Spanish health care versus NHS.......No contest

Well all that all of this shows is that there is a huge variation across both countries - and is that not what you would expect?     I would just say though - it is not true that using the NHS or going private makes no difference:

'Private or  public wouldnt make any difference I found out, because it was the same specialist going either way, and being seen in the same place, therefore the same waiting queue.'     1.   You can choose your surgeon and go to a different private hospital or NHS hospital with a private wing rather than wait.   2.  You can be certain it will be the surgeon you have chosen who does the procedure rather than a junior surgeon.   3.   If you choose to stay with the same NHS surgeon you will still be able to see him/her faster as they offer additional clinics for private patients.  These include operations on Saturdays (which is why a lot of consultants in the NHS do not want the 7 day week as the weekends are when they do their private practice).    Lots of NHS workers will not tell you how easy it is to get private surgery/treatment as they are committed to the NHS (sweet - but unwise).   They also don't tell people that it is not that expensive to see a surgical consultant (maybe £200 - 350?) and it is often well worth it rather than wait weeks for an NHS appointment.   You can always hop back over to the NHS if you dont want to pay for an op.

Just a point about going private in Spain

Some years ago I went with a Spanish friend to see a consultant privately.   My friend had a breast removed some years previously following a cancer diagnosis.   I wanted to pay for a reconstruction.  It was just as a kind act.  I thought it was better to help someone personally than donate to an established charity.    (Years ago in UK  I investigated a couple of charities. I will say no more ! ).

The consultant  if she had the operation privately and something went wrong then I (she) would have to pay for all follow-up medical expenses  as the free health service would not assist.

I decided  I did not want to take on a possible lifetime commitment.

The good news was that shortly after by chance, or I suspect an intervention by the consultant, my friend was contacted by the El Servicio Andaluz de Salud (NHS Spain) offering her the reconstruction free on the health service.

Yes indeed.  It used to be the same in Engand but I think they are much happier to pick and mix now.   It used to be the case that if you paid for a tiny part of your treatment (e.g. chemo with a new drug) the NHS would ditch you for that illness - but that was changed some time ago to give patients more choice.   But as ever, the quality of the surgery is dependant upon the quality of the surgeon - and there are huge variations there too.  Both private and NHS - as the Birmingham scandal over breast surgery has shown.   That surgeon had a huge patient list of both NHS and private patients.   Terrible.   

Just a small correction to something johnzx said, "El Servicio Andaluz de Salud (NHS Spain)"

Spain does not have a National Health Service, each of the regions has its own health service and in reality there is little cooperation between them. The SAS is indeed the Servicio Andaluz de Salud, based in Seville.

My Spanish mother-in-law, 90 years old at the time, was staying with a daughter in the province of Toledo, covered by the health service of Castilla La Mancha. She came to Málaga to spend a few weeks with another daughter and had the devil's own job getting treatment in the Centro de Salud here despite her age. In the SAS the doctors generally are very good, excellent, some of them, but the management, (gestión), is terrible, and that's not just my opinion it's the opinion of the doctors.

[Edit], A final comment. It is a shame that some people behave in this forum as though they are commenting in much of the UK national press, where anything goes. I am pleased that the moderators deal with this very adequately. We are indebted to you!

This message was last edited by ehw on 20/07/2017.

Well OK Baz, for the record I have some questions about your post, for the reason of making this as the moderator suggested.  I'm asking these from memory of the post rather than reading back so please excuse any slightly different wording. 

The lady who visited the surgery who had a 30 minute consultation which was on time and seemed about right length of time.   Why does this seem to be the right amount of time, half an hour is a long time and it doesn't take this long to discuss something unless it's really clinically important, and if it was it will need a referral to a consultant.

The appointment being on time, how relevant is this?   How does a doctor know how long an appointment will take before meeting the patient, I have had early and late appointments due to the workloads and the visits that come up, what relevance has this?

Your friend has a brain tumour, for which he has my complete understanding and concern.   The way you said it you intimated the chap had turned up at the doctors surgery and they apologised for not operating that day, but they could do it Thursday.   A brain tumour is generally an inoperable condition unless it's by way of very recently pioneered equipment recently produced here in Yorkshire.  The thought that someone can turn up and get a diagnosis and operated on the same day made me laugh, even though it's a dark sense of humour, but only because you may have been mistaken (which is what I said).  Do you want to make any further comment on that one?

