we're giving the UK the fingers up.Selling UK property before UK goes to the dogs

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I intend to relocate to Spain in the near future.  My reasons have been well documented but it all boils down to the fact that I enjoy the way of life there.

However, I do get a little upset with all the gloom and doom of UK.  The UK has probably given most people on here the chance to earn enough money to either buy a holiday home in another country (on this board, Spain obviously) or live out their retirement there.  But don't forget just how good you have actually had it and how difficult it would be to do any of this if you were the citizen of many of the countries in the world.

You have had electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week,

95% of you have had jobs

You walk into Tescos, Sainsburys or wherever and see more food in one day than people in some countries see in an entire lifetime

In the unfortunate case of your house catching fire, a group of trained firefighters will turn up and save you, your family and your property.

You have thousands of restaurants serving world class cuisine available with more choices than you could even count

You are probably one of the 75% of British people who own their own homes,  This will probably be in an area that does not have constant air strikes, bombs or militia on the rampage looting and raping the citizens.  (with acknowledgements to David Letterman)

If you get ill or are in a car accident, you will taken to a hospital for excellent treatment by a group of dedicated professionals.

And many, many more things to be grateful for like the right to practice your own religion or way of life without persecution.

So, count your blessings, folks.  I know us Brits make it a habit to become some of the most spoiled, whinging people on earth and seem to relish telling everyone how badly off we all are.  But the truth of the matter is, we ain't!!!  Yes, it's Winter and we all get SAD, the Summers aren't much better, lately (see, there I go, falling into the trap) but as you sit there in your centrally-heated, owner-owned homes watching 24 hour TV on your 42 inch plasma set, spare a thought for those who are far, far worse off than you are.  Don't get too goody goody about it, though, as I enjoy some of the banter.  It is, however, a bit like reading some of the moaning sods who say how bad they have it in Spain (mainly because they didn't do their homework and thought it would be just like that weekend they had in Torremolinos in July 1995).

  Hear hear!

P.S. I did do my research, and am happy to report that every weekend is now just like that one in '95!

Germans are now refusing to accept euros not printed in Germany, what does that tell you?

Well, some places in England still refuse to take Scottish notes so wouldn't worry too much about that!

I agree with Bobaol. My decisions to move were made long before this "depression" in the UK, and whilst I think moving will give my family a better life I still love living here in Inverness. We'll be keeping our house here and hope that our son will think of both Javea and Inverness as his home.

Dear All,

this thread has become a superb discussion forum and I for one am learning a lot.

Just like Gravitatingsouth I am learning things new and there are clearly risks in making the wrong decisions. Things are certainly not clear cut.

Apart from the almost worthless property in Spain, there is the ever worsening cost of living as described here, even by the enthusiasts. How has this come about? It wasn't long ago that buying cars abroad was a growth industry because in the UK we were being ripped off. Cameras and watches were much cheaper, or was that only Gibraltar?

What about the weather? My recent trip to the Costa Del Sol was postponed again because of a week long rain spell with very cold night temperatures and only 4 degrees during the day the same as Kent, why travel?

Though the roads may have been quieter, our Estepona friends told us the place was totally dead, even the cranes had largely disappeared.

The "wind-up"  question was a legitimate question raised by others to the first post which was so totally anti UK as to invite it.

My later reference to an "element" of it was also legitimate given the probable changed position, but certainly not intended to offend, sorry about that, my best wishes and encouragement was and remains most sincere.

The euro position was actually posted by another and if true makes a momentous question mark over everyone's decisions in my view.

