Implications of Not Completing

Just Dan,
You misinterpret what I am saying. I am certainly not saying that it's OK for purchasers to abuse the situation, what I am saying is that if there is a contract drawn up by legal representatives that you put your faith in, and the developer was fully aware of abuse within that contract (I can't believe that they wouldn't be aware given the quantity of apartments/dwellings that they are dealing with ) then they should be ultimately accountable no matter what the market conditions. Where human nature comes in is that given a shift in market conditions, then if that abuse existed (which appears to be the case in all too many contracts), a developer cannot pick and choose which way he wants to play it. i.e. if the market is buoyant he chooses to repay the deposit and make a quick profit in the process by inflating the price to the next purchaser, or if the market is down then refuses to comply with return of deposits. It's a nonsense. I repeat the bottom line should be a legal contract devoid of any abuse..... and wherever abuse existed then the purchaser should retain the right to be recompensed.

What you fail to take on board is that many Brits have put their faith in Spanish legal representatives and developers and that faith has been consistently and  cynically abused, which is beyond defending. In Spain (whether you love it or not)  it now appears that they are in transition, getting their legal system in order (please God) but in the interim all these people are suffering as a consequence.
Surely this abuse is not in the interests of either the purchaser or seller............the difference being that it's only now that the seller is suddenly becoming aware of the sting in the tail.
Of course I feel for that developer you spoke of, but I also feel equally for the purchaser who has lost perhaps their life savings, and their dream to own a place in the sun.
Please to goodness this mess gets sorted ASAP and then the likes of you and I ( and hundreds, if not thousands of others) will not have to debate such issues and can focus our attention on regaining trust in the very country that you espouse to love so dearly.We should all be working together to make that happen, not working against one another.

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Too much detail to even read all the comments on this thread. How about lightening up a touch?

Just Dan, I, like you, are a victim of developers, but you need to move on.

I will send you an invite to my next anger management class. You need to relax, have a beer, and remember that the whole world isn't really against you. The last be may not be true, but you've gotta believe it anyway!

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Hi ad
Thank you very much for your reply . The sooner they do sort out this total farce of legal system the better and I happened to believe thats its agreements that stand in princible and in law. Fear that this may take along time as there indeed many Spanish that corruption is the way of live sadly this is quite a large sector (But not all )

Double J .Also thankyou for your responce and in the end the sooner this total farce is sorted then people may one day be able to trust the Spanish again.
Sectors of the market which we all know about have much to be ashamed of which has instilled  a commercially and dark cloud over them which may least for years.
Of course the profile case I mentioned is a ting fraction of the buyers lives that have been ruined and sadly even lives lost through the total stress of it all
The things I have witnessed  by some developers./ estate even to screw familes and freinds . Sadly many of the E.As that screwed their own were Brits in fact most where and they where as if not more guilty than the Spanish as many trusted them .THATS PLAIN SICK.

Fulford
Thank you also for your reply and am sorry that my profile of a situation that lives are being ruined on both sides albeit lots smaller by the seller, the total farce of this legal system really needs shaking at the core.
Move on.  Can assure yo I did that a while back as I can see rightfully so many many posters are so bitter that are trapped both mentally and financially in hell.
I am still alive and in reasonable health so perhaps I have found the foundation to brush meself off and move on.( still worry at times and my case may get to court in the next 10 years or so)
Move on  Thats what I have done and realise that there are two sides and dont use the forums just to show whats happened to poor ole me.
Move on  I use whatever I can salvage to put to use in any way wherever I can to help others that are struggling to cope and to avoid mistakes I and others have made.
Now again if this information we have all posted is to much for you to want to read. THEN DONT RULE ONE IN ANY MANAGEMENT COURSE,
1   IF SOMEONE PISSES YOU OFF THEN IGNORE THEM

Will have that beer lunchtime and off walking the dog on a lovely day.
Thanks for the offer of the management classes,hope you have made it to the end without falling asleep

Thanks All

Just Dan

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At least its only my money they took, not my health. That's why I've tried to move on, I don't want one to cause the other. I know which is the most important.
......................................that doesn't mean I don't want revenge........................

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Fulton
Thats better  Thats the concrete basis to work from

Trust me. I will never ever give up in fighting for what I am due.
Now agreeing to buy an X property and ending up with something thats nothing like it makes me SOooooo mad
However my resolve dosent let me at least try to take a peep over the wall.

