we're giving the UK the fingers up.Selling UK property before UK goes to the dogs

 Bobaol, excellent post and Poppyseed, well endorsed!!

Lewjan, the Troll will always post to incite whatever response he can, as he obviously needs to spend his time doing something that won't impact on anything else on this planet!!  IMO he just wants to incite malice and destruction of confidence, because he lost out himself due to his own decisions!

There comes a time when you just ignore the Troll and respond to those that are REALLY interested in the thread and not just here to vent their own misfortune!

Tish

My comment about two glasses of wine was a postscript to my previous message, where I mentioned it was cheaper to buy two coffees in Spain compared to London.  I also mentioned the better weather, the friendliness of local people, the fun and colour of local fiestas, and that there are many other aspects of living in Spain that make it a good lifestyle choice for us.  We live in a beautiful, friendly town and are enjoying life here, but we are definitely trying to make the best out of a bad situation.  We paid 38700 euros to a builder who has gone into voluntary administration and we may not get any of that money back.  It was not an investment, as we are not wealthy people, but was intended to be our retirement home.  The point I was making was that, as pensioners, if we had been in London we couldn't have afforded the two glasses of wine in a local bar.

Of course I miss things about the UK, and especially my three children, other family members and friends.  I am not knocking England, neither am I saying that Spain is perfect, just that we are enjoying the challenge, are trying to improve our Spanish and already feel at home here.  We are living in a wine town, so appreciate being able to have a couple of glasses of wine in a local bar without breaking the bank.  Is there anything wrong with that?

Thanks to Bobaol and Poppyseed for their comments.  Bobaol, I am over 61, so hope that I get at least 10 more years!

Sue

well Spain is obviously great for some and through no fault of their own has been a nightmare for others, including many who did do their homework. I think the impression people on both sides get, is that one doesn't understand, or worse still doesn't want to understand the viwpoint of the other. I think most now realise (the priors plight!) that regulation/corruption and lack of justice is a fact in Spain, and needs sorting out. I just wish everyone who could, would help with this by joining in with any protest and joining any action that will improve Spains reputation and benifit everyone, as well as those wronged so badly.  Who can blame those who are happy expressing their opinions, of course you want to post positive. The trouble is, those on the wrong side of losing a life's savings see that as more salt in the wound, and can't help feeling a bit bitter and twisted. I'm not defending that emotion, but it's just the way many of us feel sadly.

Goodstich44

Of course I understand how people can feel bitter - as I said, we may have lost a lot of money which we can't afford to lose, we definitely won't be living in our dream house, and even now we don't know if we will eventually be able to own our own house here in Spain (we are renting at the moment).  We thought we knew what was going on, we had appointed a lawyer and we trusted our estate agent, so how could we go wrong?!!  I guess my point is that whether you live in the UK, Spain or another country, you do have to make the best of where you are.  At the moment we are in Spain, but we may be forced to return to the UK, and if that happens we will make the best of life there too.

I don't think Spain is perfect, far from it, but let's hope we can help change things.  We have signed the petitions, and only wish we could have travelled to Almeria to join the protest. 

Sue

Happy, happy notes!!!

We love our apartment.

It is everything that we could have wished for. The size we wanted. At a price that suited our finances. Bedrooms the right size and the right number. A kitchen that has everything we need. Bathrooms that are tastefully furnished. The whole apartment is exactly as the specifications said it would be. Furnished exactly as we wanted it due to our impecable taste and what felt like many hundreds of hours spent in furniture showrooms  . In the perfect location for what we wanted. Walking distance to the beach. Perched on top of a small hill, which whilst doesnt give us sea views (we did'nt ask for them so not sometihing that is omitted) we have wonderful views of the hills leading up the Casares road which take in a lot of the new golf clubs which have been recently constructed. How wonderful to know that that golf clubs will always ensure that we have green and pleasant views to look at. It also of course keeps the husband a very happy man as whenever we get out he gets to play rounds of golf to his hearts content. Be it literally just across the road,or further afield if he should so wish. It is peaceful. The 'council' seem to come round fairly often, certainly always when we are out and keep the surrounding areas as clean and tidy as they can.