Best Regards

Norman

Great post bobaol, and certainly one that made me realise just how lucky we are in the UK despite having to put up with Gordon Brown and his cronies trying their damnedest to ruin it.

no offence taken Norman, we are on delicate turf here at home, so granted we are swinging from side to side simply as the more we learn the goal post moves or expectations change.

thats a good thing tho'  - its only down to the honesty of people on here being upfront enough to share their experiences - good/bad that this happens and i'm welcoming it because its the best way to learn, my mother used to say :regret is a wasted emotion  she was right when it comes to wishing you had or hadnt done something because what ever you did determins what happens in the future, though my father used to say ; pre warned is prearmed ,and hopefully if you have an open mind and can learn then you can lessen your errors.

so yes we are going this way today and maybe this way tomorrow, but its hard for my other half dealing with the execution of repossesions with families that were once sitting there opening childrens account are now moving out of the family home by force/paperwork. then there's Sipson and the Heathrow plans - demolishing 16thC history, village life, graveyeards of recent burials - all wrong. They say its because we need more planes as there are more passengeros - well if someone took the view that if you want a bum on a plane seat you have to pay for it and had the courage to scrap all free kids places - then - we wouldnt need the bigger airports because if the kids go free thing was scrapped and people had to pay for every bum on plane seat, most planes woul be empty, the pollution would go down, and british seasides/jobs would be reborn,

yes we have seen good days in the uk but now(blame it on my age) we now see it going to pot and all the democracy people gave their lives for etc is being quashed. It also begs the question as to how good will it be in the uk when Obama gets comfy, bearing in mind he isnt keen on the english, maybe the usa alli we have relied on will suddenly disappear, then we will have major problems as we have offended so many countries we will be as good as defenceless without the usa in tow.

sorry for the sermon, i could list why we want out but i think most people know as its alol affecting us now - what another bank bailout package as short selling ban has been lifted - and the tax payer is to foot the bill again. AND whats with having to cover the cross at the church for Tyrone/Molly's wedding for fear that the cross would offend different cultures ? Christ this is supposed to be Britain the birthplace of the church of england/christianity, so why are we living by the beck and call of the migrants coming here? Sorry but when we go abroad we all are expected to abide by the culture/laws of that country - doesnt seem to work 2 ways tho does it, we seem to be the ones giving it all away,eventually there will be no more Britishness left.

BOBAOL

I hear you re tesco  etc, but how many folk eat correctly, some people think their 1 of 5 fruit is a jaffa cake - was in the papers. And re electronics - that was in my mind the beginning of the greed and sluvenly demise of  us all, the lack of community spirit where people knew if someone hadnt come out of the house for days on end - and went to check, now someone could be dead and who would know? Progress has a lot to answer for -it can be good as long as it stays within the parameters of its original attention - but now we change mobile phones like toilet rolls and dump our rubbish in India. Sorry I am not proud of being British anymore, for all the simplicity/basicness in other countries, they are blessed from being ignorant to 'progress' which has an endless pot constantly topped up by the tax payer.

As for the £600,000 a week footballers salary, well that is disgusting, no-one is worth it today, only someone in the future who can deliver something to stop/prevent worldwide disease/poverty/starvation.

   Yes Great post Bobaol,

                    Have to agree with you I am afraid sometimes we take things for granted, human nature I suppose.

Uk has been good to us, alright we do not have everything but we are happy with what we have and glad we have bought in Spain. It gives us something to look forwrd to in the bleak weather in the UK.  Roy loves the communication over their we speak to so many people and have made  friends with  many people. What more could you ask for. I also feel more relaxed. 

GravitatingSouth,

           Yes perhaps downsizing is a better option for you depends on prices where you are. We looked into it round this area and we found a two bedroomed flat was nearly as much as our house was worth, so decided to stay put, but prices might be different where you are.  Good luck with what you decide do not worry about the boy's they will survive.

                Pat 

G'south,

Again a great post. A man after my own heart and that of my husband too.

 good morning all

well i'm prouder in some ways to be British now than i would have been in the past.  The rights for women, the minimum wage, the banning of most cruel sports, the way we treat people from foreign lands, the luxury most of us take for granted, cheap travel, our supurb NHS and emergency services, good schooling for many. Our legal and justice system. And alot more

I know the UK has many faults as has been mentioned, and i used to be the first to say how much i would like to get away. Since becoming involved in Spain though, i realise now just how much i take for granted. I would love to spend more time in Spain in the future, perhaps rent a few months a year?, i really love many aspects of it, but to live there?, not for me now thanks.

