Relocating to Spain

hi, we are a 59 and 56 year old couple thinking of relocating to Spain for a hopefully better way of life and of course, the most important thing, the weather. We would be looking at the lower end of the market properties (we are even open to looking at one of these park homes) but have certainly not got our rose tinted glasses on. We would prefer a smallish town, which still has good facilities but is not a major holiday destination. After reading all these posts I am totally confused. Half the people on here sound very anti moving to Spain and the other half love it, which is fine, but cannot understand why the dislikes are out there in the first place? We have got an app on our iPad to try and learn Spanish, or at least a little bit to start us off before we take the step. Can any of the ones who are enjoying life out there recommend any areas either in the Costa del Sol or the Costa Blanca to look at. We are maybe looking at renting first, any good estate agents that won't try and get us to take on something we know we can't afford? And why, if folk retire there, do they want to come home if they fall ill. For those of you who do not still have a foot in both camps, UK and Spain, the NHS is definately not what it was and yes, we can get free treatment whenever we need it, but from personal experience of having a long term health condition, it is just a case of a doctor writing out a prescription and telling you to go away as he has another dozen folk to see in a set time. We are aware we will have to pay for health insurance, but if you need it, is it really dire? Looking forward to your replies. Thanks.

MagicWriter2015,

Please forgive me for not having an exact cost for you, but an old UK friend, now resident in Spain, paid a monthly premium to Marbella General Hospital for private healthcare, I have a feeling that it was circa €35.00 p/m, he's now 65, a retired fire officer and as fit as a butcher's dog, he will now get free Spanish healthcare.

What it all boils down to is can you afford to live in Spain only you will be able to answer that one generally food is more expensive from supper markets due to price fixing and lack of compation the office of Fair trading like many other services you have in the UK does not exist in Spain wine and cigarette's are cheaper but only by a small amount you will have to pay for everything in Spain yourselves you will get the halfwits that's are going to tell you that it is cheap over hear and you can buy a menu of the day for around 10eu per person try doing that one's or twice on limited funds and reality will soon kick in you say you have health problems will you be able to cope with a temp of 40+ on a regular basis when you're not feeling very well to put your question's  it in a nut shell l would say if you can well afford it and are in good health then go for it otherwise stick to Holiday's in Spain good luck.

That's the second time you've mentioned 40+C. Do you live in the Sahara?

Price fixing, lack of competition? Dear me, you live in a totally different part of Spain to me. However, if you stick on British goods from British supermarkets of course it's more expensive. Wine and cigarettes only slightly cheaper? I don't smoke but my son in law does and when he visits he tells me they are a third of the price. Lidl UK had an offer on Rioja for £5.98 whereas the same brand here in Lidl is €1.49. Campo Viejo in Tesco is £8.99 a bottle and €2.99 at the moment in my local Gama. Asda do a 1l "basic Spanish White" for £3.99 in a cardboard carton which is 95 cents in Lidl and just 65 cents in a cardboard box.

English (well, Danish) bacon is Tesco everyday Value (so rubbish) is £ 5 a kilo on offer according to mysupermarket whereas my local Gama has fresh back bacon on offer at €5.98 (£4.40) a kilo normally €6.40.

Please don't make things up as it makes anything you claim rather dubious. 

I'm not getting into one of the made up contests about prices again but at least be realistic.

Sorry if I' m wrong, but didn't you ask about living in Spain on another forum?

you cannot use your EHIC card  for healthcare I if you are living in Spain

When resident in Spain, you can apply to the DWP in the UK to use when visiting other countries  in Europe, apart from Spain

People who appear to express some negative views about living in Spain do so because that's how it is, they've been there, got the T shirt etc. Some sail through life, comfortably without problems , so they are not going to provide negative views.

Not everyone has the same circumstances and experiences , that's why views are so different.

Living in Spain has many differences

About health:

You will need to have health cover for one year ,before you pay into the Spanish NHS, which means you will have the same entitlement to care as any Spaniard, except that you will pay 100% of prescription charges.

When you are entitled to free care as state pensioners, you will pay towards your prescriptions, and it is capped at a specific sum each month depending on your total income.

Private Spanish health insurers will not cover you for any existing medical conditions, so if you have anything serious, and end up in hospital, this can be very expensive.

The reason many return to the UK with health problems is because Spain doesn't cater for those who have problems in old age .The family undertakes this care.

If you are elderly, and one of you has a serious problem,  stroke, dementia etc, then there is limited support, and coping can be very difficult without support from your family.

