Getting Older in Spain

Hi all

I hope you can help me with some general info?

We are considering moving to Spain full time when we take early retirement (about 7 years time).  We know and have heard of the many benefits of retiring to Spain, and even with the (almost) parity with the euro, I feel we will still have a better standard of living and quality of life (even if not as rich as when we were getting 1.47 to the pound!)

My question is - what happens when you get old?  By old I mean 80 yrs plus, or when you health starts to decline.  Do most ex-pats return home to Blighty at that point, to be near family?  I have been trying to research retirement homes in Spain, but mainly get info on the private end of the market.   All well and good if you still have the funds, but once you have bought the apartment, the monthly service charges seem quite high.  Is there any entitlement to Spanish care homes?  If you have sold up in the UK to move lock stock to Spain (or any other country come to that) what do you do?

This is years away for us, but I need to ensure that we can afford /be able to keep ourselves to the end, rather than be forced to return to the UK old and penniless! 

Sorry to be so depressingly practical

Tracey

Do not know ...perhaps time for some research!

But to date the help for the aged is not as far as I know as advanced as it is in UK...the Spanish are still more family orientated than we are in UK.....but they are getting more like us!

I expect, as I am getting older too[!] that EU regulations will eventually dictate that all EU states must have the same provision...so it should  get better

If you are retired and a resident of Spain I understand that you are treated the same and have the same rights as a retired Spanish person....health care is they say better than UK 

Some can get cheap holidays on the costas off season!!!

There are some 'retirement developments about' but in general not cheap

But if you go to Spain say full time at 65 and become a resident....... then come back full time to UK at say 80 .......then when you come back to UK as a  resident you will still be entitled to the UK benefits.....and you have had 15 years in the sun!!!

Mobile retirement perhaps!!...including the winter fuel payment!!! 

However, if this is a matter that concerns anyone then they do need to look in to the situation ' in detail'...........not everyone wants to take a risk at retirement  

A safe option is. if you can afford it, is to have a small property in Spain [ quite cheap just now] and keep a small property in Uk which you let out...just in case you want to come back to UK [ when 80!]

In Spain for most of the time it is outdoor living so you do not need as much indoor space as you do in UK

Just a thought!.....time for some research on this subject!

Thanks for the quick response Rowlandsbb.

We are hoping to keep a property in the UK, but as I work in the retirement industry in the UK (social housing) it is something I am professionally seeing more of.  Ex-pats returning from overseas in their late 70's early 80's (some from Spain but getting a growing influx from South Africa) who have come to the age where they can no longer cope on their own and so return to be near family and to get help with social care (rather than health).  they find that their overseas property does not buy them anything in the UK (if they can sell it) and so they end up on the waiting list for social housing (many for the first time in their lives)

As you say, perhaps it is better to have 15 years or so having fun in the sun and worry about that side later. 

tracey

Hi Alan & Tracey

You certainly believe in forward planning!  Very wise, of course.  I must admit that when we first thought about moving to Spain, our only concerns were that we would be near a health centre, and with good public transport  facilities if we had to go to hospital!  We moved here in June last year, and I have already registered with the local health centre as I am 61, but John is waiting until he is 65 in March.

We know a couple who live just outside Jumilla, and they certainly appreciate the healthcare here, as Charles has already had two hip replacements since he turned 65!  They have nothing but praise for the Spanish healthcare system.

Have you read the following on Maria's blog? http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/981/legal-tip-11-dependence-act-elderly-and-handicapped.aspx.  Basically, once you have been a resident in Spain for 5 years, you will be entitled to the same care as Spanish pensioners, such as home help etc.  This emphasises the importance of getting your residencia - I know some ex-pats don't bother, but I am sure you intend doing so anyway.

I believe pensioners are entitled to free bus travel in some areas (that doesn't seem to apply here), and you can buy a Tarjeta Dorada for train travel once you are over 60, which gives discounts between 25% and 40% with Renfe for 5 euros a year.  Some museums which charge for admission give free entry to pensioners, or reduced admission charges.

