Confused.com devious, or just plain ignorant?

I read in the Ex pat press in an article by a financial firm ,that when Ex pats do not pay their income taxetc in Spain, it is be caused they are confused,poor souls . Apparently,they don't know the difference between resident and nonresident  tax, and how to pay.

that argument won't wash!

there has never been so much info as there is now, free newspapers, radio, online advice, seminars held by financial advisors, so no one should be ignorant as to their tax obligations.

if anyone doesn't know it's because they don't want to know, and they hope the Hacienda hasn't got the time and resources to find out about their tax evasion.

I guess they're doing exactly what the Spanish do.  When in Rome....

Yes and mugs like us are subsidising them!

I agree - except that there is so much incorrect information bandied about by the so called experts also. And on top of that, you have incompetent or simply corrupt government officials to throw into the equation. Have a read of Antonio Flores' column in this weeks' EWN. 

It's true that many foreign property owners are blissfully unaware of the non-resident tax. Yes, they should make themselves aware, but if their legal representative at the time of buying didn't tell them, it's hardly surprising. Not everyone bothers to read the expat press, or join forums like this. Many people buy property in Spain for holidays only, and the only thing they're interested in is what the weather will be like when they get here. Understandably, these people also don't bother to learn the language.

Ignorance may be no excuse, but on the other hand, incompetence on the govt's part shouldn't be an excuse for not collecting taxes either. It's pretty obvious that non-Spanish speaking holiday home owners (of which there are a significant number) may not be fully conversant with Spanish tax systems. It would be very simple to get town halls to collect the non-resident tax automatically when claiming the annual IBI, then forward it onto the central govt. If there's a system in place already that works, why not capitalise on it? Forget confusing "modelos" (210) and so forth, never mind that some people may have actual rental income to declare whilst others don't - just go with the imputed tax for everyone. Some owners will get away with less tax on real income (just like the modular system for small businesses), but the extra take from all the owners that have never filed a 210 would easily make up for it. 

One way of making sure residents know about tax is to give everyone signing on the EU foreign citizens register a form they have to  fill in and sign, informing them of their tax obligations set out by the hacienda, in various languages.this form would then be sent to the Hacienda and details entered on their data base, making it easy for them to check if yearly declarations are made.Too simple?

When non residents buy a property, it should be compulsory for their solicitor or estate agent to again ensure that they sign that they have received a form, stating their tax obligations.

that way there can be no protestation of ignorance.

whether resident or non resident, whereas their first priority may be nice weather and a less stressful life( yeah, right!), they must be made to realise that if they want to live in Spain or have a property there, they have a responsibility to comply with the tax regulations of the country they have chosen.

Camposol for Pesident! 

One way of making sure residents know about tax is to give everyone signing on the EU foreign citizens register a form they have to  fill in and sign, informing them of their tax obligations set out by the hacienda, in various languages.this form would then be sent to the Hacienda and details entered on their data base, making it easy for them to check if yearly declarations are made.Too simple?

How's this going to sort out the far bigger issue of getting the Spanish to pay the tax they're supposed to be paying?  In the grand scheme of things, the expat/holiday home owner side of things is minor.  I don't know why you get so worked up about it.

I agree there needs to be a scheme for the a Spanish too, perhaps it would pay to have a dedicated team applied to this.

worked up about it? So should any decent,honest person be! 

Your blasé attitude is not one to be admired!

Camposol    I agree there needs to be a scheme for the Spanish too

There is one (which also applies to everyone else too) it called the law, unfortunately Hacienda do not enforce it.

Good Post Roberto.

Why do the Brits get their knickers in a twist over minor issues here? The fact is that the Govermnet is incompetent and the legislation they approve is mainly flawed. Regional rules conflict with national laws and the whole national legal system is a shambles. Local authorities are careless, corrupt and incapable, so let them sort out their own problems.

The idea of even more paperwork to sign is not good, don't you think we do enough queuing for the 'rubber stamp' already? We all know that one extra form to complete will breed several more in the fileing cabinet and therefore, more make-work clerks will have to be appointed to share the rubber stamp.