You have to provide the personal care in hospital, and this is extremely tiring and stressful, especially if the hospital is not near where you live.

I'm speaking from experience here, and it is a lonely, isolating experience.

You cannot rely on friends who have their own problems, be elderly themselves, move away .

Most do not consider this aspect of living in Spain until they are personally affected.

Yes there is some help in the home - at a cost.People feel more secure and supported  in the UK, where they are nearer to help available, and they have family and friends to help

There is good info on the site gov.uk living in Spain

Get advice about the implications of taxes in Spain, as there are many

Some will advise you to do as some Spaniards do.

If you want to sleep at night don't be tempted to live under the radar,the tax office here has upped it's game and seeks those who have avoided this far.the consequences are too great , even though there are those who get away with it and mock others who try to live legally. Tax rules are different here, and what is tax free in the UK isn't here.

Search threads on this and other forums about requirements to be resident in Spain, which are stricter now in regard to your financial state and health cover.

Inform the HMRC and DWP  in the UK for advice from the Horses mouth.

If you have a steady income, don't need to work and are healthy, then Spain can be for you, but only if you have reasonable expectations and don't believe that everything is rosier, cheaper, and warmer all year round.

Thanks for the advice. We would be looking to buy food from the local markets/shops mostly and eating at home most of the time as you do in your own homes wherever you live. Meals out would be an occasional treat as they are now. Neither of us smoke, but my hubby does enjoy a glass of wine here and there lol. We are very aware we would have to pay for health insurance and have been told that a lot, if not all the medication I have to take now can be bought relatively cheaply over the counter from a pharmacy.  I am hoping the warmer weather would actually help one of my health conditions as I am finding it harder and harder to tolerate the cold weather back here and spend most evenings on the settee with a thick blanket over me while my hubby is sitting next to me in his t shirt complaining the heating is too high. I can understand what you say about feeling lonely and isolated if things go wrong, but the same can be true here. Families are not the same as when I was growing up, when you all lived near each other and helped each other out. Families can be all over the world and  I have had experience of working with the elderly in their own homes, residential homes and nursing homes and a lot of them would be lucky to see their families twice a year! My hubby has found out that his forces pension would be taxed at source i.e. the UK. We are looking more into things like taxation, but it seems to depend on areas you live in as well or am I reading that wrong? We were just wondering if there were areas that were really expensive to rent/buy in, for taxation etc as Spain is such a big country it is hard to know where to start. Thanks again.

Though it seems it is standard to quote the 183 day rule, if the tax office consider your centre of interests is Spain, they can consider you tax resident for the whole year, regardless of what month you move- many aren't aware of this.

Taxes can vary from region to region

Inheritance tax depends on which region you live in and how generous their allowances are

The council tax IBI varies. You could pay peanuts if you live in the campo, or hundreds if you live on an urbanisation, plus some of them have community fees as well

 In the main, income tax levels are standard throughout Spain

Factor in accountant and interpreters fees as well.

Don't forget the crucial timing of moving to Spain, in terms of the tax year, and how it might influence capital gains tax on your house sale and any lump sums, winnings or inheritances you may be expecting.

Yes, you can buy medication over the counter, but pharmacies are stricter about what they  will  sell without prescription

Two of mine are over 60 euros a month. With my other medication, I was paying well over the cap, and it was a hassle to get the overpaid charges back

I know what you mean about the elderly feeling isolated in the UK too, but believe me it is different here, and people do go back for the security and safety aspect.

Having had to cope with my husband's serious illness, I did feel very unsupported, and it was a very draining experience.

I would not want to cope with dementia or a serious stroke out here.

I may be able to get some help, but it would be more difficult

Bobaol as I said wine and fags are a little bit cheaper no good if you are like me and don't smoke or drink as you well no it can frequently get up to 40+c in the summer time l don't want to get in to a mine is cheaper than yours discussion if you where like me and lived in the UK and used you place as a holiday home the same as I do every six weeks throughout the year you would be able to pass comment of the price of food in theUK l did not mention any particular brand of food or type all I said as you well no is that Spain  is more expensive to buy food in so before you get on your high horse again try adding something that is going to benefit the poster by answering the questions they are asking.

Hi MagicWriter2015

Great to hear you are thinking of moving to Spain.  Yes, there are varied reports but if we were all the same the world would be a boring place!  Not everyone can live in Spain, because people are right the temperatures do go up during the summer to 40+, but you just have to learn how to live in it! 