As already mentioned, the best things about living in Spain are the weather (even though it is very cold in Jumilla today), the relaxed attitude and the very friendly people.

Hi Sue

thanks for the response.  We know Jumilla as we were buying on SADM too (that's for another thread!!)

I know it seems like taking forward planning to the extreme (especially as we are both still in our forties) but I just need to be sure that before we buy a one way ticket to Spain, we know it will be a home for life.  As mentioned, I work in the retirement industry in UK, and although Healthcare is great in Spain, I had heard that after care and home care is behind the UK, as Spain is still a family orientated country.  This is usually a great thing, but if you move abroad and away from your family, then you don't have the family support.

Anyway thanks for the response, especially about the homecare etc

Tracey

as I am getting older, your concerns interest me. I have another three and a half years before I retire and I am somewhat in the same dilema. But, am I right in saying that once you have left the UK for a number of years you can not return and get strait back into the system and may have to pay for health care etc?

Some friends of ours who are Spanish residents have just returned to the UK for financial reasons. They have now been back 2 months, are in the process of reverting their spanish residense. They have been given a council house, she has been given all her disablement  benefits back, and he is on the sick, getting payed, and due to go into hospital for a minor operation in a couple of weeks. All their benefits have been backdated to the day that they returned to the UK. I was under the impression you could not claim for a certain ammount of time, but obviously you can!!!!

I have just gone onto the costa blanca news page, and on the right hand column there is a link to health and care guide.  It covers health care, benefits, residencia, tax matters, car info etc.  I found it very informative

tracey

All EU citizens are entitled to NHS care in the UK so don't worry about not getting treated if you return to UK.  Read the recent papers about Greeks and Cypriots receiving transplants on the NHS.

Suemac:

If you and John are married there is no need for him to wait till he is 65 to get into the Spanish Health Service - he can get an E121 based on yours as you are over 60.   To get it you just have to contact Newcastle.  If you go this route you need to remember to take your marriage cert with you when you go to register as they do not mention this with the stuff they send from UK.

We only go over for 2 to 3 months at  time, but we applied for the Spanish SIP card from our medical centre in the village it lasts for 3 months at a time, so all I do is renew it every time we go out.  So that covers us while we are in Spain.  

              You do have to be women over 60 and men 65.   Hope this helps

                                  Pat

I think there was a very long thread about health care entitlements early last year but can't find it.

The essence is this:  autonomous regions are entitled to be more generous than the national law allows when it comes to health care for foreigners who are members of another EU state

As a general rule, the EHIC will get you emergency care as a non-resident. Whether they give you more than this is up to them.

In Andalucia you get the  minimum as a resident:  nothing at all until you are of pensionable age (65 for men, 60 for women but rising for women with pensionable age, starting next year) - so you have to make private provision. When you get your E121 you can go into the system and the first person within a marriage to reach pensionable age can get an E121 for their spouse as well.

In the Valencian Community it is much  more generous but the  Regional government's intention that everyone from the EU gets a card regardless of age is patchily applied depending on exactly where you are and in some areas people have had trouble getting it.  If you are in the VC, Pat, it would appear that you don't even have to be resident to get a SIP card provide that you are of pensionable age.

I am not absolutely sure about Murcia but I think it is more generous than Andalucia.

Unfortunately John and I aren't married, though we are trying to find out the (cheapest!) way to marry in Spain, as it may be advisable to be married once we have bought our house and have made Spanish wills.

I don't know whether Murcia is better than other regions, though we do know a couple who are retired and say the health system here is wonderful!  The good news is that they are building a new health centre near our new home, so at least if we need to use it we won't have far to go!  All John needs to do is stay reasonable healthy until March, though he has a very bad cold and cough at the moment, which isn't a good sign........