If you take yourself down to the local chirinquito and turn right we have a lovely stroll along the beach to Sabinillas. You can take as long as you like or make it in 20mins if in a hurry. But why hurry. What joy to just stroll along the seashore taking in the fabulous surroundings.

Sabinillas we love. Have found a couple of the local restaurants that we seem to frequent on a regular basis. Many of these have been mentioned by others who live in the area.

Our particular favourite restaurant is MIel. The Belgian restaurant/bar. We  find it a very reasonable price. The staff are always very friendly and attentive.They do a mean salad if you want to keep things simple or you can have a more substantial meal if required. We just spend most of our time in there either dinking a coffee, a beer and just looking out to sea. What a difficult decision to have to make on how to spend an afternoon.

Stroll a little further to Duquesa and go and visit the 'mad' Canadian in the Straw Donkey. Go there on a Sunday and enjoy the breakfast. Sometimes you just have to revert back to your old ways and have a good full on Breakfast,heaven.

Spain, we love it.

I am interested in a particular property in Spain and would like to contact the registered owner. I am though still in UK. Is there a land registry search facility to do this in Spain that I can access from UK? Does anyone know or can help?

Sue, No malice intended! As goodstitch wrote so well, when you've been conned,  and know the heartache thousands of people are enduring because of the corruption and disgraceful unscrupulous developers et al all connected with the construction business in Spain, it is nigh on impossible to see any good or positive side to Spain. This is magnified when the judicial system condones it rather than condemns it by the ridiculous judgements made in favour of the corrupt developers and lawyers. It is the lawyers that I personally think should be held to account for allowing the crooked developers to get away with their illegal building in the first place.

Rant over, I wish you all the best Sue.

no matter what we do or say - you cant avoid the fact we're english, the only problem is that the politicians controlling us, our money, our choices, are the ones that are making the uk a declining place to want to live in, unless of course,you get off a plane, and claim assylum - then of course you get (free of charge or at the generosity of those paying tax) a free house, car, sky dish, spending money, paid for utility bills and if you don't like whats in this 'free house'you can demand a new kitchen,new bathroom, double glazing.

yes its great to be british if you arent british, because then this country and what is has to offer is - basically priceless.

for the tax payers present and past, well, you/me sadly have to pay for a better life while your hard earnt savings no longer get credible reward by good interest rates, no you only benefit today if you are on benefit or want to borrow more and more.

not how we were raised - anyone remember - never a borrower be ?

HI all,

Some interesting posts. I'm english and my wife is spanish. We are going to start a new life out there near the remainder of her family with the view to try and get a business idea off the ground. There are many things I love about the uk (even the weather !), but more recent years I've come to appreciate some of the things that are so alien to people in spain, e.g. consumer rights, legislative frameworks which are there to benefit and protect us all, choice for almost anything you could wish for, beautiful countryside, protected land and rights to access for the general public, animal welfare in farming practises, etc. The list goes on.

There are some things which I really dislike about my country, but its not the reason for moving. We've been thinking about it a long time and now we get the feeling that its probably the right time - we've only got one baby, no more children, we've got some savings. If we decide to stay here for much longer we may end up financially committed and we will be asking ourselves the 'what if' question forever.

Unfortunately we dont own a uk property so we wont have that to go back to in future, but we've got my folks in scotland and my sister in northampton so its not all bad.

All I really want to say is that life for most of us is beautiful and we are blessed with these opportunities that people in other countries around the world can only dream of doing.

Steve.

Hi gravatatingsouth i have been told one of the first things people who claim  assylum get is a mobile phone so they can  keep in touch with there familys back home this was told to me by someone who see them when they arrive just somethink else to up set us all bye irene 

SteveBarbosa

sounds like you have a pretty good grip on the reality of living in the UK, and how much we take for granted.  I also think you are right with the 'what if' thing.  That is what most of us feel i think when it comes to moving or buying property abroad.