My partner and I have been here 12 years now and we consider the summer our winter in that during the hours of 12 and 6 we stretch out on the sofas with a fan each usually and watch TV unless you are going to the beach - it's why the Spanish have siestas - they are sensible!  Plenty of water too - not just beer, wine or tea!

Learning the Spanish lingo is probably best left until you come here although it is always helpful to have a few words ready for things.  The Government offer free Spanish classes in most of the largish towns and villages and it is also a fantastic way to meet new people in your area and make some friends, then you also have other little classes around and about.  We certainly did this and have some lovely English friends through this way, although you may not like everybody - you can choose...

With regard to houses - have you considered the Almeria area?  This province is still in Andalucia and a lot cheaper than the Costa del Sol/Blanca areas.  I am knowledgable about the housing market in the area and have a few Spanish and English contacts who let me market their houses to the English market. Have you also considered renting first?  Just to make sure you like living in a certain area?  If not, you can move on and find somewhere else that you like... 

Healthcare is a problem and the Spanish are tightening up on this.  I believe if you contact the DHSS in Newcastle and tell them you are moving to Spain you are entitled to 2 years of healthcare if your SS payments are up to date - but please check with them.  If you work on contract here you will also be covered and even if it is only one person, the spouse will be covered as well.  There are a number of private health insurances and I just think you have to get quotes from a few to get an idea of prices.  If you want to start your own business then be careful, the monthly social security payments are high.  I did manage to get an assisted start from them back in 2013 but my time is coming up and as I am over 55 will be around €270 a month so don't expect to make a fortune until you have covered that as they are very strict and will fine you if it is late each month.  It would be a good idea to talk to an asesoria/gestoria about your tax returns etc.  They know all the regs and you can worry less that you have forgotten to do this that and the other.

Hope this is of help...

Good luck!

Sally Scamell

Cortijo del Toro Virtual Enterprises

The hottest it got in Murcia in 2014 was 31C. The hottest place in Murcia province in 2014 was 34C at San Javier airport in 7th August. Average temperature at the airport in Augustt was 30C. In Murcia itself it was 29C.

Alicante province was 31C with the highest being 33.9C, again on the 7th August. 

Malaga, the hottest, got to 38C on 11th August with an average of 30C.

Now, about this "frequently can get up 40C in the summertime".  It can get to 40C in inland places like Madrid and even Seville where the hot winds meet the mountains. But never in your or my areas.

Sal 1y. There is no residual healthcare anymore based on NI payments. The UK stopped it last year so no 2 years free cover anymore.

The only people not making social security payments in Spain and entitled to free healthcare  are those under 18, over pensionable age in their home country and those registered disabled.

In Almeria province in 2014 the temp got to its hottest on July 16th at 37C. The average wasc28C so, again, 40C?

20 Lambert & Butler are £8.30 in the UK as against €4.50 in Spain, which comes out at two and a half times cheaper. I always check Campo Viego Rioja Reserva prices, which are £10.79 in the UK and €4.50 in Spain, which comes out at 3.25 times cheaper in Spain.

I'm no supermarket anorak, but note that good cuts of beef steak in Spain are similar to UK prices, however they taste far better, probably because they come from Argentina, where their donors are fed on very lush grass. I'm not really into barbecued sardines, but do like a sea fish paella, which can be quite pricey, but we only have the ones where you order a day in advance, and not very often.

So if you're a 2 pack a day smoker and drink like a fish you will save money in Spain, albeit not for that long. Go and rent a place for say 3 months and then decide.

Good luck whatever your decision may be.  

Quote"  I am hoping the warmer weather would actually help one of my health conditions as I am finding it harder and harder to tolerate the cold weather back here and spend most evenings on the settee with a thick blanket over me while my hubby is sitting next to me in his t shirt complaining the heating is too high " unquote.

Am a trifle concerned that you might find the houses in Spain colder than you realise.

Today, April 4,  sun shining and warm outside with a temp of 18c, "t" shirt and shorts weather,  Time 18.20   BUT the moment I walk over my threshold I have to put on either a fleece or the heating.

 It is only in the height of summer  ( 3 months approx) that the interior of my house heats up.   Now considering my house is only 7 years old has triple glazing and fully insulated exterior walls 36c thick  I am more fortunate than most for what we had personally built  isnt the norm.  In truth neither my husband nor I ever felt this cold indoors when we lived in UK. And still think it warmer when we visit there. 

