Spanish court suspends demolition of British couples home pending the outcome of an appeal to the ECHR

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While this has to be good news for them and many others, and for Spain, as it was said if you want to sell millions of house's get this sort of thing sorted out, you do have to wonder would they have done this in the UK, most likely no, the house was built in 2009 with no planning permission only on the promise of getting it in 2002....…Hells bells you struggle to sell a car in the UK on the promise that you will get the £250 road tax later on, but build a house without permission...I'll have two.

 

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Hi baz1946....  The property was finished in 2002 WITH planning permission. The planning permission was subsequently revoked by the regional government resulting in a demolition order in 2009.

A strange concept to get your head around if you come from the UK but sadly true and sadly not uncommon in Spain.

 

 

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Hi baz1946....  The property was finished in 2002 WITH planning permission. The planning permission was subsequently revoked by the regional government resulting in a demolition order in 2009.

A strange concept to get your head around if you come from the UK but sadly true and sadly not uncommon in Spain.

 

Thanks for explaining it further, can now see what the problems are if this goes on, all sounds highly illegal and very dubious on Spains part to say the least. Trouble is we keep hearing of this going on and almost every time some sort of story arises whereby the buyers skipped many rules in the hope they never got found out. Still thanks for explaining further.

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I wish you all the best in your fight for justice and good to hear that this court “has demonstrated a more sensitive approach to issues of international law and human rights”.

There are many who have little concept of the struggle and resilience required to overcome so many legal obstacles, let alone the research and intellectual capacity required to communicate the detail, analyse and formulate longer term solutions (http://www.almanzora-au.org/ ) and in that process no doubt influence a change in stance as demonstrated in this latest precedent. Your endeavours are inspirational and you so deserve a positive outcome.

Innocent consumers appear to have been treated as pawns in a battle between local and regional governments. It’s incredulous to think that so many have been portrayed as somehow complicit in this scandal of urban abuse.

Stay strong and good luck to all concerned, including your legal team.

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Thanks for explaining it further, can now see what the problems are if this goes on, all sounds highly illegal and very dubious on Spains part to say the least. Trouble is we keep hearing of this going on and almost every time some sort of story arises whereby the buyers skipped many rules in the hope they never got found out. Still thanks for explaining further

 

Yet another misinterpretation by good 'ol Baz. I love the way you jump to conclusions that all property speculators/investors are up to no good and trying to pull a fast one! I don't know why you can't see the level of corruption in Spain. For some reason you like to ignore that for your own agenda...

 

I'd also love to see these examples 'almost every time' that happen to these people whose homes are being knocked down. I personally haven't heard or read of any. The only examples I've read of have been entirely the corrupt local authority giving planning permission on false pretenses.

 

 

But, anyway, great work so far by AUAN and others. Surely the ECHR will put a block on this? I mean it is their home and every one has a human right to live in it, don't they?

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The  appalling and very sad case of the Prior's must be one of the most famous and anyone with any interest in Spain must have heard of it and they certainly didn't didn't try to skip any rules.

 

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Yet another misinterpretation by good 'ol Baz. I love the way you jump to conclusions that all property speculators/investors are up to no good and trying to pull a fast one! I don't know why you can't see the level of corruption in Spain. For some reason you like to ignore that for your own agenda...

 

I'd also love to see these examples 'almost every time' that happen to these people whose homes are being knocked down. I personally haven't heard or read of any. The only examples I've read of have been entirely the corrupt local authority giving planning permission on false pretenses.

 

Yes I did get the wrong end of the stick in this instance and if you can read you would also read that I answered back with a thankyou for explaining it further, and why your at it read the post from AUAN and then work on the figures posted to see in the first light how they dont completely add up.

"Yet another misinterpretation by good ol Baz" glad to know your at least reading what I post, and gimme some more of these 'Misinterpretations' that you mention and read about from me, so one misinterpetation of what was posted makes me jumps to conclusions that all speculators/investors are up to no good then, I think the meds your on are screwing you about a bit, either that or to much sun.

I export tons of stuff to Spain every year, so when you want a good ol lesson of corruption in Spain, just ask, or would you rather just stay as being the one now jumping to conclusions?  what makes you think that your the only one who can see any corruption in Spain then?