Hi All,

Well you may have noticed my absence from topics such as these, and I suppose that is mainly due to the fact that I am fed up of people complaining about 'Life in the UK and Spain".

As Bobaol said earlier in this thread, look at the poor sods that haven't even got a roof over their heads leave alone a plate with which to put food on, should they be able scavenge some food from somewhere!

Yes! Things are bad, but no more here in Spain than in the UK or anywhere else in the EU! The world credit crisis is such - a WORLD credit crisis, therefore EVERY country around the world is affected in one way or another, but it is all about how each countries government reacts to the crisis and how much they are prepared to do in order to stimulate and thus save their own economy, BUT it doesn't end there ...

It also boils down to the reluctance of people in their own countries to go out and help themselves! What's the point of saving money when the interest you get is only slightly better than zero! You might as well, given the current respective economic and property markets conditions, go out and spend! That bigger house with a corner plot and lovely views you wanted to move your family into, well do it!  You’re not going to get another chance like this in the future! Why? Well because this economic downturn has almost bottomed out, if not done so, and once it starts climbing back up, interest rates and house prices will start to go back up both in the UK and here in Spain.

Given that Gordon Brown has stated that unless there is economic consensus around the globe, the recession in the UK 'might' last as much as two years. So in two years time, there will be signs of economic growth and therefore as soon as that happens interest rates will start to go back up, and property prices will start to climb again. Immaterial whether it is two years, three years or more, things will get better.

The evidence is there for all to see, so I say "Stop complaining about how bad the situation is, tighten your belts, enjoy your life as its short enough anyway, and reach out and make your dreams a reality".

I'm taking this thread back to what Gravitatingsouth stated at the begining:

"I stand by our decision : Give the UK the elbow, sell UK property before it becomes a negative noose, kick your spineless hanger on kids out, and move to Spain for good. Yes Spain has some problems, but they dont look so bad when you're drinking that coffee while watching the sun rise. The UK however : Waste of time, it lost the right to call itself 'Great Britain' years ago."

Couldn't have said better if I had posted those comments myself. Good luck and hope your aspirations become reality sooner rather than later.

We have never looked back for the same reasons you posted.

PS. Yes! A couple of weeks ago we had bad weather and a lot of rain here in Manilva area, having said that the day time temperature never dropped below 12 degrees and at night not below 3. Hello, this is WINTER! At the same time back in Devon in the UK, where I lived for almost 14 years, the day time temperature NEVER climbed above 2 degrees and was between -4 and -11 degrees across the county. So I for one don't complain about the weather here in Spain, as I can't see why anyone in the UK could do so either!!!

Hi all

Some very good points have been made, especially by Bobaol and TechNoApe.  We haven't been living in Spain very long (7 months), but no matter how long we are here, we will always be British.  Having said that, we have been made to feel very welcome by jumillanos, and now support the Spanish football team unless England or Scotland are playing!  There are many good things, as well as bad, to say about both countries, but you make the best of wherever you live.  Certainly there are worse countries to be living in around the world.!

We keep an eye on the weather in London, as we both have families living there, and even when it is cold here, it has been at least a few degrees warmer than in London.  Even with the bad exchange rate, living in Jumilla is a lot cheaper than being in London.  We had a cafe solo and cafe cortado this morning in a local bar, which came to 1.80 euros.  We wouldn't get one decent cup of coffee in London for that price!

Sue

suemac

indeed there are good and bad about both countries. Had we not fallen foul of the corruption/poor justice now widely reported, we might well have seen things from another viewpoint. I really used to love Spain. We can only talk from  personal experience, and thank heavens many haven't been as bad as ours!