Unfortunately heating be it electricity, oil, gas or wood , is far more expensive than UK. The warmest rooms we have been in have oil radiators and an open fire. Seems average annual heating cost is c € 2500 and none have your medical problems.  Think that wherever you decide to live it should be on the CDS coast because it will be much warmer there.

My food bill , shopping in a Mercadona, is in € comparable to UK in £ unless you live in the expat areas where prices are always 30% higher. Markets are the best value, in both quality and price, for fruit and veg. Lots of people also recommend Lidl for value for money.

Personally believe you  should rent for 3/5 months before you make any serious decisions regarding the best country to live for the improvement of your health. 

All the best

Boboal my place is 15kl in land and 500ft above sea level when I was over at my place at the end of February for a week it got up to 29c for three days the other four days it was around 25c and have been in Spain with temp frequently is above 40c in the summer this is the main reason I bought the place for some winter sun if we had regular sunshine in wales I would have not have bought a place in Spain I only live one and a half miles from a lovely beach overlooking the English channel but no sunshine.

For floella.

Do you live up in mountains somewhere? €2500 average heating bill? My total electric bill for last year came to under €1100 which included aircon in the summer and heating in the winter.

And the "30%" more in expat areas is a bit of a myth. I've shopped in many places in Spain, some well out of the way places, and the prices are the same. TV often shows prices so if you are saying they have special TV for the expat areas then they must have special TV prices for the Spanish areas. We regularly get flyers from all the supermarkets and furniture chains/DIY chains etc. Printed centrally in Madrid so do you reckon they print a special one for expat areas? In fact, I think the non expat areas are dearer than the big coastal areas because of the increased competition. When we stayed in Xativa, well off the expat trail, bread and fruit was definitely more expensive.

Oh, and I only have double glazing but it is extremely well built and is nice and cosy in the winter. 

Mazarron August 2014

It might feel like it but it certainly ain't. Yes, according to weather records it has exceeded 40 C on one or two days and even got to 45C in 1994 at a railway station. But to say it "frequently" exceed 40C is rather an exagerration.

So, for magicwriter 2015. Don't be put off. Property is quite cheap at the moment but beware of the taxes and costs when buying. Valencia region has recently put its transfer tax up to 10% so even a €40,000 flat will attract about an extra 5 or 6000 euros in taxes and fees with some even higher. Also be aware of quite a few areas not having the correct paperwork for the property so make sure you get a very good, independent lawyer to check it all out (another 1000 or so on top, I'm afraid.)

If your husband's forces pension is your only income then you will pay no further income tax in Spain. It is taxed at source in UK (not getting round that, I'm afraid) but will not be taxed in Spain. Council tax is very cheap, mine for a 3 bed 2 bath house is the same for the year that I was paying for a month in UK just 3 years ago. There will be charges if you live on a community so check out the fees from someone living there. In our area, one community of over 200 properties pay just 145 euro a year for these charges whilst others, in larger houses I must admit, can pay up to 1500 euro a year. The average appears to be around 4 to 5 hundred a year.

Check the property is well built by a good builder. Many were thrown up in the boom with no thought to quality, insulation and some were not finished propertly. For example, we had a flat that was freezing in the winter, windows that let gales in and mould behind furniture due to no ventilation. It roasted in the summer. The house we have now is a good builder, excellent quality with ducted aircon and so on. The only thing we've changed is the windows for proper double glazed ones but they were half the cost we paid in UK for the same thing. Hence you get loads of people complaining of how cold the place is in winter and so on.

The weather is nowhere near as extreme as some make out. Here on the S Costa Blanca it averages around 32C in the summer (yes, it can get higher) and we have only used the heating in the house for about 4 or 5 weeks in the evening. (No, we don't sit in cardigans and thick socks all the time.)

Healthcare will be a problem. You will get no free care until one of you reaches pensionable age. If it's your husband that is 59 then it will be at least another 7 years before that kicks in. You can only get onto the state system (where you pay into it) after being here a year and you must have private health insurance to become a resident. When you hit pensionable age the cost of prescriptions is capped at 8 euro a month per person.

Despite rumours to the contrary, I feel (and this is my opinion before the usual suspects start telling me they bought a tin of Dulux in B&Q for half the price Brico Depot sells it for) it is much cheaper here in Spain for day to day living. We certainly live a lot better than we could on our pensions in UK but, of course, we don't have the bills.