I wish you all the best with your exiting venture. Having the Spanish relatives must be a fantastic help in getting the whole picture.

irenemontague

i know we are all sick to death with spongers and the fact we are to soft on them, but please spare a thought for the genuine one's who are doing what any of us would do, by trying to get a better life if we lived in one of  the desperate countries of the world. Many of them risk everthing, and then work like dogs when they get here, doing the low paid jobs that many in the UK wouldn't get out of bed for.  I know we have to get rid of  'something for nothing'  culture that has created problems like this.

goodstitch44

we can only imagine (or prefer not to) the plight of those fleeing whatever. BUT to genuinely claim assylum/refugee status - the person is SUPPOSED to claim it on the soil/country they first set foot on/in after crossing the border of the land they're fleeing.

So - take Europe, they cross Spain,France,Germany,Italy,Belguim etc etc, and do not stay until they get to UK, Why? because no other country gives the freebies we do, therefore the other lands they cross before getting to UK arent to their benefit. Their intention is to come to UK and claim the lot including a pension which none of them have paid tax for.

Until the UK has border control (like US) and removes them and takes them back to the first county they entered (for it to be the place of claim) we are slowly being driven outof out own land. If you want to know how I know these facts - my other half deals with such people coming into the B/Soc with a pre-arranged appt with the branch Manager, armed with a choice of properties they want a DHSS mortgage on - and they're not your terraced house or flat, they are 5 bed detached because they say the females cant be in the same room as the males, therefore they need extra rooms !

Perhaps we could all get together and march into Spain and demand a retirement villa because we are suffering from S.A.D and its against our human rights to allowed to become depressed from lack of sunshine, therefore we demand to be housed in sunny Spain :)

Ah hah, the 'what if'. Some twenty odd years ago I really wanted to emigrate to Oz, my Mum had a brother there already so my Mum & Dad would go if we did as they had visited and loved the place, they really wanted to go but wouldn't go without us. For various reasons we didn't go, and I have said 'what if' ever since. I don't think we would have bought property in Spain and all the trauma (and drama) that entailed and the ongoing hassle with it. There are some people in my life who will never be allowed to forget this!!!

Whatever your choices they probably seemed right at the time, sometimes they work sometimes they don't. We have encouraged  (and  initially supported) our children to be adventurous and go out into the world so hopefully they will be less likey to say 'what if' in the future. They are both abroad living full and exciting (well exciting to me anyway) lives and  are now fully self supporting and independant.

Regards, Irene

Dear All,

WHAT ON EARTH IS A DSS MORTGAGE?

IF THESE ARE AVAILABLE, HOW CAN ANYONE BE RE-POSSESSED?

SURELY WE HAVE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD FOR ALL?

Regards

Norman

P.S. Justin when are you going to stop the blatant advertising by those posters with totally beloved apartments that are somehow available 100% of the time?

gravitatingsouth

i agree that i don't feel comfortable with an unlimited amount of people coming in and claiming of the state. I also don't feel comfortable sitting in my ivory tower saying, ''Tough luck, go back to your hell-hole of a country. How can i afford the latest 50" plasma TV if i have to feed you? '' 

There has to be balance i feel, and I think its the responsability of all wealthy countries to do their bit, while at the same time not being soft touches to all.. Most of us do live in relative paradise here, credit crisis or not.

Norman,

"Surely the environment would have to be truly wonderful to consider living in an under-size cheaply built holiday apartment, with little or no thermal and acoustic insulation on a permanent basis???"

The next time you are in Spain and around Duquesa/Manilva area, please let me know as I would love to show you my TOWNHOUSE where we live, at the top of a hill with views from the Mountains right down to the sea. You seem to think that only small, cheaply built holiday apartments make up all of Spain’s housing, you are wrong!

My house consists of:

Basement Level: Private underground 65m2 garage, big enough to park both of our cars 'nose to tail' and room for another two!

