Problems with electricity

We have had a piece in the paper about how bad our builder is. We have found out in February of this year we have water and s***t under our building.

We asked him to fix it and he obviously refused saying plumbing is only covered for 3 years. We have had 2 spanish plumbing firms in the inspect it and both say it is the builders fault and it is incomplete work.

We are at our wits end we have been quoted about 9 grand to take him to court but we may not win and none of the builders can give an estimate because there is so much to do and the meter high water needs pumping out first. (we have done this once but it came back again in two weeks

We asked the town hall for help because we have habitation certificates but who passed incomplete pipes? Not their problem we have been told.

Anyone who can give us any help with this problem would be our friend for life. 

DIY DAVE

Dear All,

not sure how there can be shame without the names?

the chap who did the tv show received various accolades, does he operate in the area?

Can Maria tell us how one can hold the giver of the occupancy licence accountable?

How are extra blocks added, pool and garden facilities reduced after planning is granted, where is the control?

Perhaps Techno knows?

Good luck

Regards

Norman

Dear All,

sorry I was not clear and have received pm query so:-

as an engineer and surveyor I liked it and commented among others.

It was 

- We take a look at the issue of damp in properties in Spain

on the Siesta show

Regards

Norman

Hello there yes i have named and shamed my satelite installation company. i think when yo get to a certain stage after giving chance after chance this is the only way forward. It was a company called dream digital based on las kalendas fortuna murcia please find below a copy of the thread i posted on this website.

Hi there all. can anyone tell me if they have heard of Dream digital.sl or have had any work carried out by dream digital.sl. I have had a satellite installaion carried out by this company back in january 2009. It is there internet subscription service in which they provide a very large package of channels inc all sky and setanta sports channels. Firstly once it was it installed i never recieved full service untill approx 3 week later and this was even after paying the full install (945 euro) and subscription fee (340 euro) up front. Any way to cut a long story short since it did come on up to current day i dont think i have had more than 2 full weeks of solid viewing with out this service going off. I also have all the e mails to back this up in which i have had to send to dream digital to complain. Dream digital in there defence state the subscription is provided via another company but for some reason they can not provide this companies details only a msn address. (how bizzare). Well it was established some time back now that my box was also faulty and would be replaced. guess what im still waiting but keep getting fobbed off with a load of lies as it as been like this from day 1. It is now another  3 weeks since i have had service and not once has dream digital had the courtesy to offer a temporary solution allowing me to view the service i have paid for.

Well please be aware of this service as it will cost you more than the 340 euro subscription fee just trying to get hold of dream digital as there customer service department i dont think exists either. I have passed this issue over to my legal team now and they are finding it very hard to locate any legal compay registered in the name of dream digital sl (very strange) also they are struggling to find any legal company in the name of Local Media Telecomunicaciones S.A either. this is the company dream digital state are responsible for my service. The actual service is being questioned as to if it is legal.

Well i have give this (young man) as known on this forum ample opportunity to correct this and still nothing has been done. I feel it is only fair to warn people of this situation so no one else gets ripped off. To make you known dream digital is run by more commonly known as (aarron of fortuna sat). But may i tak this opportunity to inform residents that this installation has no connection to fortuna sat.

This is a genuine case an all e mails can be viewed to back this case up.

Norman... I cannot understand the question you have directed to me:

I quote you: "Can Maria tell us how one can hold the giver of the occupancy licence accountable?"

Can you please explain further?

Hello Maria,

as you may recall, there was little that was promised in my proposed purchase that was delivered from the brochure of Casares.

The build quality was poor by inspection and visual survey which gave no confidence that hidden items like drainage was likely to be safely working. Kitchen layout was actually dangerous, damp penetration was evident and sizes were seriously reduced.

In my and my surveyors' professional experience the apartment should have not even passed the standard necessary to obtain an occupation licence. In addition to the planning breaches by introducing two additional blocks and reducing pools and exterior space.

Therefore the question is how do you hold the authorities that passed the planning and issued the occupation licence responsible for what they have passed when it is clearly deficient?

Surely with off-plan schemes the responsible authorities' supervision is essential to all proposed purchasers.

Regards

Norman

Dear Norman:

Of course you can challenge the administrative act of concession of First Occupation License before the Courts. Timeframes for this are 2 and 3 months after the License is granted, depending on cases.

Best,

MAria

Dear Maria,

unfortunately the time frame is ridiculously short, quite impractical, has anyone ever successfully challenged It?

What is it about the Spanish mindset that public officials do not take direct responsibility for their actions, without the continual reference to the courts, where the justice is so much of a gamble and seemingly delayed everlastingly?

As a matter of interest, does Spain have more lawyers than the rest of Europe?

One hears of many stories of people successfully winning cases against developers as long as ten years ago but still not yet getting their money.

All legal delay encourages corruption I think.

Regards

Norman

Dear Norman:

Yes, I do agree with you that legal delays encorage corruption.

