we're giving the UK the fingers up.Selling UK property before UK goes to the dogs

Happy New Year All,

We have just put our UK property on the market. No longer do we want to be tied to a property that has bedrooms empty that we still have to clean, look after a tiny squarer than square piece of grass, support our bone idol kids - who seem to think the Bank of Mum & Dad & Our Assets is/are a reason not to get a job or a starter home/flat - shared ownership,mortgage or rented.

Well we've had enough, the further talks on more interest cuts to eventually hit 0% and the announced Banking rescue has failed was the last straw.

Today is the day where we put our needs first above our disappointing kids we cant seem to shake off, and gave everything UK the finger.

After talking to lots of people (approx 82) who have bought abroad (not neccessarily Spain) they (68) have since mid 08 also taken the view that only those in denial will hang on to a UK property now and the wiser will jump ship for good. Since speaking to them again that 68 has gone up by 11 more in Nov 08.

SO everyone, we ARE NOT STAYING IN THE UK ANY MORE. We have signed on the dottedline to say Hello Spain Goodbye Britian & all Problems British. We have had 4 (amazing-never thought it would happen) viewings and we haven't even read the draft particulars yet. Our Agent said buyers are looking for new instructions as they are marketed at todays price and we have the advantage we have put it on the market before the "spring new instructions" usually takes effect. So we are very hopefull that acting now will get our uk property sold faster than expected.

What else can I say other than :if you own a property in Spain and one in the UK, you'd be raving bonkers not to sell up in the Uk before more property price drops. You bought in spain for a reason - so why are you not out there 100% - why stay in the depressing downward spiralling UK - well unless you are rich enough and happy to watch your assets/investments continue to plummit :(

I stand by our decision : Give the UK the elbow, sell UK property before it becomes a negative noose, kick your spineless hanger on kids out, and move to Spain for good. Yes Spain has some problems, but they dont look so bad when you're drinking that coffee while watching the sun rise. The UK however : Waste of time, it lost the right to call itself 'Great Britain' years ago.

gravitatingsouth

.......please tell me this is a wind up!

gravitatingsouth,

What a depressing post from you.

Do your children know how you really feel about them?

Anyway good luck to you for the future.

Gravitatingsouth, all the best to you - and all the more so about being honest about your thoughts!!

Goodstitch and Impey why would you - respectively - think this is a wind-up or a depressing post??

I haven't lived in the UK for many, many years - and I'm one of many hundreds of thousands at least - and wouldn't even consider moving back there!  So why are you so astonished that someone actually says "get out of here" when many others have done so already and don't regret their decision for a minute!

And Impey, no disrespect, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you don't know gravitatingsouth's family circumstances and really can't comment on his/her personal situation with their children!  Personally, if my son was twenty years old and still living off the thought of his inheritence then I would be quite ashamed of how I had brought him up!!

But then each to their own and that's what I'm saying - we're not in a position to make "personal" comments regarding someone else's decision.

 Gravitating south.

Cracking post.....it made me chuckle but oh so true....

Good luck with your adventure...

hya g44

wish it was a wind up, but no,we're off, we have decided enough is enough, the Uk aint the place it was nor the place we want to be in anymore. we have seen several older people near to us forced to sell last year as their pensions and savings have dwindled to nothing. another families endowment fall so short they have had to take out a further mortgage and the husband has 2 jobs - tragic to see and hear.

which is why we have made the decision its time to look after ourselves our equity our savings before they get sucked away into nothing. i guess you're too young to know about times when gates were removed from properties to be melted down in the war - and the owners never got a penny for gates. Well savers interest (lack of it etc) kinda looks like the same principle to me= just a different asset.

anyway, long and short of it is, we have if'd and r'd about it for a while so we went to a few shows re property in uk and overseas, and spoke to lots of people as i guess everyone is keen to learn from others and share good and bad expereinces/info/knowledge etc. and yes those we spoke to were already ahead of us by several months and on the way out of the uk for good. we spoke to someone in mucia who was a uk property specalator and he had sold all of his uk buy to lets and was buying in spain - to live in one and buy and hang onto the other 4 villas to let out via a villa holiday company he knew. He was in a different league to us, but he did share his knowledge with us as well as his reasons, not everything applied to us mere morsals but any knowledge today is a bonus as you never know when you need to call on it.

so in answer to our question:is this a wind up?

No its not, we are simply taking what we have now and are moving to spain and then keeping what we have previously  invested in- Cyprus & Turkey region  - where it is for now  - for holiday rentals - which is where people are supposedly going to be going on holiday in 09 etc due to being out of the euro zone. we shall see if that off the back burner tip proves fruitful.