Ground Level: Private elevated garden leading to front door, which leads onto: Hallway with guest w/c, separate cloakroom, Fully Fitted kitchen with pre-installed BOSCH appliances which include: Fridge/Freezer, Oven and Ceramic Hob with overhead range style extractor, Dishwasher, separate utility room with Washing machine and hot water tank. Open plan Living room and dining room which leads onto elevated terrace. via twin patio doors.

First Level: 3 bedrooms, Master bedroom with fully en-suite bathroom and private terrace, 2nd bedroom with private terrace, family bathroom. All the bedrooms have stunning sea and mountain views.

Top level: Atrium leading onto rooftop solarium with stunning, almost 360 degrees, unhindered, panoramic breathtaking views from the mountains inland, with Caseras nestled into the hillside, all the way along and down to the sea. From the front one can see the port of Duquesa, Sabiniilas, Estepona and Marbella and from the side and to the rear one can see the mountains and the campo all the way down to the sea, and on certain days, when the weather and the light are just right, you can just see the majestic coast of Africa.

Oh! I almost forgot! There is pre-installation ready for a Jacuzzi (or hot tub as some call it) on the roof top solarium and when we install one, which we will do later this year, I shall be sat in our Jacuzzi, late at night on a warm and barmy Octobers eve, sipping a lovely glass of Cava whilst relaxing in the hot, bubbling water looking down towards Duquesa, Sabinillas, Estepona and Marbella, with the stars above in all their glory! .... I'm there know!

All properties are thermally insulated in addition to acoustically insulted, with access to FOUR community swimming pools, tennis court, soccer court, children’s playground, and large community gardens.

Far cry from a mid-terraced two up, two down house in some dark and dingy, cold and miserable city centre, chucking it down with rain and blowing a gale. With views from the front of your neighbour coughing his guts up, fag in mouth, as he bends over to pick up his bottle of milk, scratching his harris with his other hand. Oh and let's not forget the views from the rear garden that Looks directly onto someone else’s garden, which is full of washing on the line and eleven screaming kids running around, swearing and blinding, whilst their parents sit and watch the 50" Plasma that the DSS purchased for them as it was a necessity of life that they can't do without. And don't forget the vicious dog that's allowed to roam wherever it wants, whenever it wants and comes and defecates on your garden, but your to afraid  to say anything to the owner, who’s tattooed hoody mates will come and kick your teeth in if you look at them the wrong way! And when it gets dark, you barricade yourself inside, far to afraid to even look outside through the curtains, just in case you see some of those kids you saw running around in your neighbours garden, this time drinking vodka by the bucket load, waving machetes around and kicking someone to the ground just because they were walking down 'their patch', and at the same time laughing out loud and filming this debacle on their mobile phones, knowing full well the police are powerless to do anything about it!

Did I miss anything out during that comparison? Yes I did ... it is actually far worse in so-called 'Great' Britain than the picture I have just put inside everyone’s head!!! Things are like that in Barnstaple near  Braunton in Devon where I used to live until recently, and that’s in a RURAL part of the country, so god help what the inner cities are like know!!!!!

technoape

your last 2 paragraphs said it all. on the nose.

normansands

a dhss mortgage basically is, your circumstances meant that you were given permission to CHOOSE what accomodation was suitable for your family and its 'ethnic/religious/culture' needs. therefore if the house you found which met them and it happened to be 'for sale' then basically you completed a mortgage application at a building society  (stating  :unemployed - income - dhss), who then sent it off, if the mortgage criteria/personal needs were approved, then the house became yours and the mortgage payments were met by the dhss. my other half dealt with such applications back in 1988 - I cannot put her 'signed to secreacy contract in jepody - so am not going to comment further re data protection red tape etc. but now you understand why also having to deal with actioning previous repossessions has taken its toll - only the salaried fall foul of repossession, the dhss continue to pay.

TechNoApe

if posting daft generalisations about life in the UK helps you to justify living in Spain, that's your choice, but it's simply not true for the majority. There's probably as many reasons to justify living in either country.  You pays your money..........

TechNoApe,

Best laugh I've had in ages!!  Great post!

One of the reasons why we haven't in many, many years, and don't plan to ever live in the UK again.