Beginners step by step guide to Polaris completion

Hello,
      we are complete novices and found the whole purchase of an apartment in Condado Alahama (Jardines) very scary. Not helped very much by Polaris pushing but giving little advice on what you need to do. We made it up as we went along, it was painful but after speaking to others who were also completing we weren't alone. I hope the points below help,

1. Get a solicitor.
We never had one at the start but hired one for completion.  We hadn't a clue how to get one so spoke to the agent and were recommend Pablo Fernandez Marcos. 0034 96 692 75 84, Pablo has English staff and we dealt with Christine and Tania who were excellent in guiding us through everything plus were always willing to give advise. Costs were 800euros, if you had a mortgage or 600euros without.

They also offer other services, i.e. for 60 euros/year will deal with electiricity/water suppliers who I have heard are problematic. Also will handle wealth/rates forms and made a point of saying they are still available after completion so don't simple walk away.

To get going they require copy of contracts, passport etc which I just scanned and emailed across.

2. Polaris.
We dealt with Silvia, we've heard they can be hit an miss but felt Polaris only looked after themselves and no one else. Very disappointed, they contact you to hassle you but don't explain the process hence the reason we are writting this item.

3. Mortgage.
We just took on the CAM bank mortgage of  60% i.e. 74700euros. We have 2 years Interest only and  pay eurobor + 1.1% which I think is reasonable giving the saving you make not having to take out a new mortgage. Early repayment charges is 0.5% in 1st 2 years then 0.25%.  If you take out a mortgage over the builders amount then this it'self had fee's which are high, for an extra 10%, 12000 euro's it would have cost 1000euros. We funded from the UK. 

The current account interest is negligible but have euro/pound savings accounts but the rates start around 4% and  you had to fix for 1,3,6,12 months.

We dealt with Sven, again very helpful.  The mortgage would have taken around a month to finalise but we had a delay with Polaris failing to supply receipts of my payments (i had mislaid one), but after several chases to Polaris and a stroppy email the forwarded this on. I later found my own copy at the back of the drawer :(

p.s. we never did get bank guarantees from Polaris but by this stage no use.

For the docs they require like, P60, current accounts, Expedian credit check, Polaris contract, application forms etc. I just scanned in an emailed.

They have an online banking service which is in english and very comprehensive.

4. NIE
If you don't take CAM bank then Polaris were saying we would have to arrange our own NIE number. For Polaris this involved me send in a filled in form and passport copy. Once in Spain for completion they took you to the NIE office where you jumped ahead of the huge queue of immigrants to show your actual passport and then collect your piece of paper. On the day there must have been around 16 off us there, Polaris will ferry you in their minibus but were okay with us taking our own car and going in convoy. 

Pre Completion.
Polaris will hassle for a completion date saying you must complete by such a date, suppose to get shot of the property.mortgage costs. Don't feel pressurised the Solicitor should be the one to dictate timescalee. We agreed a date, then things slipped a month, then more delays and had to rush, overall best to leave to the solicitor to handle.

Solicitor will not suggest a completion date till Polaris provide a habitation certificate, there were getting no response so it took me to send another stroppy email to Polaris to get this emailed through and to find it was dated a month previous. This certificate proves all the formal planning, etc has been completed and signed off.

CAM bank will provide costs to complete, notary, mortgage, bank fees etc. The solicitor will also vet. Below are our completion fees,

Solicitor                                         = 800 €
Bank Mortgage Fees @ 0.75% = 560.25 €
Stamp Duty @1%                         = 1,332 €
Notary Fees                                   = 1,100 €
Land Registry Fees                     = 528 € 
Gestion Management                    = 316 €

For completion you need to transfer all the funds to your CAM bank account, CAM on the day will ask you to sign transfer forms to pay all fees, 

Snagging.
Polaris will give you an appointment, we aren;t expert so asked snagitmurcia to complete on our behalf. Would recommend you get someone else to do it as they know Polaris, know what to expect/common issues. We thought we were pinicketty but missed quite a few things. Think we were somewhat blinded as this being the first time we had seen the property. The £230 spent will save on you flying over to check again. 