PS

We went up the road tonight to see a local fiesta, where they were carrying a religious statue, with a band playing and lots of (noisy!) fireworks being set off.  On the way back, we stopped in a local bar for 2 vino tintos, which cost us 1.00 euro - for the two glasses of wine!  No contest!

Sue

.......thanks Sue

There's more to living in Spain than the cost of two glasses of wine though! 

Dear All,

we are told that we (my taxes) must bail out the villains who lied and cheated, avoided their proper work, siphoned off income and breached every actual regulation and work ethic thought of to get us in this mess.

My licence fee must also be used by the BBC to grossly overfeed moral absent miscreants of one sort or another.

All whilst good families are being stripped of all dignity and put on the street from simple misfortune with circumstances that may well reverse or improve with a little real help. How on earth can anyone support or even think of a system that prejudices the unfortunate with difficulties by increasing their interest rate?

I know which of the above should be justly stripped, then tarred and feathered out of decent society.

If you cannot change the system how to leave it behind and perhaps get some better weather?

Is Spain the answer?

Are a couple of glasses of cheap wine, out of a wine lake the answer????

Does Spain have the same tradition as France and give it away free with food anyway?

Surely there has to be better reasons for major decisions.

Tamsin thought about it and posted :-

Life always appears to be better on the other side.  We have a lovely apartment on the CDS and I always thought that   I would love to live there  permanently .    Yes in the summer but the winter is another aspect.   At Xmas our apartment block was empty - absolutely no-one about , weather cold and dingy, apartment so cold that we  had to go out and buy a heater .   The food prices are so expensive as is eating out .   Although we have family living nearby I must admit I was glad to get home .   This was the worst time I experienced Spain - cold, no sunny days and the empty apartment block made me realise what a good life I have here.  I can go to Spain when I want and return to my own home with its nice new kitchen and warm central heating.

Don't get me wrong  I love Spain but is very expensive - everything except the furniture I have brought from the UK and the quality is so much better for the price.  We bought a TV in Spain at about 200-300 Euros more than we would have bought in the UK . We are looking at video equipment and seeing how much it would be to ship it over .   No free banking, and huge electricity bills .  I agree the UK is going to the dogs but is Spain any better???  I  definitely would not choose to move to Spain in this economic climate.  If things get really bad there is always the £ shop ( no such shop in Spain )  - where else can you get a jar of  Nescafe for a £ .

Surely the environment would have to be truly wonderful to consider living in an under-size cheaply built holiday apartment, with little or no thermal and acoustic insulation on a permanent basis???

Or does access to a wine lake help that much???

Even with expensive electricity?

Decisions, decisions!

Regards

Norman

Normansands,

why are you such a misery?

Having an apartment  along from Sabinillas that we use for holidays I have been closely following the message thread for Casares Del Sol complex which is just up the roadfrom us. I know you are very well aquainted with this complex and those around it as you got the back up of nearly everyone on that site with your constant negativity and complaining. You spent months grumbling and causing lots of upset to people who are just trying to make the best of what they have.

Are you bored? Need someone elses enjoyment to ruin? Is that why you you have come into this thread?

I apologize to other posters for these comments about Normansands and will not be posting anyting else again regarding the gentleman but it just makes me angry that someone who obviously has nothing else to do all day feels the need to put a dampner on others enjoyment. Be it current enjoyment or the potential of future happiness in Spain which a lot of us aspire to.

Again, you may feel I should keep my opinion to myself, and you are probably right as it makes me no better thatn Normansands so I will shut up now and say no more.

Dear All,

what is wrong with me?

why oh why can't I do it?

why cannot I "make the best of it"?

why cannot a look at a badly built cramped apartment block on an overcrowded site with no facilities and suspect planning permission on a scruffy scrub hillside and see

a spacious super luxury apartment on a wonderful holiday complex with every possible holiday facility, all closed off and secure for endless wonderful enjoyment for all. Just like the brochure.

