Crown Pensions will be taken in consideration in Spain as from this year.

As those affected will know, as of this year (the tax return for 2015)  UK Crown Pensions, which were ignored by AEAT (Hacienda) will be ‘taken into consideration.’ 

I made an appointment with a gestor this morning to make my PADRE (Tax return) and asked what additional info she would need in relation to my Crown Pension.  She said , they are ignored in Spain.   I explained that as of this year they are not. She went away and made a call to AEAT and then said, they will be taken into consideration this year so I will need to produce, in effect, my P60.  Had I not insisted, and known better,  I would have left with the wrong info.

So be aware, and remember,  if the declaration is wrong the declarant is held responsible not the professional adviser.

I am still amazed how often ‘professionals’ in Spain get it so wrong.

‘professionals’ in Spain = oxymoron. 

Very worrying situation really. Our Tony Down the Pub wouldn't have made that mistake!

An update.

A few days ago my gestor showed me several letters which her clients, all crown pensioners,  had received from  Hacienda demanding payment on their crown pensions for 2014, and the details of  fines for not paying.    Of course such pensions were not required to be declared in Spain until this year, so there would be no Spanish tax to pay

The gestor showed me several copy  P60’s for such clients and asked how one can tell that the income shown comes from a Crown Pension.  Having examined the P60’s I saw there is no easy way to know just from looking at them.

I explained to the gestor that Crown Pensions are always taxed in UK and one cannot choose to pay the tax in Spain,  albeit that from this year they are ‘taken in  consideration’ when one makes their Spanish tax return in respect of other income, OAP, bank interest , stocks and shares,  premium bond winnings, private pensions, etc.  All of which must be declared and taxed in Spain.

On thinking about the Crown Pension clients,  I suspect they have never informed HMRC when they moved and became taxable in Spain. Thus HMRC did not sent them the forms which they must take to Hacienda, so that HMRC and Hacienda can liaison.   If one has not done that then the income from a Crown Pension would appear on paper to be ‘other income’ and thus taxable only in Spain.

I later sent my gestor the list of who is and who is not a Crown Pensioner to wit :- 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040

By coincidence, last week I had  spoken a woman who she said she had received a notice from Hacienda of a 4,000 euro fine for not declaring her income,  a Crown Pension.

I can only assume  Hacienda are catching up with Crown Pensioners  who have failed to pass them the info that they need to liaison with HMRC.

I would suggest if you are a Crown Pensioner and have not passed the HMRC form to Hacienda you may want to put that right ASAP.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 17/09/2016.

Would love to make a quip about "Clown Pensions", but on a serious note - a friend of Tony's  is a crown pensioner - and has never filed a tax return in Spain at all. I wonder if Hacienda will have him on their radar? He owns property here, lives here all year (for many years now), drives a Spanish plated car (unlike our Tony!) - as far as I know, he's registered as a resident. Surely only a matter of time?

I have added to this thread to bring it 'forward'  just in case a new subscriber might like to confirm they have it right.

I would be very suspect of any Gestor / Solicitor / Legal person who shows another client other clients personal and private letters. And as an after thought I do have my Crown Pension correct, as I deal with a reputable law company, which you are not, so your information as good as you might believe it to be legal is not.

xJenny,

This gestor will no doubt show johnzx's private and confidential papers to whoever she wishes, I appreciate that Spain can be a very strange place where legalities are concerned but this takes the biscuit, it must be illegal..

** EDITED - Inciting **

The gestor knows my situation so can be sure I will respect any confidentiality,  as I do with people who visit the police station. 

There is no mystery why the gestor asked me, it was because she knew I had liaised with Hacienda and a poster on ths forum.She knew I had a greater depth of the MO  to be used re declarations of crown pensions than she did.  She had changed her MO for declarations as a result of the info i passed to her from a senior level at Hacienda.

Hate to disappoint you but there are several posters who are very knowledgeable on various matters

This message was last edited by johnzx on 30/09/2016.

** EDITED - disclosing private messages **

Thank you Johnzx for the above PM,  (Albeit only part of what you sent) er, I did not call you a criminal. I asked if you were maybe one, for that I sincerely apologise for thinking that certain aspects of your wordings made me think police once again.

Not savvy because I did not check your profile, should I have done that then? Really.

I have no knowledge of you being a former Police Office and I wouldn't check it out either, you said you were, how do I know thats true then? I never queried you're supposedly 20 years with the National Police either, now did I?

I think that ridiculous posts fall into your lap on that score.

Soon I shall be in Abaco and will ask them if they have ever made the mistakes you mention, due to your comments on this score are totally new to me.

And NO I am not a wind up, as you put it. Please do try to remember your first post to me.

Very sorry my mistake.

Just realised i missed out the begining part of your email to me about incorrect email,  I never sent you any email, are you getting mixed up?

This message was last edited by xJenny on 30/09/2016.

johnzx,

Well that was a real monologue,** EDITED - Inciting**

Please do not publish private messages from other members on the open forum. They are meant to be private so that they do not distract from the topic or disrupt a thread. If any private messages are offensive please report them directly to the moderators. 

That said, please all calm down and discuss this matter in a civil manner. Thanks you

xJenny   Quote  from thread "Driving a foreign car to and in Spain" 

Both I and my Husband own Spanish Reg cars in Spain and we both are not resident.

.​​​​​​ If that is true then you have never made a Resident’s  income tax declaration in Spain other that the imputed tax on maybe a holiday property.   So you of course do not need to know anything about declaring crown pensions or other income and thus any gestor would have sufficient knowledge to assist you.

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

You are not declaring yourself as resident so you do not make the obligatory tax declarations in Spain as the law dictates , Sounds like a plea of guilty to me

QUOTE    xJenny     We also stay for longer than 6 months 'Sometimes' and never had any problems with anything,  fact no one has every queried it

I was surprised, as a former police officer in receipt of a crown pension, subsidised my UK tax payers, that are you proud to declare that you breaking the law ** EDITED - Against forum rules **

This message was last edited by johnzx on 02/10/2016.

Dear Johnzx.

If we both have Spanish Reg cars and don't live in Spain full time then it must be true, your powers of observation as a retired detective don't seem to be to great.

As we own 3 houses and rent 2 out we need a Solicitor to pay bills, sort out any problems that arise while not in Spain and so on, hence Abaco.

Ashamed / Guilty, Let he with no sin cast the first stone.

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

The late Prime Minister Harold MacMillan was quoted as saying;-

'When hosting a dinner party where a guest continues to bore everyone with tales of their pathological honesty, I  am minded to tell my butler to check the silver before they leave'.

My own take on personal honesty is the trust that people who I admire have for an individual.

OK let's do our best to be civil, It was only a few posts go that we said this. It didn't take long for it to go off the rails again. If you can't hold a civil conversation , even if you disagree or don't share an opinion, we will just shut down the thread, as it is pointless.