Yes, we do have in Spain several procedures for revision of administrative acts by the Administration itself.

Have a great weekend,

Maria

normansands

I have asked Maria similar questions over the years, without any response from her sadly. I do realise Maria has been a big help, and I apprieciate all the advice she has given on other matters. 

I think you are smack on regarding Spanish public officials and justice. When someone or something is clearly wrong/corrupt etc, it's often just not recognised, and the innocent parties are forced to go through long and costly court battles, when it could be regulated against at a much more local level, IF those in a position to regulate against the crooks just used common sense!!!.  That attitude does indeed encourage corruption, much like any punishment that doesn't fit the crime.  Quite often a case is heard in court, and the judge will take months to make a decision. How open is that to corruption?, and how crazy, when the chances of the developer/agent going bust in the meantime could render the claim useless anyway!!  How many times do we read of the same agent/developer going to court time and time again through screwing some poor soul who's just followed the rules. Shouldn't that start alarm bells ringing with the judges????

The system stinks, and is very clearly wrong. Special measures should be bought in to regulate against obvious swindling/dishonesy/con merchants and the like, and special measures bought in to hurry cases through court while there is still something to claim against. Just common sense surely?, but so often the laws are just not implemented, or if they are, far far to slowy, leaving the innocent party ruined. That in itself is a crime in my opinion, and if Spain can't or wont put it right then the EU should. We are expected to follow rules from them, why the hell should we, if they are not prepared to do something about this very obvious lack of common sense and justice going on in Spain. It really is a disgrace.

Dear Goodsticth,

whilst sympathising with you as a fellow sufferer, who has perhaps lost more to the crooks than yourself, I wonder whether you are doing the right thing both financially and rationally.

You appear to me to be confusing "common sense" with "honesty and integrity".

If the majority of the population support and expect corruption then you are wasting your time and money on a search for "common sense". Your disappointment is, I am afraid, inevitable.

If the majority of lawyers are actively working with the criminals, then they are themselves corrupt. If the populace regard this as the norm and the judges are elected from this majority it follows that they also will expect and support corruption.

Given this state of affairs, what can you possible win?

Given also that Spain may not be the worst of the community, how can you expect that Europe will intervene on your behalf?

The one thing you can be sure of is that lawyers will bill you for huge sums, right or wrong, good or bad, brilliant or appalling.

Whilst I share your high opinion of Maria, she can only sustain that opinion if she can make it happen.

When she says that in Spain everything promised in the off-plan brochure must be provided, she must be right, but if the judges and other lawyers do not support her, she is merely proving that you are right and that the system in Spain "stinks".

All regardless of the few good people with honesty and integrity.

Good luck as always.

Regards

Norman

I'd like to take the opportunity to name and shame Procumasa S.A

They are attempting to charge 300euros to arrange the water meter installation for each property on our urbanisation.

A good percentage of this is to recoup some of the cost of the water we have consumed whilst on builders supply. We have had to wait for a long time on builders supply because of some unknown technical reasons between Procumasa and Fortuna City Council.

If we do not pay up the water will be cut off on 1 June.

They are preventing us from doing it ourselves by them witholding the Boletin del Fontanero Instalador Sellado por industria and the First occupation licence.

I name and Shame Procumasa as well full dupport DENNIS

1. Water 300 euro extortion!

2. Urbanization thats amenities should be working in unmaintained or unusable condition

3. Shoddy workmanship on Properties and not willing toput things right, not willing to discuss or answer the phone

4. Refusing to do repairs using the credit crunch as an excuse but will answer the phone to extort snd blackmail money out of residents for water

5. Sewage plant that is not working correctly and overflow water being used for watering the urbanization

WELCOME TO MOSQUITO KALENDAS

6. DO NOT BUY FROM PROCUMASA HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS IN THE POCKET

I name and Shame Procumasa as well full support DENNIS

. DO NOT BUY FROM PROCUMASA HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS IN THE POCKET

normansands said

''You appear to me to be confusing "common sense" with "honesty and integrity".

If the majority of the population support and expect corruption then you are wasting your time and money on a search for "common sense". Your disappointment is, I am afraid, inevitable.''

normansands

you could be right on the above, but I hope not!. I have tried to avoid this opinion, as if the tables were turned, I wouldn't like to think that all english people are compared to the crooks we know about, like those from the UK working in the Spanish property industry for instance. I still like to think that the majority of Spanish people are ok, like the majority of english. Of course the political and economic history has formed strong opinions, and encouraged corruption and lack of regulation but we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. I believe there are good lawyers/agents/developers in Spain, but due to the crap rules that encourage the scum bags and the painfully slow and often poorly implemented justice system, the good guys don't get a chance to rise above the rubbish.

I think change is in the air though?. Spains situation now, is I think forcing them to come to terms with the monster they have created through a system that stinks. Cases against crooks are being won. Still a hell of a long way to go though.

All the best to you as always.