Bad Community - Conflict of Interest

We have mentioned some points twice in this thread. I think twice is enough.

You seem very sensitive with your 3 identical posts. If you don't have anything to positively add why you waste your time? And more importantly mine?

Can you be clear about the other points that you say you have mentioned twice on this thread?

Is it correct you are dissatisfied with the free supply of community electricity to charging points for disabled wheelchair users?

What are your other points? 

We've told you what has happened two times. You can either say they are perfectly within their rights to do what they have done, or you can say they have breached the horizontal property laws of Spain.

if you live in a horizontal property in Spain, are you happy to pay for someone else's electricity if they have not given you the courtesy of an EGM to discuss the matter?

You've spent two days trying to belittle me rather than read the post and comment on the points.

i've told you some of what they've done, it would be nice if people could clarify if within their rights or not. And elaborate either way.

Unfortunately I've not gained anything i can use going forward as yet. Looks like effort on both sides amounting to nothing.

if I didn't know better I'd say this is just entertainment.

You have asked for advice and help on EOS but avoid cooperating and clarifying information about your original post and any questions relating to it.

You are stating you have an issue with not being consulted while in the UK about the free supply of community electricity to charging points for disabled wheelchair users, did you want to object to this or did you want to know how much kW per hour it takes to charge a wheelchair?

Nobody is trying to belittle you, but the only answer you give to anything is that ‘’We've told you what has happened two times’’ That may be true but we are asking for more detail and clarification.

There you go again with your clever comments.

The Horizontal Property Laws (Spain) were put in place to guide community owners, administrations and presidents etc on what is legal and what is not. 

The question is; are these administrations/presidents legal or ilegal in their actions to exclude 50% owners from these decisions?

Maybe if the owners voice was respected we could find out if we want to object or dig deep and find out the kW per hour rates were.

You mind telling us if you would not mind someone borrowing your debit card to make a few purchases without your knowledge?

You do anything but answer the questions.  But you keep coming back with more clever remarks instead of telling us your interpretation of the laws. 

Do you know what the HPL's are? I'm beginning to wonder.

Horizontal Property Laws (Spain) are Spanish laws that people should only take advice and guidance from qualified professionals.

Were owners excluded from decisions or not interested or out of touch in the UK?

The current price with IBERDROLA 0,184555 €/kWh

I would not mind paying for the supply of community electricity to charging points for disabled wheelchair users in any method, Debit Card, Credit Card, Bank Transfer or Cash. Are you alleging the previous president illegally used your debit card?

Horizontal Property Laws (Spain) are Spanish laws that people should only take advice and guidance from qualified professionals. 🤦‍♂️👍🤣 Now i know i have a professional on my hands 👍

Were owners excluded from decisions or not interested or out of touch in the UK? 🤦‍♂️🤣👍 excellent, you guess correct on one count....but which guess is correct👍

The current price with IBERDROLA 0,184555 €/kWh 🤦‍♂️ wrong supplier, you'll have to try again.

I would not mind paying for the supply of community electricity to charging points for disabled wheelchair users in any method, Debit Card, Credit Card, Bank Transfer or Cash. Are you alleging the previous president illegally used your debit card? That wasn't the question, you can answer the question if you feel like it, at any time 🤦‍♂️

Thanks for taking such an interest. Your participation is going to be invaluable to 🤔🤦‍♂️

Jules-Ben w/o wishing to sound unkind I reckon you're on a loser on all counts - the loss of your tools, the electricity issue, the absence of notification of changes, the EGM and with Kavanagh. 

I do sympathise though - I've been too trusting in the past with similar experiences.  From the outline provided you don't have a hope of a successful insurance claim or in any form of court either.

I've learnt that you need to be ultra cautious before buying in Spain - in hindsight buying in a small development with one dominant owner may be an additional hazard?  Particularly a local, they invariably ignore the rules they don't like!

Thank you for responding.

Jules-Ben w/o wishing to sound unkind I reckon you're on a loser on all counts - the loss of your tools, the electricity issue, the absence of notification of changes, the EGM and with Kavanagh. Is it possible you could elaborate further on all these points please? Spanish HPL's state owners have to agree for thier funds to be used for the charging of private electric wheelchairs.

I do sympathise though - I've been too trusting in the past with similar experiences.  From the outline provided you don't have a hope of a successful insurance claim or in any form of court either. We're not after making any insurance claims. We've been trying to achieve justice. Please explain why you don't believe court action is worthwhile?