Regards to you Thanks

Just Dan

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Hi

I have noticed that advice given to buyers that are not completing is starting to vary even to issues regarding L.F.Os
Now many solicitors have been advising clients in many cases to complete and wait for the licence or risk loosing the deposit for years.
Now as we know and has been stated many times  this is madness as no one can be made to or should complete without the paper work even if they have no Bank Guarantee.
Now as developers are starting to and will continue going into bankruptcy consumer groups are now starting say depending on the case completing on a completed property may be the prefered option so at least you have something tangible.
Now should someone complete on such a property and it was refused the licence and demolished then I assume compensation would be avaiable where those that have not completed and in particular without a guarantee would get nothing.
As we know L.F.Os in a massive amount of cases will be issued and I have noticed that even if you do have this licence it can be revoked and property can be demolished anyway.
Also it must be a dreadful sitution to find youself in if your are making stage payments and the builder is not building where I have read that you have to keep paying or you are in breach of contract and loose monies paid to date.
JUST WHO ARE WE TO LISTEN TOO? as the only ones that are not loosing are the Solicitors whoes advice seems to abide by laws but reality in many cases is that you are clearly going to loose.

Just Dan

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Why can't all those  purchasers affected come together in some way to put pressure on the government (via the EU??) to sort this mess out once and for all? It would be interesting to know from a legal perspective if this is an abuse of rights on a massive scale. But no-one appears to be brave enough  or dynamic enough to give us any answers on this score.....
If purchasers give into pressure by completing on valid cases of breach of contract (or without the offer of realistic compensation where appropriate) they are doing no-one, including themselves any favours. The abuse will just continue.
The other large scale abuse affecting purchaser's rights is the timescale taken before cases come to court (and even then the abuse continues by the developer going to appeal, which is a cynical ploy to extend the process even longer.) Estepona is particularly bad  and we have been led to believe that Estepona has the shameful record of being one of the slowest (if not the slowest) administration of justice in Spain. Why can't they be made accountable for this malpractice? WE NEED TO NAME AND SHAME! Ironically It appears to be causing as much frustration for certain lawyers who are diligently trying to go about their business. Again this does no favours for the Spanish economy as purchasers are understandably turning their backs on a beautiful country that is seen to be far too slow to put their house in order.
If good  lawyers are equally frustrated by this mal administration then we should throw down the gauntlet to them and say " DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT..... FIND WAYS (AT THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE LEVEL) OF GETTING YOUR LEGAL SYSTEM SORTED FOR EVERYONE'S SAKE"....... Surely the best legal minds in the country should be able to sort out this cancer within the Spanish legal system. Change should come from within  but unfortunately all too often the little change that does occur (for instance the recent suggestion for persuading developers to offer compensation)  is only a quick fix, and doesn't appear to be solving the route cause of abuse.
I say, DON'T JUST TAMPER WITH IT........... WE NEED SOMETHING RADICAL ACROSS THE BOARD..........AND QUICKLY. THE LONGER YOU DELAY ON THIS, THE MORE PAINFUL IT WILL BE FOR YOUR OWN ECONOMY.

Sorry for the rant folks.........

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ads
Totally agree and there are of course many wonderful  solicitors and judges who depair with the whole sorry affair
I feel you are correct that some sort of E.U intervention is the answer then the desperate options in my last post would not be necassary.

Just Dan

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Dear Ads:

We have commenced initiatives in a couple of occassions so people can send to us their experiences in order to bring them to the National Council of Lawyers and Ministry of Justice.

We are still gathering forms and need to say... not many have been sent to us.

Is it mayb ethgat we prefer complaining than acting?

Best Monday!

Maria

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Well done Maria......can you repeat then where people can get these forms from and where to send them to, and is it obvious from these forms what information you require?
Could Justin post something on a separate thread to highlight this and explain this to EOS members so that purchasers can know about this action please and how relevant it is to them?
Is there an end date when you need to collate this information together?
Maybe members don't realise how important this is to action some reform of the legal system. Maybe they think that there is a hidden agenda here or there is little hope, when in reality you are genuinely looking for their feedback to pass on to the National Council of Lawyers and the Ministry of Justice.
The profile of this really needs to be lifted and brought to the attention to all of those who are in the nightmare process of major delays and/or those suffering abuse within the Spanish legal system.

Thanks again.

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http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/503/a-report-to-the-ministry-of-justice.aspx

Here you have the link.

Looking forward to your feedback.

Maria

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Maria is this report just for those who have been misrepresented by lawyers, or is it intended to address the problem of lengthy timescales before cases are brought to court?
The problem re timescales is of equal importance and needs to be addressed.

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I am completely behind any initiative to highlight the problems which can be caused by lengthy timescales before cases are brought to court.  I am sure that many people are settling out of court with a less-than ideal result because they cannot wait for the laws which are meant to protect them to come into play.

It is up to people who have experience of this to try and help what will probably be cases of the future rather than their own, just as people in the past have helped  to  create the new laws and guidelines of today.  Now we need to make to sure they can be used effectively.

So let's not complain, let's do something about it.

However, what I would additionally like to say is that there should be some way to ensure that people are guided to a solicitor prior to signing.  If they wish to opt out and not seek the services of a solicitor, then fine, but they would need to sign a disclaimer.

One might say that any wise person would seek the services of a solicitor prior to signing and that is eminently true. 

But people also know that it is wise not to smoke cigarettes. But it doesn't stop a reminder appearing on a packet.

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Anything related to lawyers  and administration of Justice.

