we're giving the UK the fingers up.Selling UK property before UK goes to the dogs

Ah but Roberto. It's not just the newspapers.

The TV seems to revolve around doom and gloom too... plus the miserable winters seem to be followed by miserable summers for the past few years.

Here the sun shines most days and it's really uplifting, even if it's cold.

Laury

Totally agree about the weather, there's no contest.

As for the TV - strange as it may seem, I never even owned one in the UK - or, even stranger, when we lived in the US. It is  possible! And even if you do have one, you don't have to watch the news channels (there are even more depressing options available anyway, such as True Movies!)

The thing is, (and I'm as guilty as any here) if you don't read Spanish papers or watch Spanish TV, it's very easy to be fooled into thinking that the doom & gloom only exists in the UK. If you can live in a bubble here (and want to) that's fine, but I'm sure for every Brit in Spain who believes they've escaped from Hell and found their Paradise, there's God knows how many Afghans, Iraqis, Bosnians etc. etc. living in the UK, oblivious to the British news because they don't read the papers or watch English TV, who believe they're the lucky ones. It's all relative, I suppose.

Oh I watch Spanish TV.  I just can't understand half of it.

I like my bubble.

Laury

Dear All,

bright and cold, heavy frost this morning, need extra layers to venture out - that is the news, not to be denied -is it good or bad?

Is it cleansing the environment, killing bugs and germs etc, how does Spain manage without it?

Do I care much if I have just slid over and cracked my head?

Is it all perspective?

It seems that life in a "bubble" is something of a luxury that some can afford and others cannot.

Why is it that those who can need to perpetually broadcast it?

How do you condition yourself to condemn all news as "doom and gloom" and attempt to ignore it?

Are you really ignoring it or just saying you are?

How do you bury your head so deep in the sand that you become oblivious?

Does anything really go away, or is it all still there when you emerge?

It certainly seems that a good dose of sunshine and access to that wine lake is a powerful potion!

Though has anything changed after the sun has gone down and the drink has worn off?

Is the lifestyle an end in itself or do you have to follow Justin and find something to do?

Just a thought or two?

Regards

Norman

This message was last edited by normansands on 1/21/2009.

Well it is cold enough today, here in Jumilla, to kill a lot of bugs and germs I reckon!  There are other areas where it is a lot colder too, especially inland.

We read the Spanish papers most days, for free, in the local bars.  I guess that isn't quite accurate, as we buy coffees there, but at less than 1 euro each it's not an expensive treat.  We also watch Spanish TV, and nearly every day there is mention of the "crisis", especially in humorous items, where they seem to enjoy joking about it.  We also look at the BBC website to see what's happening in the world, after all we have friends and family in many different countries, so we should be aware what may be affecting them.

John and I decided to retire abroad a long while ago, and it was nothing to do with escaping from the UK - although I guess it was partly to do with escaping from the British weather!  We were retiring, we could live where we wanted to, and we fancied the challenge.  I admit that we didn't realise quite how cold it could get here, but with the sun shining most days it is bearable, and one of our Spanish friends tells us that it isn't usually this bad, so hopefully next winter will be a bit warmer!

Sue

Roberto

have just tuned in so sorry for delay in replying.

you have a good point regarding  = if the kids came too.  yes i would much prefer the whole family to go, but then i would be putting a potential future burden on the Spanish and those in the Country as expats. why ? if my kids came too, they would then be stealing employment from the locals, if they later lost jobs (due to the maybe loss of jobs nationally as per UK) they would be a burden on the system - which i cannot support (as in consent to), i'm old fashioned i beleive there is always work if you are prepared to look for and secure it. We on the other hand would not require any finance, if anything we would then be supporting the spanish economy simply from buying tomatoes and every other daily needs. so a family split looks more likely though very sad.

it is all very confusing, i dont understand what the down grading of 3 to 2 stars means for spain, some say they are not others say they have just began to enter a recession.  as for reading spanish papers i am guilty of knowing no language other than the basic courtesy greetings, coffee, toilet, and airport lingo - totally disgraceful i know. i think people dip into english papers because they want to know whats happening in the uk as they have left loved ones behind, but yes i agree reading any paper is too depressing as is the news, but if you dont there is a chance you might fall ignorant of affairs and being the last to know can be too late if something affects you directly.

your comments were very valid though, but so far we are still set on going, though the latest family drama is my my sons think the usa might be a better option and they are thinking they may go there if we go to spain without them. now you see how the family is being pulled in all directions, each has different ideas, the kids are young men so maybe we are being real *rse holes not considering their opinion of how the usa is going to turn itself around with a new presdt, but  then they may just have pipe dreams, i really dont know. all i do know is we need to go where our assets/money etc are still holding value not on a decline.

so if anyone can answer that one, my life would be a lot easier.  be brave someone, if for nothing else so save me from having to stay put and redecorate the house Austin Powers style to compliment the kids 'new age' life style. :)

Gravitatingsouth

I think that it is very positive that your kids are thinking of going to the USA, as it sounds as if they are now willing to become independent, which is surely what you hope for your kids? Do they have skills that they can offer? Or do they have friends or family out there?  How realistic is it for them to plan to move there?  When I was young I wanted to travel, and I decided to join the WRNS.  I was posted to Northern Ireland and then to Gibraltar, so I experienced living away from my family and also living in another country.  I had a fantastic time, and I am sure they will too.