So we flew over what next?

Monday 9am turned up at Polaris HQ for NIE. 
As previously went in convoy around 9:30am to NIE office in Murcia with around 16 people, Polaris staff asked us to wait 40mins (in a bar) whislt they made arrangements. They then took us into the side office in small groups to show our passport and collect the form. We were first group to go in and were finished around 11am, then just left. Using the Polaris minibus means you have to wait for all to finish also then have to head back to PW HQ. This meant some people were late for snagging appointments or notary arranged for noon. Sounds obvious but suggest you get out a day or so early to find out where the office, Notary, CAM bank are etc. 

The NIE office is at Avenida de Almeria, Edificio Volante, Murcia. With a large queue of people outside and wayoff round the corner
 
Polaris use about 3 notary's we heard, ours was Alfredo Hita, Ctra San Pedro del Pinatro, no22 izquierda, San Javier. Only a short walk from the town square.

Mon 1am - CAM bank
Around 1pm went to CAM office to sign mortgage papers, this is beside the church in San Javier town. They have a dedicated office so can't walk in but need to attract their attention to come and open the door, They close around 3pm.

CAM also need to see your home insurance policy, Polaris were expensive at £180 but got this Intrasure for £120.

I expected to pick up my debit card but this was with Sven in Mar Menor CAM bank which is based in the supper market. Took a trip their later in the week. Sven handed over the card an pin number, and their is an ATM outside so you can change your pin. Also Sven activate my CAM online account handing over the security card. He also demo'd the system.

Tuesday 9am - snagging.
Again 9am but we got lost, so arrived 20mins later. Drive up is very impressive but it is still a huge building site. You go straigt over the main round about and stop at the portacabin office on the left. From their you and Polaris rep go to your property. Snagging took around 1 hour, snagitmurcia documented faults, showed polaris and they also took notes. We had a cracked upvc window frame, scratches on worktop/wardrobe door, missing grout/chipped tiles etc.

Tuesday noon - Notary.
This is a  very busy office, Polaris, CAM bank are premanently camped out here. You need to arrange for you solicitor/other mortgage provide to attend. Once there people are allocated numbers an you wait till people infront complete. If they have issues you wait even longer and dont seem to realise they can let others use the various offices whilst they wait. There is no drink facilities so bring water, and be prepared for a 4 hour wait. Process was,

Solicitor ran though the contract to make sure details are correct and you understand terms. Only issue I had was around Polaris being able to change future plans - whereas I've bought into the idea of this being a large 3 course resort (once planning is approved) Polaris could still decide to do something else.  

Things can go wrong, whilst there one chaps forms had the wrong plot number, he was still their when we left, another had changed the names on the property, Polaris hadn't updated the docs and the client was left trying to arrange from someone in the UK to fax through power of attourney. This long wait is one reason why people handover power to the solicitor so they hang around.

CAM bank came in to explain mortgage terms and for signing of transfer forms. Also to state no outstanding loans on property.

Polaris came in to hand over 4 keys, they keep the fifth for snagging.

Eventually you go into a room with the Notary, Bank, Polaris and your solicitor. There's a quick run through of the contract, bank, Polaris and Notary all happy and you sign a bit of paper and shake hands. 

This takes on average 3-4hours and with reqular slips in completion dates this is why the solicitor advised that so many sign over power of attourney. Tania was excellent company but would have found this wait awkward with someone not so friendly.

Again the message they gave is you are not presurised to sign but if you disagree not sure what happens next.

What now, 
- well been to the apartment and are waiting for confirmation snagging is complete to our satifaction. 
- Polaris are arranging for services to be installed, and expect 2 months. They do say you can use builders water/power if you wish to move in at day1.
- The apartments have central post office so I need to get Polaris to give me a key for my box. :( 
- Find out what ongoing community costs are.
- install aircon 2200euros is best deal so far for 3 units.
- shop at IKEA . p.s. Spanish IKEA catalog is identical layout to UK expect the words are Spanish. Take the UK catalog with you. 
- the IKEA is across from the new stadium which has a leroy king, (huge B&Q) and loads of other shops. If you fancier a quieter drive head south to Cartenge and on the junction with the AP7 is another large retail park with Carrefour (huge Tescos), Leroy King etc.