I've learnt that you need to be ultra cautious before buying in Spain - in hindsight buying in a small development with one dominant owner may be an additional hazard?  Particularly a local, they invariably ignore the rules they don't like! The problem in this building is two dominant brother in laws renting out 6 apartments between them.  The admin is with them and their actions too. All unelected while covid is with us.

Lawyer has been notified, awaiting response.

Social Media / Forums are ok for opinion's etc.....but how often do these sites give a true account of the facts of matters such as in this case?

Jules-Ben w/o wishing to sound unkind I reckon you're on a loser on all counts - the loss of your tools, the electricity issue, the absence of notification of changes, the EGM and with Kavanagh. Is it possible you could elaborate further on all these points please? Spanish HPL's state owners have to agree for thier funds to be used for the charging of private electric wheelchairs.   

As with most laws the HPL is only observed by some,  Your options for redress are limited.  Unless you're name is Donald Trump you're likely to accept this and move on.

I do sympathise though - I've been too trusting in the past with similar experiences.  From the outline provided you don't have a hope of a successful insurance claim or in any form of court either. We're not after making any insurance claims. We've been trying to achieve justice. Please explain why you don't believe court action is worthwhile?

The facts speak themselves - the loss is modest the costs of action and hassle and chances of success are small.

I've learnt that you need to be ultra cautious before buying in Spain - in hindsight buying in a small development with one dominant owner may be an additional hazard?  Particularly a local, they invariably ignore the rules they don't like! The problem in this building is two dominant brother in laws renting out 6 apartments between them.  The admin is with them and their actions too. All unelected while covid is with us.

The point you're making is unclear - this alone is not actionable.

Lawyer has been notified, awaiting response.

Wouldn't hold your breath!

Social Media / Forums are ok for opinion's etc.....but how often do these sites give a true account of the facts of matters such as in this case?

The big problem is that too often folk don't wish to hear the truth - they prefer platitudes.

Interesting posts, some of the problems are quite obvious here, so many people move, or buy property in a different country to the one they were born into and somehow expect the laws and rules to be the same as their home country, and of course the shock sets in when they find out that are not the same, and never will be, no amount of reasoning, moaning or excuse's will ever change what you are used to in your home country, and sometimes even thats hard to beat.

Interesting posts, some of the problems are quite obvious here, so many people move, or buy property in a different country to the one they were born into and somehow expect the laws and rules to be the same as their home country, and of course the shock sets in when they find out that are not the same, and never will be, no amount of reasoning, moaning or excuse's will ever change what you are used to in your home country, and sometimes even thats hard to beat.

Thank you for your response. We're well aware Spain is not the United Kingdom. The thinking is very different on many aspects.

Rest assured, we are looking to apply Spanish HPL's to these matters.

In practice the HPL is not detailed and seems to be treated more as guidance.   Often the intenion of the text is ambiguous. 

The President has considerable day to day authority, but in theory the AGM/EGM is all important, but sometimes these don't happen as regularly as required by the HPL.

But you are going to be out voted whichever way you go, even if you waste money on legal opinon.  You'll also  struggle to find any Spanish solicitor who'll seriously support a Brit against a local - that makes no business sense at all to them!

It's a bit like buying into a company as a minority shareholder.  You can make a lot of fuss, threaten legal action, but it changes nothing - particularly in Spain where they generally don't take rules too seriously.  

You can "look to apply" whatever you like - I very much doubt if it will ever happen.

In practice the HPL is not detailed and seems to be treated more as guidance.   Often the intenion of the text is ambiguous. Is it possible you can guide us in the direction of what you see as guidance in HPL's in relation to only our points raised please?

The President has considerable day to day authority, but in theory the AGM/EGM is all important, but sometimes these don't happen as regularly as required by the HPL. This president does nothing, takes care of his one unit rental business. Never responds to any correspondence.  Doesn't live in building. Never actions anyone flouting agreed rules.

But you are going to be out voted whichever way you go, even if you waste money on legal opinon.  You'll also  struggle to find any Spanish solicitor who'll seriously support a Brit against a local - that makes no business sense at all to them! I'll show your opinion on Spanish lawyer to them, see if it winds them up 👍

It's a bit like buying into a company as a minority shareholder.  You can make a lot of fuss, threaten legal action, but it changes nothing - particularly in Spain where they generally don't take rules too seriously.  

You can "look to apply" whatever you like - I very much doubt if it will ever happen. Is it possible you can evidence your doubts please?

Jules-Ben - you seem intent on blaming the other owners, but the problems appear to be very much of your own making. 

