When is Completion?

Hello to everyone in this Forum

I bought a off-plan property in September 2005 and was due to completion approx December 2007 .I recieved an e-mail from my solicitor on 28th December 2007 informing me they had certificate of building works finished and that they could then apply for the habitation licence and arranging the 10 years insurance for the building

the developer hopes to begin signature of deeds of purchase and sale with clients in the beginning of February , but this would be without the habitation licence ,so i will not sign until all the paperwork is in place

Does this mean the Developer is in breach of contract because the property is not going to be ready untill March possibly?

if that is the case at what point could i inform my solicitor i would my deposit back

any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated

 

 

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The developers always have a lee way in their contracts. 3 months overdue is nothing.  Many properties are years overdue.! Certificate of end of works is just what it says. Work completed. Do not complete for any reason without getting and seeing the LFO for your property.

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DO you have a Bank Guarantee according to Law 57/68? You shousl be able to execute it and get your money inmediatelyback if that is in palce?

Have you been informed and asked on the delay? Did you expressly allow it? If not, developer are in breach of contract since the date stated in the contracr: It does not mean they will honour the contract and may put excuses for not refunding to you.

There are dozens of pieces of advice regarding this in this Forum, but if you want our word: our founded legal opinion ( based on basic contract law and consumers Law) is that you have got rights for cancellation and of course for price reduction too.

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As Tish said

Dont complete without an L.F.O unless your  independent solicitor advises different,

There are hundreds if not thousands that have heeded this advice over the past few years and stand to loose their deposit when their developer goes bust,some  however  may get their deposits back.  ( not seen many yet however)

Some may see the development demolished and consideration may have to be made here.

One fits all is a dangerous game and listen to an independent  solicitor on your particular case and never to a one off one size fits all comment on a forum.

 

Just Dan

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Hello Maria,

You said:

DO you have a Bank Guarantee according to Law 57/68? You shousl be able to execute it and get your money immediately back if that is in palce?

If this is the law in Spain then why do the Judges not adhere to that law? Why are people having to go as far as the High Court in Madrid which is costing tens of thousands of euros in legal fees to get back what is rightfully theirs.? It is very well to say  there is a law to protect consumers, but it is not being implemented by the Courts.

Five people that I know have Bank Guarantees. The first hearing upheld their case, money was paid into the Court but on the Banks appeal the second hearing went against them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It now has to go on appeal to the High Court.  This will not happen until 2009 , four years after they should have taken possesion of their property, had the LFO been granted. This is not justice. It is just one example of the same thing happening to not hundreds but thousands of people.

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DODES, I reiterate, if you bought an off plan apartment  since 2003, any good lawyer would advise you not to complete until the LFO has been issued,  To loose 10% deposit is far less painful than losing 100% if it  never gets the LFO because of illegalities. Aside from which, you cannot get a mortgage or sell on without this important document.

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Hello Tish:

I am very sorry to hear on that person´s case, but to honor the truth I need to say that there are many cases in favor of purchasers and that those executive procedures are rarely lost. I would like to know what grounds were used in first instance and what grounds in appealing.

We could  tell you cases of out of courts settlements with developers, straight execution of bank guarantees and succesful litigation for refundings.

It is truth that justice is fully imperfect, but,  as already discussed in a different thread, I think I remember., unfortunately, it is imperfect everywhere!

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As Tish says

What appears to be the law and what is happening is far from reality.as hundreds if not thousands of us will confirm and its made to sound like an easy and straight forward proceedure

5 years and little chance of a hearing in 2008 with a good solicitor tells me thats not the case.

With regards to loosing just 10% deposit (if only)is also so far from reality as is the advice to not listen to your solicitor on your individual case..

This one fits all is a dangerous game to play as many will find out and each case must be on an individual basis and the only ones that would disagree are those with nothing to loose.

Anyone should consider any advice which is different from their own indenpendent the legal advice given to them by any forum with great caution.

You are also able to get a mortgage on most developments caught in the net at the wrong time as 100s/1000s will confirm.

When licences get issued there may well be heavy penalties for example 6% with backdated community fees.

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/15/2008.

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i would like to thank people for their advice and obviously their own experiences and that was one of the main reasons to join this forum so i could gather more information

i will not hand over any more money untill i have all the licences and to be fair to the developer they have not asked for the remaining 70% of the total cost of the apartment (yet)

as i mentioned in previous posts i i wanted to know if my developer was in breach of contract and what possible avenues were open to me ie possible refund of my 30% or price reduction

as some many of you remind me that the more information you gather the better you are for the problems ahead

so once again i will thank you for all your advice

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Maria

In your post yesterday evening you mention "rights for a price reduction".

We put a deposit on a off plan property in Mijas in April 2003.  The completion date in our contract is December 2005.  In January 2007 a new developer was appointed who agreed to take over the contracts but none of the owners was contacted and asked if they agreed to extend the contract.  We were not given a new contract with a new completion date.  The properties are still not complete, but he LFO has been applied for.  We have waited and not asked for our deposit back as we really want the apartment, but we would like to ask for a reduction in the price as compensation and would like your advice on how much it is reasonable to ask for and whether there is any law regarding this.

Thank you for any help you can give.

 

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Just Dan.

I agree with you. The real battle just can be won if you have your own good independent legal advisor. Better in a negotiated / out of court settlement but, unfortunately ,most frequently the cases are going to litigation and even when having full legal grounds for the claim, there is always a risk involved in any litigation. There is a spanish saying " Mejor un mal acuerdo que un buen pleito" ( "Better a bad agreement- meaning out of courts- than a good trial")

I wonder if developers are starting to allow  good price discounts to overcome the "bad times". Rentals are also on the perspective for the restauration of the Real Estate arena in Spain. New measures to promote renting with option to buy are being promoted this week by the National Government.

I think that imagination and synergy of forces can alleviate this adverse situation. We cannot just keep expecting what we had and do not have anymore  but we need to  look for new agreements and  new ways to make things less painful.

We are meeting with one important developer ( with many disatisfied clients) and one estate agent ( with many frustrated clients as well) in order to find out if we can find new ways for our clients.

Hope the best to all of you, even if it needs to be through litigation!

Maria

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Maria

Am hopeful that an out of court settlement will be the outcome as my apartment which was supposed to have a 26sqms garden appears to have vanished.

They are saying that they have the right to change anything they want to and the 2 year delay and no L.F.O is not their fault.

Now I may or may not win but as this has been going on for 5 years without even a date for a court appearance in 2008, no out of court offer will be made unless their hand is forced.

Mine appears to be a straight forward case of not getting what is on the deeds,no L.F.O.going on three years late so what chance do the rest have.

Dan

P.S the agreement and liar senario is the same as both my and my solicitor agree with as there are to many liars.

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/15/2008.

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Sorry, I meant to say 30% deposit not 10%

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