Hope you find the above useful, it is a complete brain dump of last week. We now need a holiday.

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Thanks so much, that was really informative. We have just recieved a phone call from polaris telling us we must complete at end of september and we don't have a clue so will take heed. Cheers 
Jay & Lisa

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Michaelrose,  Thanks for sharing all that information with us, it will be very useful.  I see you have taken your mortgage with CAM bank and I wondered if you could answer a couple of questions for me.  Are they the bank who have been financing Polaris World and how do I get in touch with them to discuss mortgage options?  I am buying a penthouse on Los Naranjos and although I don't have a completion date yet I am expecting one very soon as those around me seem to be getting phone calls just now.  Obviously the completions have come much earlier than we all expected and I am probably not the only one who is not prepared for this and is worried due to the financial situation in UK.  I was hoping to sell another property in Spain to finance this one but I have not been able to sell it yet (and also this has come early).  I am wondering whether taking out a mortgage in Spain may be a better option due to the bad exchange rate.  I am buying the property with 2 other people who have their finances sorted so would CAM bank need to take them into account or could I just have the mortgage in my name alone?  Apologies for rambling on but I'm hoping that you may be able to put my mind at rest about a few things.  Any information would be useful. 
Regards, Olive66

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MichaelRose:

I am very glad you made it so well.

Need to remark that it is clue to have a 100% independent solicitor and that sometimes, those recommended by the Estate agent are not.

Of course I am not saying that your solicitor in this case was not. 

Best,

Maria 

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Michaelrose - Only just noticed this and have to say thanks, it's very good - We're nearly there now, complete 3rd October on Los Naranjos - Olive66, I would think you have been contacted by PW by now but the banks that seem to be financing Los Naranjos are CajaMurca and BancoPopular, PW will let you know when they contact you with a completion day. - Just in case you don't know, I can't recall seeing your name there, but there is a forum for Condado de Alhama on EOS which is very good with loads of helpful advice - There is one for Los Naranjos too, but most people post on the main Condado site

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hI, sorry not got back sooner but made one post then lost the site URL :(

anyway, if it is still relevant.  

Went for the CAM mortgage as it was easiest option, things were getting tricky getting euro mortgage elsewhere and for the slightly higher rate 0.25% on some others I saw it wasn't really worth the hassle giving the start up fee;s. 0.25% may make a difference long term but I'm also not looking 25 years ahead as I expect to pay off by then.
For a CAM contact i will PM Sven's details, his english is fine and he's very helpful.
I didn't remortgage in the UK for two reason,
- rate had dropped so keen to keep my euro's exchange rate on the deposits high averaging around 1.48. If I do have to sell I take less of a risk of the exchange rate affecting me. i.e. I keep a high rate and have less money to convert back to £.
- don't wish to over stretch in the UK, if shit happens you don't wish to have to sell your own home.

If you are buying with two additional people don't think one person having a mortgage is advisable, if that person defaults the bank reposesses and the other two are stuffed. 

All the best to everyone.

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Hi Olive in answer to your question about the mortgage. While the Title Deed and the mortgage deed are separate items the mortgage will have to be in the names of all parties purchasing the property. Lets assume that of three people only one had the mortgage and then had financial problems and could not meet their monthly payments - if the bank has granted the mortgage to only one of the three it would prove hellish difficult to repossess the property. Thus all parties purchasing the property will have to be joint mortgage applicants, all will be responsible for the mortgage (despite the fact it may only be you paying it) and they will all have to provide financial disclosure and supporting documents proving income and liabilities.  

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Hi Smiley,

I have to disagree with you on that one!  I have, several times and in fact (am now) arranged mortgages where not all the purchasers are on the mortgage!   This includes, friends, realtives spouces.  So can agree the title deed and the mortgage deed are separate items, but it is possible for only one or some of the purchasers to be named on the mortgage!  Of course, I can see the implications but this is the situation as I know it and in my experience!  As an example I had a case where there were 5 people purchasing the property (all related) but only 3 of them were named on the mortgage, with the other 2 having paid cash!    At the moment I have a case going through where a husband and wife are the joint purchasers BUT the mortgage is soley in the wife's name as hubbys situation is complicated!