The examples you wish to see are very plain and widely known about, if you haven't seen / read or heard of any then I can only suggest you get out more and stop relying on information from forums.

 

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Hi ads,

Thank you for your kind words of support. It is much appreciated and I will pass it on to our members who, together with the members of other associations SOHA and AUN are financially supporting this case. 

There are a large number of similar cases in Spain but not all cases are eligible for the ECHR. We are interested in hearing from anyone who thinks that they may have a case subject to satisfying the following criterion set out by the ECHR......

You must have used all the remedies in the State concerned  that could provide redress for the situation you are complaining about (usually this will mean an application to the appropriate court, followed by an appeal, where applicable, and even a further appeal to a higher court such as the supreme court or constitutional court, if there is one).

 It is not enough merely to make use of these remedies. In so doing, you must also have actually raised your complaints (the substance of the Convention violations you are alleging).

You have only six months from the date of the final decision at domestic level (generally speaking, the judgment of the highest court) to lodge an application. After that period your application cannot be accepted by the Court.

If a reader feels that their case meets the above criterion please get in touch at info@almanzora-au.org.

 

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"You have only six months from the date of the final decision at domestic level (generally speaking, the judgment of the highest court) to lodge an application. After that period your application cannot be accepted by the Court."

This is yet again proof of the imbalance relating to time constraints within the Spanish system of Justice as there are NO TIME CONSTRAINTS on Courts, Judges and Magistrates, whereas innocent parties are being subjected to compromising  time restrictions and deadlines every step of the way.

As for the submission of complaints, is it not the responsibility of the lawyer representing their client and knowledgeable in this regard, to submit complaints whenever necessary, as standard practice, to ensure their client is protected and meets the criteria that you have identified?  Surely the client cannot be expected to be fully knowledgeable in this regard? Do you see this as part of the lawyer's "due diligence"?

This message was last edited by ads on 06/09/2013.

This message was last edited by ads on 06/09/2013.

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Really great to see that the EU is now involved in this sort of thing. Andalucia needs to get sorted out on these types of outrageous abuses on property. The more that the Spanish government gets pulled into these issues will help,to push them towards following EU rules and regulations properly all the time.

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Another program on the British ITV - 'Tonight' - is due out next week. This will show how the issue of these houses: planned, licenced, promoted, built and sold (only then, once the cheque had cleared, to be declared 'illegal') has caused so much grief and distrust in the 'Spanish dream' for retired people. Perhaps the new president of Andalucía will be a bit more open to the region becoming a legal and viable residential destination again. Jobs, too!

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Maybe the property DIDN'T have planning permission. It only does so if the PGOU under which it has been given permission by the Ayuntamiento has been fully approved by the planners in the Junta de Andalucía. It's likely to be because it hasn't that the Junta has had to declare the property illegal. If that is the case, blame the solicitor or other advisor to the house buyer. They didn't do their job properly. Ask all the owners with problems in Marbella. That's how they got caught out. Follow the money trail paid for the house and all who benefitted from it in some way and you'll find the guilty parties. They are the ones who the legal action for compensation and damages should be against and not contesting the action that the Junta was obliged to take. If there are planning laws, then they have to be enforced or its anarchy.

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Murcia region Is just as bad, I bought a fully completed built house then found out it was illegal, banks will not loan money on it I have been trying to sell for 7 years  I paid  euros 228,000  it has elec contract with IBODROLA  Have been renting in uk as it was necesary to return to uk now all my savings gone --the Spanish inbuilt system of allowing illegal building to happen has made me broke,  the authorities see it going on and are content to let it carry on there are about 200 others in my area but I believe most employed a builder, unlike myselve mine was allready built.

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Twogun, It's not an inbuilt system as millions of people do successfully buy and sell property without problems. Your problem has been that you haven't been advised by a competent person with professional conscience or any compassion for yourself. They have taken your money and not given you the advice you need with the probable excuse that you "didn't ask" when of course you didn't know to ask. All the information was there for those who know where to look. Unfortunately, the Colegio system of professionals tends to make them support each other 'right or wrong'. However, it is possible to find solicitors who will take action against other professionals, promoters, sellers and town halls where these can be shown to have acted negligently and/or corruptly. It takes time and you've already lost seven years, but you could be looking at another seven years with no solution unless you change your target.

