old story Community debtors

Does anyone out there know how we can take debtors to court without the aid of an Administrator.  Our urbanisation is four years old and we still have owners who have never paid.  Their gardens have been weeded etc, out of Community money and the outstanding fees total nearly twenty thousand euros which is not bad to say the Community charge is only three hundred a year!

We are on our third Administrator and despite the promises before we employed them, they like the last two will not start court action.  We cannot understand this, and always get promises of next week when we ask!! 

Why not consult a lawyer? The president is the legal representative of the community, not the administrator, so you don't need the administrator to authorise or initiate legal proceedings.

Probably Maria can advise you.

Thanks Roberto

Was thinking of giving it one last shot but the Administrators are not answering the phone now!  Oh well at least we are only paying them 330 euros a month for nothing against the last lot that we paid 840 a month for the same nada!  

  When I do get some response I will mention that we are thinking (thanks for the suggestion) of employing a laywer and also thinking of deducting the cost from their fees!

Interesting that there's such a huge difference in fees. I was given to understand that administrator's fees for communities are determined by the College of Administrators, based on the number and type of properties within the community, in which case your previous admin., were not only ripping you off, but also flouting the rules set down by their own professional body.

Colegio de Adminstradores: http://www.cgcafe.org/indexx.htm First stop for complaints!

Thanks Roberto

If we had anyone fluent in Spanish (well anyone with any interest in the Community ) I would have taken this matter further.  Not only did they overcharge us they did nothing.  I wrote the agenda, and took and wrote the minutes of all and every meeting.  I also have written the Community website from day 1.  If you could have seen the state of the accounts they presented at our A.G.M. last December you would have laughed, unlike me who cried!  No wonder they did not have them ready to send out with the invitation (or the budget, or the debtors list).    Good job I have always kept copy bank statements and copies of every bill we have paid and I was able to present a full set of accounts for validation by the new Admininstators!  Oh and lots of the proxy voting forms voting them out suprisingly did not appear and at the A.G.M.  they could have been less interested if they had tried. 

The best bit was in the month before the A.G.M.  the boss of the outfit came to see me and said that he could lower his charges to 700 a month but he would have to offer a lesser service!  What a cheek they could not have offered a lesser service then they gave.

I'm no accountant, but our administrator's book keeping is, to say the least, "creative".

When I took over the presidency two years ago, he presented the year end accounts at the AGM showing us with a healthy balance. We all fell for it. Based on this apparent balance, it was unanimously agreed to fork out copious amounts of dinero on an automatic irrigation system for the garden, which I instigated as my first task. Neither the administrator, nor the outgoing president, who really should have known better since it was his responsibilty to sign off the accounts, pointed out that the figures were misleading. The meeting was in mid-April, and the majority of fees for the first quarter of the new financial year had already been paid. This amount was added to the income for the year ended 31st March. By the time I noticed this error, we were already commited to spending money we didn't have, and for the next 12 months I struggled to juggle the little money we did have. Finally I had to give in and request an extraordinary payment at the next AGM.

Denise, it sounds like you have things well under control. I too have kept my own records of everythng, and am 100% confident that the new president will not have any similar problems.

Re our problem with the debtors, I have at last had a long chat with our Administrator (she is not too bad really).

It would seem that one of our biggest debtors has not actually bought the property and despite  denials it is still owned by the builder!  So hopefully, we can now get the cash, and the garden landscaped.

She then went on to say that she has to have a copy  of the builder´s licence to take the debtors to court (yes a new one on me as well) which is why there has been no court action started in the last three years.  No one has ever mentioned this one before.  Nonetheless, she is getting this document next week and then after sending more letters to the debtors we are taking all of them to court!   I have never heard of any court action (for debtors that is) has anyone else.  I would like to know the procedure that follows next

Hi deniseaynycs,

We are almost at the end of our first attempt at  taking debtors to court....................we actually have 2 embargos ready to be placed on 2 properties and are awaiting the court dates for another 3 debtors.

HOWEVER...........this has taken TWO years so far!!    The procedure begins with the Community ( at an AGM or EGM )  giving the Presidente the go ahead to take the debtors to Court ( by majority vote ) Then he/she signs the relevent papers provided by the Community Lawyer.....................and then YOU WAIT..................................AND WAIT.......................................................

You have to wait soooooooooooooooo long ( in our area ) because there are 6 court rooms at Orihuela and they are chocca block with cases.

We did NOT have a copy of the building licence to begin this procedure and I can't think why you would need one.

Good Luck and have lots of patience.......................you'll need it !!!!

Thanks for that Karensun,

I think we are in the same area for courts etc, as we are in Villamartin.  I can´t understand the need for the building licence either.  I have a meeting with the Administrator next week and will let you know, she checks most things with the college which I suppose is a good thing.  I am hoping that just the letters stating court action has started will be enough, but then I am ever the optomist!

When you say you have two emargos does that mean these have already gone through the court system, or at least some stage of it?  I had asked, and the Community voted at the A.G.M.´s 2006, 2007 and 2008 to take the debtors to court but for some reason (and we have had three) the Administrator is reluctant.   If it does not happen this time I will do what has been recommended on this site and consult a solicitor about it.

Yes, the 2 with embargos have been through court and that is the result......................the court will now decide whether to sell the property at auction adn/or bar the owner from the property.

Also the original debt has trebled with court costs.

Let me know how you get on or if I can help in any way, even if it's just a good old chunter which helps at times!!!