But yes, after xmas we had a good sit down with the kids and told them its about time they got to grips with their own lives, and stepped out of the electronic game world, looked  at getting jobs that lasted more than 2 months and standing on their own feet eg : if the relationship you've been in for 18months/2yrs is worth something - then stop using the family home as a 'shag-pad' and enter into proper commitments like getting your own place or renting somewhere independantly. I think my other half was fed up of having people swagger down for breakfast about 11.30/12 then go back to bed until 1pm, getting up after a matinee session before dossing around before hitting the clubs again. Yes you love your kids, but for how long do you keep thowing money at them when really they need to grow up ? Well the answer is in this economic climate, when they cant be bothered to fall in line and work to keep a job let alone work persay.

oh for a crystal ball, what hearache it could have saved. and to think we've been taxed since we became part of the work force in the 1960's.

so yes we're off, we dont want to take any chances that what we own will drop further in value and our savings earn a piddly %.

like a lot of older people we were brought up to 'never a borrower b' to save for the future etc, and we soon will be heading in the direction of the people i referred to at the top of this if we stay here any longer and allow the government to control the assets which are ours not theirs.when this country gets into trillions of debt and start thinking of printing money  -that is real bad news - and we want to be out of here asap.

Home is where the heart is not where the bricks and mortar are. If we want to come back to the uk later we can do, but property will have dropped even more then so we will be buying when it is even lower than we will be selling for now. Sad I know, but life is all  about survival and learning today for tomorrow. What we have learnt is : whats good for the goose isnt always good for the gander, its about personal choice, and we choose to opt out of  the UK, and to be frank its still a lot easier to sell a uk property than it is a foreign one, so we might as well stay in the foreign one we have now aquired as its a dam site cheaper to own/run as is living in spain.

Even better the second time round!

Only the best to you gravitatingsouth!!

I am not offended by Impey comments ok   i love my kids, would take a bullet for them (drastic comment but you know what i mean) but they are so bone idol even though we as parents have run our own business before selling it off, done a self build home and alot more over the years we have been married - shant bore you but we have worked for every penny we have, and i mean graft and sacrifice.

the kids, all graduates, one with a phd the other a masters  - all funded by us, no student loans etc - and all have new cars (bought for by my far too generous wife for their 21st) and cant handle getting up and going to work because its dark at 7am and they dont like to get up unless its natural light outside. HELLO maybe you should all move to the equator then, plenty of sun there so maybe there'll be a few job openings starting at 5am in the SUN!

I wish.!   So yes they are never going to become independant unil my gracious wife cuts their purse strings, and she wont do that, just like she wont go out in dirty underwear incase its the last memory someone has of her if she falls down a "paid for by poll tax crater " in the middle of the road.

As for the other tacktful rude reference as they are all boys, well what can I say : If I were to have had a condom machine fitted in the bathroom, I'dnow be like Ebaneeza scrouge - counting the coppers as they regularly drop into the collection box at the bottom. Yes I should be pleased they are responsible and in fairly sound relationships, but have they ever for once thought to stuff their socks in their mouths if they can't control their vocal enthusiasm !

Yes I guess they think they're playboys, but even stringfelloe has to earn his money to live like this. HELP

:)) Great stuff! 

Gravitatingsouth, I hope you didn't think I was referring to your kids as "all boys" when I mentioned my own son!  I actually meant "my own son", I have only one son!  I wasn't referring to yours!!  (Sorry, but read back through the posts and thought you might be referring to my remark!).

You obviously know exactly what you are doing and enjoy!!  I'd be there with you in a minute (well, not with you, but metaphorically speaking!!!). 

pitby

no worries,never even crossed my mind.

just hope they dont decide to buy me a poodle and call it snowflake - like on that tv ad - where they - parents -go off to australia and the son is left behind yapping on about inheritence.

gravitatingsouth

thanks for your long reply. I really wish you all the best, and as is often said, we all entitled our own opinion.

The reason i believed your post was a wind up, was because in my opinion it smacks of 'the grass is greener' in the extreme. You must know what a mess Spain is in, due mainly to their corruption/lack of regulation/justice etc etc. (protest march tomorrow on this very issue) Of course there are many happy people there, and many great things about Spain, but to think you can go to Spain and leave your troubles behind, without having a lot of new one's to face, seems very unlikely to me.

