PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION!

It's not as simple as that Just Dan as I'm referring to those who have been denied the right to a vaild BG (and all the ensuing rights that  should have followed on from this) from the outset according to their contract, and not for those who might require one in the future.

No, I'm still hoping that the whole aspect of BG abuse should be recognised within this petition.

Thanks Tish but Ruth said that the petition doesn't cover the circumstance where an invalid BG has been provided (i.e. where the insurance company providing the BG was not recognised in Spain) so your advice goes against her interpretation. Who is right here?

Ads,

Ruth is correct in as much as I now understand that your situatiopn is a "legal" problem. ( I'm sorry but I cannot remember where you bought . Did you have a "BG" issued by a Swiss insurance company?)

I spoke to Ruth this morning and she  briefly explained your situation to me as best she could. I don't want to complicate things so I am leaving it to Ruth to convey her thoughts on the matter. She is hoping to add something in her letter to the person she is sending the petition to, covering circumstances such as yours.

Dan,

Bank Guarantees are  legal and are a requirement  when buying off-plan. ( You should know that by now!)They are recognised in Spain, but are abused by the banks and seemingly ,the Judges. The fact that many do not have them is down to corrupt lawyers working with corrupt developers.

Tish

You posted

"Bank Guarantees are  legal and are a requirement  when buying off-plan. ( You should know that by now!)They are recognised in Spain, but are abused by the banks and seemingly ,the Judges. The fact that many do not have them is down to corrupt lawyers working with corrupt developer"

They are indeed required by law.

I thought the intention of the petition was the sole intention to bring about the legality and enforcement of this guarantee denied for the very reasons you have posted
 

At the moment they are worthless bits of paper with no meaning and little point in having one in many parts of Spain

Hear what youre saying adds and understand fully however a worthless bit of paper is just that

Just Dan

It's better to have a BG than not have one. It is a legal document. Without one, you are up the creak without a paddle. The point of Ruths petition is to bring the attenton to the fact that the banks are not honouring them.

Tish

To  Ruth,me and thousands of others at the moment its worthless bit of paper. (Not helping us much is it ?)

WE want that bit of paper to be worth what the law says its worth and well you know thats not the case.

I dont agree that all of those without one are up the creek without a paddle as well you know that there are those on the forums that have won without one. 

We totally support several and one in particular in his fight for justice and now you say he well screwed without much of a hope as they dont have guarantees .

I refer you to Ruths Petition and what her intentions are with regards to a simple question  YES or NO .As you say they are legal then lets start seeing the decisions and Banks paying out on them. ( YOUR WORDS The point of Ruths petition is to bring the attenton to the fact that the banks are not honouring them.)

Wht cant you just support this one issue as it was you that kindly posted it on the forums and now start going around  the roundabouts

Once and if we get courts to start ruling in favour of those with legal Bank Guarantees and Banks then paying out on them at least it may be the start of something.to work from.

Please everyone support the question in the Petition.

Just Dan

He who rides with doggies and hunts with the hares

I will attempt to recap the petition to the Governor of the Bank of Spain as questions have been asked about it by posters to this and other forums. 

The petition to the Governor of the Bank of Spain will be sent to him for one specific reason. He is the man who has some power within his domain to exercise authority over the banks of Spain. You can read on the Bank of Spain’s website that, under the Banking Discipline Law, he can apply pressure where he sees fit and in some cases he can impose sanctions. Examples are quoted.

My own complaint is that I was given a legitimate guarantee from a High Street Bank which this same bank will not now honour. The courts, through three hearings and a review, whilst at first supporting me have reversed the initial decision and found for the bank. My complaint then to the Governor of the BoS is about the misuse of the courts by the banks in order to hold on to deposits.

My guarantee was a straightforward clear document of insurance – there is nothing in it to quibble about. It says all the right things in all the right places. I should have been able to claim against the bank without a problem. I need not have gone to court; I need not have had to wait three and a half years; I could have used the money to buy a legal property somewhere else thus enabling Spain’s property market to continue to prosper.