NB.   Now the end has come for the 50% LTV non status / self cert product; lender pulled it and I am past DIP and valuation stage!! (so furious!) but luckily I managed to get the client through on full status basis!!  Phew!!!!

        

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Hi Sharon no problem about the disagreement i am only stating what is the mortgage law. I am aware that some lenders will base it on the fact that if a property is being bought proportionally then they will simply assess the one borrower instead of all parties to the purchase - however the law as I understand it laid down by the BOS is that all parties to the Title Deed are supposed to be on the Mortgage Deed otherwise potential problems regarding repossession in the event of default. I think as more repos start to occur here lenders will find the condition is more rigidly enforced by the BOS. Its a little similar to the state that existed before the reminder of the directive sent out three years ago that the mortgage must not exceed purchase price - largely most lenders were ignoring it and basing the loan purely on value. When the BOS woke up to the fact of what was happening and some lenders were ignoring PP they sent out the directive again - still many lenders chose to disregard it - consequence being that many lenders now in schtuck with clients in similar scenarios to the following: borrowed 294,000€ (at 70% LTV) on a purchase price of 270,000 (for instance) based on a property value of 420,000. Hence they now all want to see purchase contract (unless you are finding different), proof of deposits and much more attention to price and declared price. Technically if there is more than one buyer they are all supposed to be on the mortgage deed according to three bank legal teams that I have spoken to about it - whether all the banks are following the directive is another matter. This is not a new thing and as I am sure you have experienced there are banks here that will simply not permit it and never have because it conflicts with BOS directives. 

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There are mortgagors who are not debtors: They put the guarantee but are not assusming any debt.

This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 10/1/2008.

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I know that Maria - we arrange mortgages with guarantors all the time. What Sharon is saying is that she has clients that are not mentioned on the mortgage deed but they are on the purchase deed - at least I think thats what she means.

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That's exactly what I was saying Smiley!!  I just thought you were saying in your post/reply to Olive that it was not possible!

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Those guarantoors/non debtors/owners are mentioned in the mortgage deed as "hipotecante no deudor". They need to actually sign the mortgage as an agreement of having their portion of the house also guaranteeing the mortgage loan granted to the debtor, who wil have to pay the monthly mortgage quotas.

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Thus they have to go on the mortgage deed as well - No?

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Correct

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Hi Smiley / Maria,  this is a great thread!  

I guess in a nut shell what I was trying to explain, literally in answer to Olives question 
I am buying the property with 2 other people who have their finances sorted so would CAM bank need to take them into account or could I just have the mortgage in my name alone?  is that not all the parties purchasing the property will have to be considered as a joint mortgage application. They are not included in the application and the mortgage account is only in the name of the persons applying for and taking the mortgage. They would not need to make any financial disclosure proving income and liabilities.  Hence the disagreement with Smiley!!     I am aware of the fact that those parties who are included in the purchasing but not the mortgage need to sign the Hipotecante no deudor (mortgage non debtor) but only in relation to their agreeing to a mortgage being assigned to the property.  Only the debtors have the responsibility to pay the mortgage;  the non debtors have no responsibility in regard to the mortgage (the security is the house).   If there is a default on the mortgage then the bank will look to the debtors only and they will be personally accountable whereas the non debtors are not personally accountable i.e. the bank will not come after them to use any other assets they may have.

So based on the above, my answer to Olive would be she can apply for the mortgage alone and the other 2 persons would sign the hipotecante no deudor!

I am no legal eagle but this is the extent of my understanding!!   I think we are now singing from the same song sheet!!!



   
  

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And in the event that the debt is not satisfied they can repossess the property as that is the overall security for the risk. While I agree with you in parts there are some lenders that will still want to see debt/income ratio for all parties on the purchase deed. Dont use them much these days but CAM have certainly operated this policy in the past - on more than one occasion. Loans were pretty big though so perhaps that was why.

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