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Fact is – Spain is a wholly corrupt society and will always remain so unless there is a major upheaval. It has been corrupt for so long it is just a way of life in political and business circles and meekly accepted by the populace.

It is inconceivable that Spain expects to continue to exploit those innocent individuals who fall foul of its murky and ‘iffy’ rules and regulations  concerning construction and it needs to concentrate on sorting out the huge deepening crisis in the country – not least the terminally ill property market.

SAREB – the ‘bad bank’ expected all and sundry globally to fight like cat and dog over the billions of euro’s worth of mainly worthless property it holds as a result of the failed construction industry, repossessions and hand-backs  but it did not happen and as a result market prices are being depressed even further.

Nothing will reverse this situation in Spain unless the government and politicians on all levels get off their fat backsides, keep their fingers out of the till and do some serious legislation in respect of land/construction along with implementing a strict control policy over the ‘authorities’ who grant permits & licenses.

A strict code of conduct should be put in place to regulate the cosy relationships between town hall employees, lawyers and architects and a control mechanism such as the UK law society operates needs to be installed to regulate the maverick legal industry that is so rife in Spain. The threat of being struck off any professional register is enough to bring even the most arrogant architect or unscrupulous solicitor to his/her senses.

Estate Agents and Mortgage Brokers & Builders should be made to pass examinations and be strictly supervised & licensed by the state as they are in Portugal. Nobody who knows their job and claims to be professional would object to this regulation – in fact the genuine operators would welcome it as it would get rid of the raptors, so rife in Spain.

There is a lot of thinking and a lot of work to be done by Spain’s leaders and time is running out for them to claim credibility in a rapidly expanding world market – it is way past time that Spain dragged itself into the 21^st century and regulated the construction legislation in a precise and structured way – the same as most other forward thinking countries have achieved.

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The regulations are all there. It's consistant and timely enforcement that's needed.

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 Hello Surveyor I am told by Daniel Hannan MEP that there are 400,000 ilegal built properties is spain 80% owned by Spanish,  this does sound to me that this is a special spanish system they see it happening,  I believe they just want to issue fines for illegal builds  more lucrative than stopping the builds.  I was on the Spanish tax system & tried to do things correctly, their system has ruined m financly.

our residence ass has been negociating with Murcia council for at least 6 years & it seems the progres made can be put in a match box !!  I do believe they could make bylaws to help the situation as they seem change the goal post on other matters to suit there selves they have made changes but they have made it more difficult !

I am now broke --79 years old after working untill I was 67 I completly blame Spain for me being in this situation. they allow it to happen, in uk you could not build a small extension without build regs/planning .

would you happen to kow how I stand as I bought a completly built house I was not the developer.

 

 

 

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Sadly, systemic failings in the property market as a whole allow such situations to arise. Whilst many people walk through the minefield and emerge unscath, others do not. The comment regarding failure to enforce the regulations is key. A recent supreme court ruling in Andalucia has castigated the regional government on this very point.

The comments about the collegio of abogados and lawyers are very true in our experience. The failure of the governing bodies to take action against lawyers who betray their clients interest brings the whole sector into disrepute.  

In response the other comments, the EU is NOT taking an interest in this issue. Mulitple petitions to the European Union have been rejected on the basis that no laws of the European Union have been infringed even though we would argue that the effect on the free movement of capital within the union has not been properly explored. 

This case is entirely based on the efforts of the couple concerned. When they become too emotionally and financially exhausted to carry on the members of AUAN, SOHA and AUN helped carry the load. If this case succeeds it will be as a result of homeowners efforts. People like yourselves perhaps.

 

 

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You and the resident's association need to get a good solicitor to act for you. Preferrably one from outside Murcia so that they are not involved in that Region's Colegio system. Get one with a history of success in such cases. Eye on Spain's Maria Castro would be a good start as she is tenacious. There are others too. The local Town Hall will be changing the rules to suit themsleves, but the basic rules are all there, the information was there before you bought and you should have been protected.

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