The Governor of the BoS is not responsible for people not receiving bank guarantees. The fault there lies with the developer and/or your lawyer. I also think the agents can hold their hands up here, too. When selling properties they could advise clients to make sure that all the legalities are in place. They are the ones with the knowledge of the area and the property climate and could have been underlining the ‘Buyer Beware’ caution. Some did; some didn’t.

If people without guarantees want to make a complaint then they should write to the President of the CGPJ (Consejo General del Poder Judicial - The General Council of the Judiciary) or, if they wish, draw up a separate petition to go to him. Personally, I would do both.

Suzanne’s petition which she is taking to No 10 – Spanish Property Scandal Petition – covers all points and everyone with any kind of problem can sign up to that. She has done such a stalwart job and well deserves a sympathetic hearing from Gordon Brown followed by swift action from him for all of us. If our Government can bail out savers in English banks that go under then surely they should consider bailing out the hundreds of us who are losing big money in Spain through no fault of our own. But that’s my opinion.

Yes, there is strength in numbers but that was never an aim of this petition. It was designed to focus on one particular aspect of the problems surrounding BGs – one which could be addressed by the Governor of the BoS, so he says. I, together with all the signatories, are literally calling his bluff!

Once you have read the petition itself, and you feel that it applies to your case, and that you can support it by making your position very clear in the comments box, then please sign.

I intend these to be my last words on the subject matter of the petition and I do sincerely hope that the above answers some of your concerns.

Thank you for taking time to read this.
roots

Dan, I cannot understand your rambling post! I do support Ruth and everyone fighting the injustice in Spain.

Who has won their deposit monies back without having a BG?  Name names please.

I think people without BG's will have a  more difficult time unless they have an excellent lawyer that can prove negligence. ( A legal situation and entirely different from cases where people have legitimate claims using their BG.))

Ads asked if they could sign the petiton even though they have no BG. I thought they could, but  that was incorrect as Ruth  informed me that  the petition  really only covered people with problems( with off-plan )who had a BG.

Tish

Perhaps if you had read and understood what the petition was all about you may then have understood the ramblings.

I am as clear on this as Ruth where I think  the E.O.S team considered as a real nail on the head direct question directed at one person.

No ifs or buts should I have one or not.

Just a group of people that have a LEGAL  DOCUMENT in hand  and demand justice from the law of the land exactly as they have stated.must happen.

We all know that developers /solicitors have broken the law by not issuing bank guarantees but as bad as this is its a different issue and needs a diiferent approach

Your up the creek without a paddle seems to now be put in some sort of perspective and also you now understand that its a different  legal issue as to those with a legal legitimate claim using their B.G

Who has won without a B.G ?  How the hell I am supposed to know as I am having enough trouble finding ones that have been paid with one including myself.

You posted the petition and I would have thought you had the understanding of whats its about before hand and if you check its loosing its venom .by wishy washy comments often with no details and many that are way off track as you were regarding its intent.

SUPPORT THE PETITION AS PER RUTHS EXCELLENT STATEMENTS.  END OF

 Just Dan

Just another of your usual attacks on me Dan . I'm not responding to your stupid statements. You seem to have an opinion on everything. 

I posted about the Petition at Ruth's request as she was new to the forum and unsure of her way around...not that it is any of your business. Butt out!  Your posts are incoherent as many people on the EOS forum have remarked upon. I think you are  perhaps, trying to hijack Ruth's petition. Pathetic.

If you've got any questions, ask Ruth. 

Oh !by the way. What is this in plain English? Please explain.

I am as clear on this as Ruth where I think  the E.O.S team considered as a real nail on the head direct question directed at one person.

Tish

I have asked Ruth ,have offered my full support .You seem to understand my postings as your replying to them.