As regards moving to Spain, your best bet would probably be to rent initially if you are not 100% certain whether it is the right thing to do, as has already been suggested.

Good luck, and keep on posting!

Sue

  Quote: It certainly seems that a good dose of sunshine and access to that wine lake is a powerful potion!

Not quite true. After 3 months of living here, I haven't actually got around to buying any bottles of wine and stick to coffee in the bars when we pop in for an occasional lunch.

I think you're in danger of categorising if you're not careful.

I've been very busy working with builders to try and get the house finished and making a start on creating a garden out of our acre plot of land, which we couldn't have afforded back in the UK.

I hear of any important news from my husband who, as I mentioned earlier, spends Monday to Saturday every week in the UK.

I just don't choose to tune in to all the news programmes or read newspapers any more. I'm sick of the doom and gloom merchants. Life is too short to spend it in misery. None of us know how long we have.

Laury

Hi Gravitatingsouth

For what it's worth my advice to you would be either rent your UK house out and then rent in Spain before you commit,  or sell your UK house and buy a smaller one and rent that out. (maybe to your children!) Personally I'd hang on to what you've got for a while. We sold our family home and downsized in the UK to purchase a villa in Spain, a decision I have regretted. If I had taken the option I am now advising you to do I think I would have said goodbye to Spain,  this is a personal opinion and I doubt my OH would agree with me!

As for your son's going to the US, it's just not than easy. My son married an American girl who's family acted as his guarantor and he still had to jump through hoops to get residence and a green card. He was unable to work there until it had all been sorted. If they go and work illegally they can be deported and never allowed back...! What sort of work are they qualified to do?

Regards, Poppyseed

 I find this thread very interesting.....

I think a lot of it boils down to personal experience and how you have ben treated by either the UK or Spain.

I don't want to get into a bun fight as most people know my views on the UK, hence the fact i don't live there.

What i find interesting is that the old addage keeps appearing that people are flooding back to the UK,maybe i am missing something here,do people forget the reasons they left,do they think that it is a land of oppurtunity or is it simply familarity....?

Dear All,

Words, words, and yet more words, that is all they are.

If they are true, they make facts.

If not they are just spin, storeys and make believe.

Why oh why do they affect ex-pats so?????????

I just don't choose to tune in to all the news programmes or read newspapers any more. I'm sick of the doom and gloom merchants. Life is too short to spend it in misery. None of us know how long we have.

What is it that makes you so insecure?

Are you going to spend the rest of your lives thinking "have I done the right thing"?

Poppyseed has been frank and given good advice yet cannot persuade OH quite.

For what it is worth my daughter and partner (how the world has changed) are keen on Appaloosa horses and visited the USA, had a great time and found they could have bought a small ranch for the price of their house just north of London.

They were also told that their skills would find a ready market there with improved salaries. If she could have persuaded her two sisters who share her interest in horses we may well have lost them or had to follow. Who knows?

It would certainly seem that given the job prospects scene in Spain plus the language problem, the boys may well have come up with a very good answer. Even excellent. Give it some serious thought.

Regards

Norman

 Hi Norman,

I think you will find that most of the words on here are opinions.

Fortunately most people have their own and differ now and again.

One man's meat is another man's poison.

Why are so convinced that anyone with a different view to your own is purely offering spin?

I don't know why you call me insecure.

Life is for living. Adventures are fun.

I have seen so many people who say "when I retire I will....."  and then never actually get there.

If Gravitatingsouth is sick of the rut and the way things are in the UK. Why shouldn't he take a risk?

IN MY OPINION. England is not what it was.  Scotland and Wales are doing okay thanks to the British taxpayer. So are many immigrants and layabouts. The people who are suffering at the moment appear to be the white middle class, house owning white collar workers who are working for the benefit of everyone else.

I wanted to get away from it all and am pleased that I have,

As Georgia says. We are all different and entitled to our opinions.  I don't think you're wrong to want to stay in the UK but I also don't think i'm wrong to want to leave.