You mentioned you went to the doctor and he or she had the wrong notes and asked if you were still taking the tablets.   My answer to the doctor would be can you please check your notes and make sure we have the right information, but instead you walked out of the room.   Why would you do that when you require treatment?

The Lady who we went to the clinic with has quite a long history of illness, the clinic in question knew her well and all her problems, she has been in hospital in Spain for operations, nothing as bad as some poor folk but enough, she had a good check over concerning her recent problems, hence the lenth of time, the 'On time' relevance is down to her oppoinment being at 2pm, we got their about 1.45pm and she went in at 2pm, my local clinic it's nothing to wait 30/45 minites past your oppointment time.

My friend with the brain tumor, of course he didn't just turn up and say 'Hey doc can you fix this' it had gone on for about 4 weeks before having tests etc, I would have thought that was pretty obvious without explaining in full, but their you go, so he goes into the clinic to get the results of the 'Past' tests, lets say on a Monday for arguments sake, the doctor as mentioned told him he couldnt get it done today..For arguments sake..But can do it on Thursday that same week, the days don't matter but from this clinic visit to having the op it was only a matter of days.

I don't make a habit of visiting the doctors, thankfully I seem either very lucky or reasonably healthy, on this time I did go to the doctors I was getting some pain in my leg, the reason being I had been shot in that leg twice in the forces and was told that some of the bone had been chipped quite badly but shouldn't cause problems, it might sort itself out, don't ask me how as I never did understand that bit, I made the appointment with it being in 3 weeks time, waited for a length of time, as you know I went in, sat down,  from then all down hill, this doctor had clothes on that looked like he had been digging his garden, one other nurse / doctor I saw looked like she had been unwashed for a week or more. Why should I sit and trust a person who cannot even get my name correct, read the wrong notes, think he had given me tablets for what ever who knows, so I have to trust this person do I, don't think so? Sorry no second chances with me.

Ehw.    It just goes to show that health services in both countries have their own issues, and as in the UK, area for area the service is different.  Some over here call it a post code lottery.

Its a big animal is a health service and people sometimes have unrealistic expectations in my experience.   Statistics for private treatment in some clinical areas are worse outcomes that those carried out through NHS.   

I can honestly say though that I have never met any unclean surgeries or clinicians at any level, Baz must have been very unlucky.   It is essential that people complain if something like that comes along.  

Baz is there anything good you have to say about the UK ....just asking as every chance you get you seem to rundown the UK ...I wonder why.

Brian

  How urgent was it for me? It wasn't bleeding or respiratory and I didn't feel it was life threatening,  however it was incredibly painful.

  I felt if it was a choice of waiting days at the GP or waiting hours at A&E then I could probably hold out with some strong pain meds for a few hours. 

Roly

  I was told in triage that that particular specialist was well respected in my local area so either way he was the person I was going to see. This was my choice.

I fully agree there are more options through private but in my state I wanted someone recommended. He was the guy and on request the triage nurse was told there was no way to speed him up because he already had his schedule setup.

I could have gone with someone else faster but I didn't have any feedback about the individuals skill or reputation etc.

hope that makes sense. 
This message was last edited by rob_j1 on 21/07/2017.

Baz is there anything good you have to say about the UK ....just asking as every chance you get you seem to rundown the UK ...I wonder why.

Hi Windtalker.

Yes, the UK has much good about it, it's my birth country,  but I hate the way it's going, and will end up, pretty soon at that, if thats running it down then thats how it looks to you,  I am a realist and live in the real world and can see the UK and it's problems for what they are and call a spade a spade. If speaking the truth offends then thats tough on the offended.

You love Spain and if I were to be picky it looks like you, from what you say on here, spend more time in Spain then putting your money into visiting the UK and helping its economy out, oh and I don't need to know how much time and money you do spend in the UK thats nothing to do with to any of this.

This is about the health differences with Spain and the UK, not if I like the UK or not....Which if it helps you out I don't like it one bit anymore.