Some have sent me P/Ms as the Petition is loosing its way both here and the other Forum as R---- has just attempted to get back on track,(They seem to not have the same problems understanding me as the others you mention however I am sorry if like you they cant understand my resolve on issues that really matter)

Please do not go on the personal attack route as there is nothing in my postingsnonly point to facts on this very important issue and I am having non of that

YES ,You are right that I do have opinions on everything and I happen to think that this Petition is an execellent idea.

Why on earth would I consider Hi-Jacking  this Petition as this is one of the real questions that need to be put to the test in the interest of almost everyone with pending court cases including me.

Great you helped Ruth out with posting the petition and we all thank you for this .Can we now concentrate on getting maximum out of it and not side line with any tit tat postings.

 Telling me to butt out is a complete waste of time and energy better suited working together to give a united support..

Hopefully both forums are now back on track so lets try to make the maximum impact.

Regards

Just Dan

END OF TISH.  Lets move on.

Another statement by Dan:

I dont agree that all of those without one are up the creek without a paddle as well you know that there are those on the forums that have won without one. 

I certainly cannot remember hearing of anyone without a BG, having won their case and had their money repaid.  That's why I asked you who do YOU know that has?

You ask questions but never answer them.

 Please don't make out you are the spokesperson for other forum users either. .."WE thank you"!

TISH

People have won cases without guarantees and havent been paid thats a fact. People have won cases with guarantees and havent been paid and thats a fact.

Sorry I cant supply names and adresses however.

Please lets not to insulting my grammer. Look at yer last posting

  TISH .    HELLOooooo      .   PETITION  

Just Dan

Now can we get back to supporting it PLEEEaaaaaase.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/spanishbankguarantees.html

Tish

Thanks for that.

Just Dan

Blinkin' eck!

I haven't got anything to do with this thread, no comment to make, as nothing pertains to me..............

But Gordon Bennett!

What's happening here?

Why are members arguing if they have a common problem to solve?

Come on peeps, surely you are a "team"?

If you want the same solution to the Bank Guarantee problem.........................

Then sing from the same hymn sheet!

Sorry, rant over.........................

Fibby, that's what Just Dan does best!!!...upset people and threads on this and another forum.  As you can see, because I did not respond to him he has to come back two days later to try and provoke. He actually is trying to belittle Ruths petition and is playing games as usual. Fortunately people see through this.  Best to ignor him which is what I am doing. You just don't need "support" from people like him.

Regardless of his put down the petition is going well.

Oh well Tish, there is always "one" eh!

Good luck with the petition.

Sorry Guys+ Gals

Just thought it was going off way off course and feel that this is a very important issue.

Fibby 100 % are we supposed to be a team and from day one I have supported this Petition on both forums 100% and proud to do so.

Will tone it down but really do feel that that a great opportunity is being allowed to be taken off course and perhaps a little frustrated.

Just Dan   

Hi

It seems clear from the number of postings that those without a Bank Guarantee are posting at an alarming rate,far higher than I for one would have appreciated and indeed something that sadly reflects just the horror of the whole sorry saga.

If its not bad enough that the guarantees are proving worthless surely the fact that one is not in place which is the law is something that the legal sector should be made accountable.

Dose the legal sector carry any legal insurance as in the U.K ?

I can identify around 20 to 25 of posters with guarantees who have put their names and their actual postition relating directly to this Petition and around 5 or 6 out of these from one development being Santa Maria Green Hills.

Now with thousands upon thousands of people with valid bank guarantess which are not being honoured surely support can rallied from other developments to add weight to the whole issue.

Would be great to have more that will give names and valid comments regarding issues relating to the abuse of Bank Guarantees that have been issued and anonymous postings while welcome carry little weight .( in my opinion)

Thanks for the support for my efforts on other threads and as Fibby pointed out we are or should be on the same side and support is welcome from all  regarding this Petition and surely not down to any one person to say who is or not.welcome.

Just Dan