We all make mistakes, you need to accept the situation and move on.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks for your response. We've asked several times for clarity to the beliefs, opinions and feelings on this forum but its not forthcoming.

We're not for walking away from individuals who are unprincipled and unscrupulous. We prefer to teach them lessons in morality.

Jules-Ben - you seem intent on blaming the other owners, but the problems appear to be very much of your own making.  Now i am baffled.....if possible, could you please explain how "the problems appear to be very much of my own making" please?

We all make mistakes, you need to accept the situation and move on. But we don't do we? If the president and admins are crooked they are worth pursuing.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Thank you. It's a struggle but last man standing it will be.

I'll put my pennyworth in.  The original poster is suggesting / inferring that the only other person holding the key to the store in which the tools were stored is the person responsible for stealing them.  I don't believe that for one moment the allegation would hold up in a court of law. There are a myriad of possiblities as to how the tools went missing i.e. the 2nd key holder may have left the door open unlocked by mistake and some other person entered and removed the tools.  Someone else (a close family member perhaps) took the key and stole the tools themselves or indeed made a copy of the key for someone else to enter and steal.  If the original poster is intent on seeking justice, then it's up to him/her to make a formal complaint to the police and let them investigate.  I can't give an opinion on community issues.

I'll put my pennyworth in.  The original poster is suggesting / inferring that the only other person holding the key to the store in which the tools were stored is the person responsible for stealing them.  I don't believe that for one moment the allegation would hold up in a court of law. There are a myriad of possiblities as to how the tools went missing i.e. the 2nd key holder may have left the door open unlocked by mistake and some other person entered and removed the tools.  Someone else (a close family member perhaps) took the key and stole the tools themselves or indeed made a copy of the key for someone else to enter and steal.  If the original poster is intent on seeking justice, then it's up to him/her to make a formal complaint to the police and let them investigate.  I can't give an opinion on community issues.

Fully agree with this. The tools situation is near impossible to fix (legally). Dad and lad stole the tools, the lad even pointed the finger at his old fella when confronted last time, but he won't admit that to cops.

Apart from the tools theft, if anyone has experienced any of the other issues we've mentioned, we would like to hear from you.

Jules-Ben - to have any hope of success in court you need to have some form of evidence, either proof of a theft, or responsibility for the lost goods by another party, be it liability under contact, at common law, or negligence or other relevant tort - but you appear to have nothing at all, presumably not even that the items were in the room in the first place?

Yours is one of the flimsiest case I've heard of for many years.  Many years ago I had one that possibly competes - it was a simple road traffic accident where the would be client told me he wanted me to issue proceedings against the other driver for recovery of his losses etc.  He told me that he had driven into the back of another vehicle due to the fact that the break lights on the other vehicle weren't working.  Not a good start.  But I thought there must be more to it, so I asked this chap for the Police report or whatever he had to substantiate his case and his reply was "naaa I ain't got nothing like that as his car was all smashed up and probably to be written-off"!  

Quite weirdly he wasn't joking - some folk do have difficulty in accepting responsibility for their own actions.

Jules-Ben - to have any hope of success in court you need to have some form of evidence, either proof of a theft, or responsibility for the lost goods by another party, be it liability under contact, at common law, or negligence or other relevant tort - but you appear to have nothing at all, presumably not even that the items were in the room in the first place? Acer, we have picture evidence, a text from the daughter/sister stating only her dad and myself held keys to this room means nothing too....the police asked for this evidence then did not follow up enquiries. Maybe you can forget about the tools situation as its the least important to us. If you like you can share your beliefs, opinions and feelings on the others items?

Yours is one of the flimsiest case I've heard of for many years.  Are the stolen tools the only point you can provide any comment on? 🤦‍♂️

Many years ago I had one that possibly competes - it was a simple road traffic accident where the would be client told me he wanted me to issue proceedings against the other driver for recovery of his losses etc.  He told me that he had driven into the back of another vehicle due to the fact that the break lights on the other vehicle weren't working.  Not a good start.  But I thought there must be more to it, so I asked this chap for the Police report or whatever he had to substantiate his case and his reply was "naaa I ain't got nothing like that as his car was all smashed up and probably to be written-off"!  You have a knack for attracting high end clients i see 👍

Quite weirdly he wasn't joking - some folk do have difficulty in accepting responsibility for their own actions.  For what actions do i have to take responsibility for?

Are you also staying with stolen tools or are you going to use all your expertise to comment on the other issues? It's your choice.....