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For Maria's expert feedback please:
I am a Polarisworld customer and would like to know if I can get any of my money paid back please?
I was encouraged to transfer from Phase 2 of Terrazas de la Torre to a key ready apartment on Hacienda Riquelme. I have paid a 40% deposit on my original apartment and was sent a transfer document to sign to transfer to this new location and had my original contract cancelled. This is the only document that is currently signed. I have been sent a contract for the new property that is still unsigned by myself. Due to personal finance issues and the credit crunch I am no longer in a position to proceed. To make matters worse I was introduced by Parador Properties who are now in administration so I have lost my furniture package and 2 air-conditioning units they had promised me for the bedrooms. I have read the various blogs, in particular the one about The Consumer Act and being able to get at least 80% back and have contacted my solicitor quoting this, however I am told by my solicitor that because a Habitation Certificate has been issued and the property is key ready that this doesn't apply. Is this correct?
My solicitor says she will contact Polarisworld to see if they will allow me to transfer back across to Terrazas on the original contract and then I may have a chance of getting some money back. Is this the only way of dealing with this?
Lastly, if I simply leave the contract in front of me unsigned, what are the implications for me and both legally and financially what is the worst that can happen? (eg any further costs coming my way for maintenance issues etc even though I've told Polarisworld that I can't complete)
Many thanks

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Answers and comments below in bold green ( same text of your email):


For Maria's expert feedback please:
I am a Polarisworld customer and would like to know if I can get any of my money paid back please?
I was encouraged to transfer from Phase 2 of Terrazas de la Torre to a key ready apartment on Hacienda Riquelme. I have paid a 40% deposit on my original apartment and was sent a transfer document to sign to transfer to this new location and had my original contract cancelled. This is the only document that is currently signed. I have been sent a contract for the new property that is still unsigned by myself. Due to personal finance issues and the credit crunch I am no longer in a position to proceed. To make matters worse I was introduced by Parador Properties who are now in administration so I have lost my furniture package and 2 air-conditioning units they had promised me for the bedrooms. I have read the various blogs, in particular the one about The Consumer Act and being able to get at least 80% back and have contacted my solicitor quoting this, however I am told by my solicitor that because a Habitation Certificate has been issued and the property is key ready that this doesn't apply. Is this correct?
My solicitor says she will contact Polarisworld to see if they will allow me to transfer back across to Terrazas on the original contract and then I may have a chance of getting some money back. Is this the only way of dealing with this? I would need to see the contract that you signed, but if developer is in breach of contract : lack of license? is it what happen there? you are entitled to full refund plus legal interests.
Lastly, if I simply leave the contract in front of me unsigned, what are the implications for me and both legally and financially what is the worst that can happen? (eg any further costs coming my way for maintenance issues etc even though I've told Polarisworld that I can't complete)
If you signed for Phase 2 of Terrazas de la Torre and for whatever reason they cannot provide to you what  ypu are paying for , you are not obligued to transfer to other property/location if you do not want and  you might probably have rights for contract cancellation and full refund of all money paid plus legal interests, but... again, each case is different and I need to se the contract.
Many thanks

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Could anyone tell me the costs involved  when withdrawing from a purchase due to breach of contract? Our solicitor has informed us that an amicable resolution will cost 10,029,45 euro, if it goes to court this cost will double to 20,058,90 euro plus V AT. This seems to me that people are taking the Michael, am I write to be concerned?

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Lawyers have minimums stablished by their Law Societies and there is freedom of feeing.
The minimums stablished by Law Society come out of a scale which is applied to the amount you are claiming back.

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question for maria,

I have not yet completed on my purchase, but have paid 70%.  Some people have moved into the development, which is a block of 27 apartments.  I am on the ground floor as I am a single parent and both my younf son and I are disabled.  We were told that the front doors were made of reinforced steel and would be impossible to break into.  This weekend the people in the apartment next door to mine were burgled and their daughter held at knife-point.  The front doors that have been fitted are actually made of plastic, and the burglar kicked them once and the door flew open.

Would this be a reason for being able to cancel my contract as the doors are not fit for purpose?  I cannot risk the safety of my son.

Thank you

Alyson

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Some answers/comments below in bold green ( same text as your email):

 

question for maria,

I have not yet completed on my purchase, but have paid 70%.

Is there a First Occupation License in place? When was the completion deadline of the contract? Do you have a Bank Guarantee?

  Some people have moved into the development, which is a block of 27 apartments.  I am on the ground floor as I am a single parent and both my younf son and I are disabled.  We were told that the front doors were made of reinforced steel and would be impossible to break into.  This weekend the people in the apartment next door to mine were burgled and their daughter held at knife-point.  The front doors that have been fitted are actually made of plastic, and the burglar kicked them once and the door flew open.

Would this be a reason for being able to cancel my contract as the doors are not fit for purpose? That is not a sufficient cause for a refund, but.... is there a First Occupation License for your apartment?   I cannot risk the safety of my son.

Thank you

Alyson

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