Incidentally, I read the health guide that Tracey mentioned, and noticed that the sequence they give isn't the same as the sequence here in Murcia.  Admittedly we got our NIE numbers a couple of years ago, before we moved here, however we only registered for the Padron in August last year.  We went to the local townhall with our NIE numbers, passports and proof of address (our rental contract ,as the bills aren't in our names).  Once we had our Padron certificates, I took mine along with my E121 to the INSS office to register for healthcare, and then took the form they gave me to the local health centre.  Finally, we both went to Murcia in October to get our residencia certificates.

Sue

Hi Sue

Based on the recent experience of wo lots of friends you may find the simplest and cheapest way to get married is to do it in Gibraltar - good luck!

You don´t have to get married but get yourself registered as parejas de hecho - ie formally living together.  Your local town hall can do this with you and it has to go off to Seviulle to be rubber stamped.  In Andalucia and I believe Murcia official co-habiting offers same rights as marriage on almost everything, certainly the important things like inheritance tax........

Note to Jane b and anybody else regarding your Marriage Certificate.

The following MAY only apply if one or the other spouse is not from the EEC but I think worthwhile information.

Attempting to renew our NIE cards, as we all now know, Brits. relinquish their cards, (they clip the corner off) in favour of an A4 sheet of paper, stating residencia details and need to show thir passport as ID.

However, we also discovered that while our Marriage Certificate was totally acceptable for the five years we have lived in Spain, permanently to date, now, because of the new Brussels jobsworthies, it has to have an Apostille attached, to be recognised as official and legal in Spain and possibly in other countries? It also had to be translated to Spanish then franked by an official translator and five originals supplied.

An Apostille (an embossing to the front and paper statement attached to the reverse applied by  the Foreign and Commonwealth Office) can only be applied in the country of origen of the document.

This together with a combined husband and wife Padron and bank statements showing our pensions income.

I feel I have lost a bit of my "Spanishness". I was proud of my Extranjero card.

In the five years we have lived in Spain, where we moved mainly for health reasons, I have needed to use the medical facilities here, quite a lot.

They are absolutely superb! I am always treated as if I was the only patient they had.

Twice, I needed to spend some days in hospital. What an eye opener to see the wives coming into the wards in the evening, then converting the armchairs to recliners, to spend the night there, tending to their man´s minor needs. Of course there is a nurse there as well, it just helps to lighten the load.

As a final point, while it was necessary for us to return to England last September, for a week or so, I certainly have no wish whatsoever to live back there again, whatever happens! I am proud to be English, however, I have grown over the five years here to become very "attached" to my new country. What a boon to use the Autovias without having to plan the time there will be no tailbacks. How lovely to sit at the many parasol covered cafeterias and watch the world go by.

When my time comes, (I have made all the necessary provisions) I have asked that my ashes be placed in a Jack Daniel´s whiskey bottle without the top on and be cast into the beautiful Mar Menor lagoon. Never had a head for heights anyway! 

Oh dear, Pilgrim.  I hope I don't need to go to all that bother with  my marriage cert to have it recognised.  I have been putting off getting a Spanish driving licence because my UK one is in my married name and ALL my Spanish docs and my PASSPORT just happen to be in my maiden name. I realise that in ten years time, when my licence expires, it is possible that I may not even be in Spain but I would like to be technically correct with it and was thinking of throwing myself on the  mercy of the system to see if I could get it changed.

When we went with our E121s I took my marriage cert and pointed out to the lady that the E121 was in my married name and my residencia in my maiden name she just shrugged, said OK and put the health card in my residencia name - didn't even seem interested in the cert.   However friends who I helped to do their health cards last month, and who do have the same name, were asked for their marriage certificate. They had not thought to bring it and she let them have their health cards anyway!

Hint regarding the useless new 'residence certificates':  if you have one of the old ones, do  a photocopy of both sides, get it laminated and keep it in your wallet for use as ID for credit cards etc when it runs out - you can hardly tel the difference and no one checks the date.  In fact it is not a bad idea to do it anyway and carry the copy rather than the original in case of theft.