Baz what you will find with the NHS UK ...is that it is at saturation point and has been for many years ..most people will say its the uncontrollable migration from the EU ( approximately 300,000 per year )..others will say the NHS manager's are  incompetent ..others like myself blame it on the Brussels for not seeing the the problems the UK is having with no housing or jobs or services for the economic migrants from  EUROPE ..all we hear in the UK is we need. to build 500,000 new house's  per year with at least 60% for.social housing  /we need to employ more nurses/more Doctors/more school's to cope... and the only person the government is looking at to pay for this is the UK Tax payer and the Tax payer does not want to pay anymore Tax ..so I ask you what is the answer.

Put posters up in our hospitals saying go to Spain. You can visit clean people and spend half an hour talking about what's wrong, and get a brain operation off the peg.   

Bingo.  They will all go. 

I wonder how the Spanish government would cope with a in population growth of approximately 300,000 EU citizens per year... all looking for free Health care/and 60% looking for Social housing/DSS and so on.

WT

 uncontrollable migration from the EU ( approximately 300,000 per year 

Rot. Nothing more to be said.

Windtalker.

We all know the UK NHS is at saturation point and has been for years, and of course its down to more people being in the country without the service increase to cover this, but you have to remember that our politicians seem to think only about 10 / 20 at the most come over so it's no great problem, and they can always come up with a more pressing engagement to cover up the current problem.

I don't see it as a Brussels problem after all our own leaders have brains, we vote them in to run the country, shame they don't seem to be able to,  they can see whats happening here, getting them to admit it though is another ball game, all we had to do was to say to the EU is enough is enough...So EU do your worst, think they would, I don't once they did see we mean business, getting someone in power to do business cant be done here, hence the past few months worth of shambles. How many times have we all heard over the past many years...'Oh you cant do that. it's against EU rules'

We do employ more nurses, police, doctors, build more schools and so on....Because the government said so, they tell us of the millions they are putting into the NHS etc,  so it must be true. 

Every one of us in this country know what we would do to sort out our money problems, or at least help a lot, quite a simple method,  could we do it, hell no.

Mariedav .So I am talking Rot ....so what is the approximate Net yearly  migration  in to The UK .that the NHS has to cope with.I hope you have the balls to answer my question.

From the EU last year 133,000

From the EU in 2015 180,000 (the largest ever)

From the EU in 2014 142,000

A bit far away from your 300,000 a year from the EU. As has been pointed out to you before, with links to Migration Watch, Full Facts and the ONS, these are the net figures.

Anything else you want me have the "balls" to answer? 
And in case you've learned how to read since this was posted before, here's a link to your favourite bedtime reading

MIgration Watch 2016

Mariedav net migration in to the UK 2016 was 248,000 that they can account for ...I got the data from the same source as you did Migration watch UK. Perhaps you made a mistake read it wrong ...this is another 248,000 people that the UK NHS has to administer and care for .

Spain's population is dropping year on year .

Just so we know what we are talking about, you wrote

.most people will say its the uncontrollable migration from the EU ( approximately 300,000 per year )

And then read Migration Watch again where it says All Citizenships 248,000. 133.000 from the EU and 175,000 non-EU. All citizenships include British people returning as well although the net figures for them was  minus 60,000.  If you're going to state 300,000 a year from the EU then get your facts right. The EU has no control whatsoever over the Non-EU migrants to UK. 

The UK has a population growth of Approximately 248,000 + per year that they can account for ...the UK has the power to control none EU migrants from entering the country..but has no power to control migration from the EU witch is growing year on year.maybe it's time the EU admitted to the problems the UK is having with  the strain on its infrastructure and started helping us out with EU grants to expand our services across the UK to cope with the massive uncontrollable migration .instead of leaving the UK Tax payer to foot the bill.

An educative article worth reading from migration watch from 5 days ago titled "The outlook for EU migration if the UK remains subject to the free movement of people"

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/416

.........."In effect, a failure to control EU immigration would result in the ONS high migration scenario under which the population rises at half a million each year; 75% of that increase would be the result of the direct and indirect effects of immigration."

17 July, 2017