough land, but that could be recovered from the sea and I'm sure the Spanish tax payers wouldn't mind paying for that one :) Obviously this wouldn't take into consideration what the Gibraltarians want, but Spain doesn't care what they want as they are not Spanish, its just the land they walk on that they want. Nonetheless it is all hypothetical and will never happen as the UK will never give back the Rock unless Spain decides to destroy its economy by cutting off air-space, blocking sea routes and slowing down border controls even more, which would sound to me more like non-violent acts of war, something they should definitely not do...but are discussing at the moment.

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I wouldn't be overly concerned about Spain teaming up with Argentina. Christina Fernandez has just taken a fair beating at the polls, showing the people of Argentina are no longer as charmed with her as they once were. As for Rajoy, I think he'll come off his high horse sooner rather than later.

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Seems rather odd to me why they think the rock is thiers.

What about the two enclaves spain own in Morroco, they don't seem to keen to hand them back.  300 years they have belonged to the UK, "Get over it and think about your dying economy"

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The only really sensible bit of journalism on the topic I've come across so far:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/cameron-offers-military-aid-to-spain-2013081478625

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This is, I believe, a balanced view, but it is in Spanish........ http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2013/08/17/espana/1376714855.html......... ‘Bing Translations’ will proved a reasonable English version if you need it.
This message was last edited by elaineG on 22/08/2013.
This message was last edited by elaineG on 22/08/2013.

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This is a good article with lots of information not usually published .... from yesterday's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/14/gibraltar-falklands-deny-logic-history

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Seriously? Are we really "a colony that most Britons regard as awash with tax dodgers, drug dealers and right-wing whingers"?!

I didn't find any information not previously published, just misinformation such as "The Gibraltarians have rights, but why British taxpayers should send warships to enforce them..." Anyone who's been following the news will know that the ship(s) heading to Gibraltar have nothing to do with the current dispute. I find this "wholly daft" journalism.

"Gibraltar's status as a tax haven has brought it surging wealth, fuelling Spain's rage at so much money pouring untaxed through what it regards as its own territory." And therein lies the rub. That's probably the only sensible statement in the whole piece. Unfortunately (for Spain) it's not their territory, and anyway, they should be worrying about all the untaxed money floating around even closer to home. 

But surely the best bit is the addendum right at the end: "This article was amended on 14 August 2013. It originally stated that the US department of state had called Gibraltar "a major European centre of money laundering". In fact, it was referring to Spain."

Say no more!

By the way, when are the Canaries ever going to become part of Morocco? After all, don't they "deny the logic of geography"?

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If returned to spain they would in no time assimilate it into Andalucia & it would be bankrupt & destitute &  living off the government money obtained from the better off regions , as they do now.

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