Laury

For what it's worth I think that Poppyseed is spot on. Please don't burn all your links to the UK until you are sure that Spain (or wherever) is for you. It's ok for  young people to do that but as you get older I think that making a life in a new country can be really hard. A lot of people that we have met in Spain have now gone back to the UK. The US may be the answer for your sons, Gravitatingsouth, but  as Poppyseed points out it's not that easy. My son also married an American girl and spent so long waiting for his green card that they returned to the UK!  IF they can get a job with an American company then it will much easier for them, although I suspect that that is somewhat difficult in the present economic climate.

Georgia- i think that you are right to say that people go back to the UK because it is familiar to them, also our benefit system ensures that they don't starve.

Of course these are only mine and other peoples opinions, not facts.

Would also like to add that I have  2 daughter in laws. one American, one South African and BOTH consider the UK the only place to live!!

Makes you wonder what foreigners see that we can't !

Gloria and Mike

"What i find interesting is that the old addage keeps appearing that people are flooding back to the UK,maybe i am missing something here,do people forget the reasons they left,do they think that it is a land of oppurtunity or is it simply familarity....?"

No, it's probably just that they have discovered that the grass isn't so green after all, when viewed from this side rather than the other. (For some it is, of course, butnot for every one). This is why I was trying to make the point that you need to carefully analyse your motives for making a major life change - such as emigrating - in case you are doing it for the wrong reasons, and it won't actually solve the problem that is getting you down. Suemac said  "We were retiring, we could live where we wanted to, and we fancied the challenge". I would say that's a pretty good reason, especially if you don't have to burn your bridges and can keep your options open in case it doesn't turn out to your liking. On the other hand, Gravitatingsouth, as a result of this fascinating discussion that he started, appears to be now closely analysing his true motives and beginning to wonder. That's a good thing, and I hope it all helps him come to the right decision in time, and that everything works out well for him and his family.

Incidentally, just my opinion, but if the "kids" were to follow you to Spain, it is highly unlikely they will find any productive employment, and may be surprised to discover that Spain is not as generous as the UK when it comes to support. Which means they will be looking to you! Same old same old!

The US is an excellent idea, IF they can find some way to secure a work permit. Perhaps their qualifications will help? (Maybe they should also consider Canada & Oz). If it was possible, we would still be in the US and would never have even come to Spain. Maybe they will find their feet somewhere hot and sunny, like Florida, and you'll be able to follow them and then have them look after you?!

hi poppyseed

my sons are

1/.part time teacher of higher education (eng) at university and hates teaching kids and is hoping to swap to training in the police or forces. Also a fitness fanatic, awarded gold medal re national uk university contact sport heats. learning to fly as would also consider airport police role.

2/. phd in phsycology - wants to  either become a psychologist or criminalologist .

both obviously chose specific careers, both are bright but lazy which i imagine they'll snap out of when the right opp turns up. they both worked while at uni and have been living off money they have accumalated playing the stock market - dont ask - baffles me, like i said they are bright, just plain lazy.

Dear All,

facts are facts and cannot be confused, but when those facts are gleaned from the limited information that individuals are prepared to divulge then of course one's assumptions can be wrong.

I was of course wrong, very wrong, to assume that the original post was factual and that someones sons were lazy idle good-for-nothings, spongeing off the state and their parents.

Do we now discover that those "lazy good for nothings" are so bl**dy clever that they can wipe the floor with their poor inadequate "old man", despite his hard-working achievements and choose from several possible careers, easily and carelessly milk the stock exchange for funds, whilst they ponder their many possible futures without hurry or pressure?????

Jeez, how wrong can you be???????

By the way, has the currency thing done its work, is it an actual fact that the trickle to return has actually become a flood?

Best Regards

Norman

anyone  also disturbed by the news tonight re all council's obligations re those being evicted or repossessed?

It was made by 'crisis' who stated that the only obligation lies with the council if those affected have babies or children - then a home will be found. IF you are single, couple or married couple with no babies/children they do not have to house you - you are deemed and left 'homeless' - you can if you choose sleep in your car, but no help will be given to house you.

what a way to treat those who have worked and paid tax - bye bye home, hello cardboard box. In the other corner its :  welcome to England, what can we get you, how much would you like ?

terribly disturbing, now I am ashamed of being British as well as unhappy living here.

gravitatingsouth

your last post has made me think you should just go soon........anywhere!  

You might well find your dream elsewhere?, reading all your posts though, i tend to think you might be trying to escape from yourself in some way?  The UK is far from perfect, but do you really think another country is going to be without things you detest?  I might well be wrong, but i can't help thinking that you are still thinking 'the grass is greener, when perhaps is just has different weeds?

Wow! Lauryc,

"Scotland and Wales are doing OK thanks to the British taxpayer"

Yes, you say this is an opinion but what is the thinking based on? Life is very changed all around us here in Scotland and no different from elsewhere in our experience and observation.