It must be wonderful to have this facility and justify whatever sacrifice and decision made, awesome.

Sorry, just cannot do it, but the regret does not make me miserable I am afraid.

However much I may envy those who can.

Though from the feedback that I get I rather suspect that there are many like Jan who are somewhat insecure in their gift.

I suggest she stands firm and stiffens her resolve if that is going to bring her contentment.

Keep at it.

Best Regards

Norman

Dear me!! We get about 70 years and a bit (if you're lucky) on this planet.  Why oh why do so many of us spend our time wasting it by jumping on to the outrage bus?  People thinking Jaffa cakes are part of their 5 a day doesn't affect me in the slightest.  It's their funerals, not mine. .  Little boxes on hillsides?  Don't buy it and look elsewhere, pointless whinging about something that has no affect on you whatsoever unless you were stupid enough to buy something you didn't want.  Other people may love them and may not be as rich as those who can afford the villas with the private pools and a butler.  Worthless Spanish property?  They might be if you've been in the market for a quick buck (thank God for spellcheckers) but to those of us who have bought for a holiday or to live then they are priceless.   Little hovels in UK can be palaces to those who live in them  and if you think the Spanish overegg the descriptions, you obviously haven't been to a UK estate agent for a while!

People who run around, flapping their arms and complaining about "Political Correctness" should simply stop buying the Daily Mail.  Most of it is a total fabrication, anyway.

(Examples:  People say Littlejohn is a voice of reason.  He said the EU was forcing UK to take bananas of a certain shape (bendy) and cucumbers of a different shape (not bendy).  No they didn't.  Food standard laws are British regulations, not EU ones.  He said trapeze artists in circuses were going to be forced to wear hard hats to climb up ropes.  No they weren't, a total fabrication on a jokey website which he picked up and stated it as fact.  He said councils in Birmingham had banned the word Christmas and changed it to Winterval.  No they didn't.  A shop in the bullring circus put it on a sign and this has now entered folklore as something councils do.  They don't.  What does he say?  You couldn't make it  up?  Oh yes, you can,  and he has - many times).

I went to Germany in December.  No-one questioned any of my euro notes, the majority of which were issued in Spain or Ireland.  TV in Spain 2 or 3 hundred euros more than in UK?  Didn't shop around very much, did we.  Carrefour had a 36 inch LCD TV for €399 when I went out in November and the exchange rate was 1.24 then.  UK dealers are reducing them because everyone has been reading the papers and are holding on to their money.  If the prices are so low now and they are still showing a profit, doesn't it just show how much they were ripping you off for in the first place?

Huge electricity bills?  Good God, come and have a look at mine in UK which have risen 3 times the amount they have in Spain.  OK, the pound crashing has had some effect but this doesn't affect the Spanish or other Europeans.  They aren't going to reduce prices just to help out the Brits whose currency has hit the skids.

And, no, two glasses of wine do not a lifestyle make.  But isn't it great to get the bottle of Valencia white (95 cents a bottle at Mercadona ) and sit on the porch or balcony enjoying watching the world go by instead of £4.99 from Tesco and sitting huddled in your living room with the central heating up full?  (PS Mercadona have put flyers out in Torrevieja that ALL prices are being reduced by 15% this month, should help a bit).

Lighten up, people.  One life, millions of options.  Stop bloody moaning!!! 

(With apologies to all who have been ripped off by unscrupulous developers/agent/lawyers/builders.  You do have a right to moan especially if you bought with Atlas and used Aroca as your lawyers (like me the first time, what a lesson to learn)).

I agree bobaol. We need to remember that one size doesn't fit all. Different people have different aspirations and expectations.  Really all anyone can do is determine their own personal priorities which will differ from person to person, and if they are not the same as yours it doesn't mean either of you is wrong,  just different..

So please stop all the argy bargy and personal attacks. Do your own thing , live wherever you want and enjoy whatever/wherever  that is.

Regards, Poppyseed