. Let's be more like our Spanish friends and worry about these things if and when they happen.

It's NOT a minor issue, it's a very major issue.

I despair of this attitude.

It's why Spain and Greece are in such a mess.

So, let's be more like our Spanish friends, black money, tax avoidance, yeah right

let the law abiding, tax paying mugs continue to do what is right  while our Spanish friends and expats do what they like .

What a country !

Camposol, agree with what you previously wrote but reading about all the benefit frauds in UK , that are only sorted when Joe public report them, think all Governments and their employees need a BIG shake up.

Camposol, 

What a country!

Why do you live here?

Perhaps  I am also in the minority, I think I am law

abiding and keep up to date and absolutely

love living here and enjoy it 24/7, I want to relax 

and enjoy old age not worrying.

You may be able to ignore it, stick your head in the sand, but some of us can't and don't want to tolerate  and accept it, and why should we? We are the ones subsidising these corrupt individuals.

it's a glib thing to say if you don't like it etc.......

If it were as easy as just packing a suitcase, but unfortunately there's a bit more to leaving Spain !

Spain has to change, or it will sink lower and lower into the mire.

Let’s put this in perspective – a few Brits dodging the taxman, it used to be a national past-time in UK. Consider the Spanish ‘black economy’ with 26% of the population unemployed the black is running at 253bn – yes 253 billion euro a year, which is 24.6% of Spain’s GDP.

95% of Spaniards voted to say that they considered the governmental system in Spain is corrupt – so how can leaders who are openly ‘at it’ expect the hoi polloi to be any different. 'Lead by example' is the term I believe, so that’s exactly what they are doing!

As for inventing systems to bring these miscreants to book or dobbing them in to the Gestapo – I am not remotely interested. I enjoy my life here and I will never have today again so I live life to the full whilst I still can. So, a few Brits fiddling a couple of bob here and there doesn’t get a second thought.

Lighten up and enjoy Spain for what it is -not for what you want it to be

It is NOT  a few expats dodging the taxman,it is a lot of Brits and other nationalities, and if you are happy to tolerate it, more fool you, as,  if you are paying your taxes out here you are helping these criminals, yes criminals, to live the lifestyle they don't deserve.

why is the Spanish taxman continually thinking of ways  to wring money out the population? Because many of them are dodging taxes, and letting others take the brunt.

Using the fact that  apparently 95% of Spaniards think the government is corrupt is a poor and weak excuse for not wanting these lowlife bought to justice.

it is because of attitudes like yours that Spain is like it is.we are not all lemmings!

If what you say is true Camposol then the only way to bring these folks to justice is for someone to report them. 

All "obeying the rules"  folk do get annoyed about but it is action not pontificating that is needed.

Until I am prepared to do so I will moan about these " criminals" to my other half and not on forums

OK Camps, lets agree to differ.

You carry on worrying and moaning about ' ex-pat criminals' fiddling a few quid when a corrupt and incompetent govenment has brought Spain to it's knees. - and I will continue to enjoy my stress free life-style.

It is not for your average expat to report people. They may know their neighbour is not declaring his income, indeed  the offender may even proclaim this to all and sundry, but in order to report someone detailed info is needed.

What should happen is that the Hacienda should  be more proactive, have a list of all those on the EU citizens register and check they are all making declarations.

like vermin, offenders should be flushed out!

Apparently they check electricity bills- does this work?

.Surely everyone receiving free health care must be a resident so perhaps a list of those on the Spanish health system would help in the case of expat state pensioners.

to be sure, moaning to your other half won 't help at all!

Camposol, there are millions of people in the world and mearly thousands investing various frauds. Consequently most fraudsters will only get caught if someone names them or they get caught via another violation.

Even if a register was made can you imagine how long it would take to check up on everyone. Years. Probably decades the way the Spanish system works.

Plus you are totally wrong about needing info to report someone. All that is required is a name and address. Takes about 18 months for investigations to start ( so no worries about fingers pointing at the accuser ) .and will carry on intermittently for  as long as it takes.

True, moaning to other half won't help but then it is better than moaning to all and sundry and still doing nothing.