The UK certainly has its faults, but heavens above, so does Spain!.  I don't blame anyone for trying to improve their lot, but to think Spain (especially in it's current situation), will be the answer to your prayers, takes an enormous leap of faith to me. I wouldn't be suprised if the financial situation in Spain in year or two will make the UK look like paradise?. I think the sh*t has barely started to hit the fan yet?

Anyway, all the best. I realise we have very different feelings and opinions, and as long as we can voice opinion without resorting to insult, then i reckon we are doing ok.

Amusing thread. Thanks for making us all smile, Gravitatingsouth!

If it isn't a wind up, then it certainly seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction - perhaps the lads really got to you over the festive period and something snapped? All I can say is, the grass isn't always as green on the other side as it at first appears. A lot of the problems that people grumble about in the UK are not unique to the UK. if you think the Spanish property market is more robust than the UK's, think again. If you think the economic pressures facing the UK do not apply to Spain, think again. And although it hasn't developed yet, there's another thread started today titled "getting old in Spain". It should prove a very interesting one. My advice, for what it's worth, would be to not burn your bridges too hastily. You'd be surprised how many of your 68+11 end up returning to the UK eventually.

Editted, to say that if nothing else, this post has finally found me and Goodstich agreeing on something 100%!

gravitatingsouth I wish you all the best with your plans to move to Spain but surely you don't have to do anything so drastic as to move to make your kids get on with their own lives ?Can't they all just move out and get a place together? Give them a month notice and tell them that it is time they got independant. I would be worried that they might follow me out to Spain Nevertheless, like I said before, good luck with your plans. Hope you fulfill your dream soon.

Susan

streuth, follow me out to spain, theres a thought, if they did theyd have to sleep in a tent, still thats another thought.

no its not a rushed decision, we were going to go to costa de la luz, infact we were 100% sure we would, but we decided not to simply as we would have had tokeep going via faro which seemed daft as we may have just had stayed in portugal, tho cant lie when i say had everything been right Luz would have been our first choice.

sorry some of you think this was a wind up, but as its the new year, we decided its now or never, lets stop pussyfooting around after talking to so many people that did 'bite the bullet' and havent looked back since.

we know spain has problems, and to be honest the only real problem that might cause worry is the whole health care thing, we are still looking into that as a resident/x pat. but for now we still have our worldwide private plan/bupa so will be covered with that for a good while yet.though we had thought huuelva in luz would have been perfect. just other things not quite right.

yes it is a drastic move, but we have become so upset with the uk we feel we dont fit in here anymore, its that simple. my other half is in finance and has become so upset having to turn peopleout of their homes due to mortgage troubles/repossesions, its got to the point that the only peace of mind available was to resign. Though now there is this deferred option etc, it does not resolve the mental anguish of a resposseeion on a friday with one family only to have the next family on the list able to remain coz policies changed. The change is good, but coming to terms with the family out on the street the week before which was your doing due to corporate rules has detrimental effects on the conscience.

that aside, we have decided to make a clean break, we have seen £thousands drop on propertry near us, and the amounts are unjust, especially when you now see those repossessed being snapped up by people who would normally never be able to buy in the area - and like i said the family that was once there now in a local  b&b still having to pay the difference between repossession value and their purchase mortgage. Its wrong, whoever is to blame its all wrong.one cannot imagine how the family in b&b must feel walking past their home to the local school knowing one week later they could still be there and applying for deferred mortgage int.

so yes it maybe a knee jerk choice, but like i said its now or never, we've been dwelling long enough. Going to spain not needing any financial help, choosing what we wanted and helping somone sell a holiday home they want to get from around their shoulders due to finance presssure means we are benefiting as is the seller.

i have taken your comments  on board,i know you all mean well, all i can say, my points werenot a wind up, we just wanted to say : yeh spain has its bad points, but when you no longer feel that sigh of patriotic relief when your plane touches down on english soil, well then you know its time for you to make your home somewhere else.

dont worry before we sign on the legalities, which we wont do until we are sold in the uk, we will be renting in the area on a like for like basis.we went out late 08 and arranged a rental, and will be going back end jan, we had already been to the area on previous rental with friends so we arent just in the holiday set mind.

i hope that explains it a bit better. though to be frank my kids are the worry, but this way they will have to start sorting themselves out asap. yes they can come with us, but only if they can get work etc sorted, the holiday period is about to end for them and the new experience will not include free spanish sangria !

just watched the bill tonight and some bird killed her kids (well nearly). perhaps that is your answer

Dear All,

great post, lots of home truths in the post and in the replies, you have worked hard and done well, now enjoy it as you will, even if that means some mistakes, perhaps.