Utility charges work out around the same here as in UK. Electricity standing charges are exorbitant but if you add the average electricity bill and gas bill in UK together it would probably be about the same as the electric bill here. My annual water bill is about half what I was paying in UK. Telephone and internet headline prices in UK are cheaper but when you add on compulsory line rental etc then it can work out cheaper (mine is 25 euro a month for phone and internet with no charges for the phone calls although it is much slower than UK).

You will only feel isolate if you decide to be isolated. Where we live, and in many of the surrounding villages, there is so much going on that you will find it difficult to fit things in. People that go through life being grumpy and complaining about every little thing will find it hard here as most people walk away from them and leave them alone. Most people around us love it here but it's not for everyone.

The best of luck whatever you decide but I would advise you to rent for at least the first year. There are some nice places going for as little as 350 euro a month and, if you find you don't like the area, it is much easier to move somewhere else than if you've bought. It is also easier to return to UK if things don't work out.

Fortunately, my wife also loves it here. When we go back to UK she is always itching to get back to what she now considers is "home" but some people admit that Spain will never be their home. Depends what type you are on how happy or not you will be here.

Babaol, one has to respect that in Spain one size doesn't fit all. 

What to you maybe a myth is fact to me and without doubt in expat areas grocery costs are higher. Fortunately I now recognise the Spanish equivalent of many UK products.  So cheaper still.  I don't live up a mountain but in a valley 60 km south of Mazarron and  25km inland where every winter we suffer harsh ground frosts. Living near or in a coastal town weather is always warmer

I wasn't just talking about my cost for heating, which for the  last 4 months have cost over €1000, but from conversations with friends and neighbours whose bills using , gas/ oil electricity and logs for open fires have totalled very similar to mine.

OP should make sure that the property has the right orientation allowing as much sun in as possible to warm the house. The interior of our house only gets the sun in the mornings which in the winter/ spring months is not sufficient to warm the living area of the house.

Hi again, all I can say is wow, have certainly got some conflicting advice here, but that is good. I have posted on several forums as just reading factual stuff, although very important, is not the same as hearing things from the horses mouth so to speak. Everyone has different experiences and I was so sorry to hear about your struggles Camposol (I hope I have named th right person), I would imagine it was hard looking after your husband when he was ill. As I said, we are not smokers or particularly heavy drinkers. As for the concerns re me finding the houses cold, I was kind of hoping that apart from when the weather is scorching hot and we would appreciate a cooler house, that we would be outside most of the time? Looking at average weather for both of the Costa's we mentioned it does not appear to get that cold for too long. We live in the North East of Scotland where we get not only very cold weather at times, but it can stay cold for months, we have been known to have hailstones in June/July time. We measure our GOOD summer weather where the temperatures reach the mid twenties in days not months and even when we get the good weather there can be cold winds. We are not thinking of just packing our cases next week and flying over, we are trying to comprise a book of A4 pages where we can put down all the pro's and con's, look at the financial costs and compare everything. But as well as the serious head, there is a bit of do we stay here for the same old, same old or do we say, we have raised our family, now it is our time for a bit of adventure and excitement, you are a long time dead! Thanks again, got to go now to put my vote in for The Voice lol.

Ah, now if you're comparing British goods to Spanish goods then I'd agree. However,  I can't remember the last time we bought something inherently British apart from teabags. We prefer Spanish coffee (by far) and a packet of Mezcla in AlCampo Zenia (more expat you couldn't get) was 50 cents for 500g less than I paid for it in the non expat area. Fresh chicken in our local supermarket (a big expat town) is currently €1.99 a kilo so I can't see it being much cheaper elswhere. We buy local ketchup, local mustard, much prefer Spanish bacon, Pan Campesino to Wonderloaf (do they still make that?) and the only things recently I bought which was UK branded was Guinness as the local Gama had it on offer for a week at 75 cents a can ((yep, about 52p). One crate a day per customer so I went in every day for the week) and Kerrygold Mature cheddar which was cheaper even than UK.

But Consum (for example) sends us a brochure on a regular basis which has exactly the same prices in, say, Benidorm as it would have in Jumilla. Talking of Jumilla, a bottle of mediocre red in the local supermarket (Aldi) was more expensive than Aldi in Rojales (another expat area) which was ridiculous considering they made it there.

We also have the advantage of having a Lidl, 2 Consums, 2 Mercadonas, a Carrefour, 2 Gama Jumerca, an Aldi and numerous DiaPrix, SupaSave and so on within 10 minutes of us and all seem to compete on price.

What are expensive are the Johnson's, the Miller's, the British Supermarket and so on but, then, so are the German, Danish and Belgium delicatessens around.