Even the best off-spring take parents for granted if allowed.

Act together and bring them down to earth as planned, you will very likely be surprised and proud of them in the future, once they get the hang of it.

It really is essential that you are together and you do not come between a woman and her children, that is a fool's game.

I personally don't think you have got the property values balanced correctly but you are approaching matters with caution and care, so you will succeed.

It is truly sickening to see families re-possessed unnecessarily, with all the immense distress and problems that brings, when a fraction of the full cost to society could be used to assist them to retain their position. That really must change it just is not civilised let alone just.

The very best of luck to you and fingers crossed.

Regards

Norman

Gravitatingsouth

I think that I may have tried the "moving to a one bedroomed bungalow trick" first - that would certainly give your kids a large hint!!  They're certainly old enough to stand on their own feet.

I didn't have the same problems as you - both of mine wanted move out at the age of 18 - one to the halls of residence (she now has a PhD) and the other to her own house.  And, yes I've still on very good terms with them - but it's great all round to have your own space.

Best of luck with your plans.

I agree with what has previously been said about repossessions.  There are so many people who have lost their jobs - and unfortunately it looks as if there will be a lot more to follow.  It doesn't take much to get behind with the mortgage etc - and once someone is in that position  it's darned difficult to get back on one's feet.

Hi gravitatingsouth, some of what you've said has made me chuckle (shag-pad etc) but most of it really comes across like others have said, bit of a 'knee jerk' reaction and it seems to me your view of the UK market versus spanish market is completely misguided. No offence intended mate honestly and I hope you get the best of whatever it is you're trying to achieve..but -

1.  You say you've previously bought in Turkey & Cyprus but then mention holiday rentals will "supposedly" pickup in the future. You referred to these as an "investment" so you're now either making a profitable yield out of them or else you're not. Seems to me a more logical option might be to "chill out" at either of these locations until you have the proceeds from sale of uk property in your sky rocket..

2.  Uk house prices are down 16.2% over the past year (Halifax stats), so if we assume they continued to fall at the same rate over the next 12 months (which I doubt), we could guess you'll get 32% less for your house than you thought you might last year. So to use £100k as a benchmark you'll get say £68k. You stated you are going to Spain to rent initially which is definitely a more sensible option than going out to buy with say an agent in the current market. Regardless of whichever type of property you search for in spain, I can say with some confidence that it's value will almost certainly have fallen MORE than it's UK counterpart over the same period (far more than 32% in the case of any new build property). This means it's probably not the worst time to buy in spain right now, but I'd hazard a guess it'll get a lot better in a years time (by which time prices will have fallen much lower in spain than in the UK). It's still possible to purchase a Buy to Let investment in the UK (today) and make a decent net profit out of it. It's not been possible to do this in spain now for at least the last 5 years (with the exception of certain luxury properties on rolling lets). As you so rightly say "home is where the heart is" so if you're buying a place to live in because you love it then it's value is almost incidental. I'm only making these points as I think your view of the uk market is at best 'half-cocked' and at worst likely to lead you to make a poor financial judgement. 

3.  You were "100% certain" on the Costa de la Luz, and you've been to a few property exhibitions and "spoke to lots of people" including the bloke who sold up his UK BTL's in exchange for presumably a more lucrative investment in spain. If those UK BTL's were good investments he'd have probably bought them prior to 2000 and  would have been enjoying 10%+ yields ever since, unless he remortgaged and sucked out equity afterwards or else bought too late so they weren't actually such good investments after all. TIP - don't believe everything you hear. Be like a hoover, take it all in but don't neccesarily believe it. 

4.  I can see where you're coming from about the kids (even though they're not kids any more)..but it's not from the ground they got it. New cars at 21 oh dear, that's not Gordon Browns fault is it?

You sound like you've got a good sense of humour so hopefully will accept this in the spirit it's meant.  At your time of life I honestly don't see the sense in burning your bridges when you have family in UK. In a few years you might have grandchildren and worse case scenario either you or the other half could be pushing up daisies meaning one of you might just need to return home.. as that's where the heart is.

Best of luck anyway whatever you decide, just remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

ps - if by any small chance your uk property is in Birmingham feel free to pm me for another option.

Before the UK goes to the dogs!!!!!

I think it's already gone and I don't blame you for leaving. We are doing the same this year hopefully. The only difference being we want our kids to move over with us or to at least leave the UK but they won't.