we're giving the UK the fingers up.Selling UK property before UK goes to the dogs

goodstitch44

where do you suggest ?  a pin in a map? I do resent the comment I am escaping from myself, that was unfair - if I was doing such a thing then it would be all about me, so why am I so concerned about my family and the impact on them if left behind or coming with us. I already said we need no finance to buy, we will not be seeking to work, but I cannot consent to my family moving to spain and taking jobs from spanish nationals - as that would be hypocritical re immigration. as and where we go ,we will be putting our money into that country and supporting its growth, though I have to know my assets are being rewarded. 

I am not a dreamer, this is a decision for the remainder of mine and my other half's lives, it is not to be taken lightly which is why I am keen to voice my reasons for wanting out here but also why I am asking if my feelings on the subject have been the feelings of others - which is why they left. Alsoto heed the warnings of those gone before me who are honest enough to say - spain is great - but avoid these areas etc.

honesty, thats the key, just like if one lives in an area in the uk that has knife crime, one would hopefully tell a friend or someone that asked about the area the facts - well I would.

if someone waved a magic wand and said YOU could live anywhere, where would choose and why?

gravitatingsouth

sorry if my comments offended you, that wasn't the intention. I know i was a bit harsh, but to criticise the UK for being to soft on some when it suits you and to hard on others when it suits you, seemed a bit strong to me. The fact that relative to some other countries, we have a system that looks after those in need  pretty well, the fact we have pretty good regulation with regard to planning, law, and justice, the NHS, the emergency services, the fact we have good laws on womens rights, minimum wages, cruelty to animals etc,  seems not important to you?   Yes we have crappy weather, and are to soft on various issues.  I agree much could be improved with the way the country is run,  and many of the bad things in the UK have been mentioned on this thread.  There is no doubt  much wrong with the UK..  I just get a feeling that the reasons you feel like moving might be more to do with what's going on in your head, rather than the reality of the improvement you might find by moving? .

Don't get me wrong, i admire you for trying to improve your situation and 'having a go', and i think with your opinion on the UK, you wont be happy until you have tried a new country. I really wish you all the best , and realise you have not gone in to this lightly. Please just ignore my comments as you see fit, just my opinions, based on a hunch i get from reading your posts. I might well be completely wrong, you might move to Spain, and like many, find it's the best thing you ever did, and suits your way, far more than the uk?

I would try France probably at the moment as a place to start a new life, or possibly  New Zealand if i didn't have elderly parents to look out for.

goodstitch44

i second new zealand too, around christchurch if i could go, but its too far at our age and with family, like you say - great if no-one could need to depend on you. i wish i'd gone years ago when my father had the chance as a plumber, but like a fool we declinded in favour of giving the kids an english education - which i never shall regret. though one often wonders - what if ........ (by the way he passed away 10 yrs back and my mother returned with his ashes, we had a 2nd funeral persee in the UK as we - plus the whole family - did not fly out to new zealand at my mothers insistance))

i understand where your comments came from, if nothing else i am grateful as you have kept me in touch of the plus points we have to compare with others, but again one has to wonder what will happen in 20yrs time when the nhs bubble bursts and we are old, we have supported our kids dreams by letting them go unconditionally, and find we cannot cope or worst still someone passes a law that says -over a certain age nature is to be left to take its course and medical help / daily pills etc is withdrawn. I do not have a fear of death itself but more so the manner in which one can be left to die or the resources arent there to treat you. Morbid thoughts i know but i am one (as people may have well worked out) who likes to plan ahead and have all the boxes ticked. Not possible I hear people say, true true, but you have to try and get the future mapped some what in case your mind goes and you have to rely on the honesty and good will of a  health service/system.

I think what we will do now is take a bit of everyones opinions and go out there for a month and do some real sifting and maybe not just stay in one place as planned but stay in another choice for a comparison. Life was so much simpler when planes didnt operate like buses and you maybe had a choice of 1 or 2 places rather than the whole world and its suberbs.

opinions still and always welcome, and yes I was abit taken by your comment, not personally but more so that you made me sit up and listen - there is a tendancy to be so mind set, one can miss the obvious and regret it. so thanks for a reality check, no hard feelings :)

Lifeline, in answer to your query.

I was thinking about the free prescriptions, hospital parking and university fees in the main. All voted in for Scotland and Wales and paid for by the British government and yet the English don't get any of them.

Laury

gravitatingsouth

You Posted

(now I am ashamed of being British as well as unhappy living here.,)

Likewise as many have the small minded arrogance that we have standards that everyone should follow.

Love your postings and am really envious that I cant join you just yet.

Keep the Coffee ,wont be long and I think thousands of others will follow when the Credit Crunch and the Exchange rates ease.

Am getting well and truly screwed here so may as well be screwed in a nice climate.

Good Luck to you   

Norman

Why does the editor have to get involved if some say nice thigs about their apartments and situation.

Just Dan

Hi Gravitatingsouth

Your kids are obviously educated and bright, so perhaps abit of tough love is the answer. Difficult to administer but they may thank you in the future.

Good luck.

Regards, Poppyseed

What a fascinating thread - not least because I constantly find myself thinking something, only to find Goodstich has just posted my thoughts. Who'd have thought?!

A couple of points:

"I cannot consent to my family moving to spain and taking jobs from spanish nationals" - never likely to happen, as I've said before, but if they did, it would only be due to the consequence of them being better qualified for a specific role than their Spanish counterpart - why would that be wrong? Interesting that the quote "disappointing kids" of the original post turn out to be well qualified and obviously smart and perfectly capable of supporting themselves. Not quite how they were portrayed originally, hence some of the comments that followed by others. I don't know why any offence was taken at Goodstich's comment about running away from yourself, because that's the obvious conclusion to be drawn from the emerging details.

"where we go ,we will be putting our money into that country and supporting its growth, though I have to know my assets are being rewarded". contradicts the previous statement, since if the kids did find legal employment, they would be putting something into the economy. On the other hand, as retirees, I don't see that you will be contributing in any significant way, apart from having your NI contributions transferred to Spain so that you can then take advantage of the free health care. Not a criticism as such, just not sure where you're going on this one. Also, how exactly are your assets going to be better rewarded in Spain that the UK? I don't follow - if this is about the pound and interest rates etc., do you know something we don't about the euro? (See other thread on exchange rates and PIGS for more!) If it's about property prices, wake up and smell the coffee. (or at least try following news other than the UK's)

"one has to wonder what will happen in 20yrs time when the nhs bubble bursts and we are old, we have supported our kids dreams by letting them go unconditionally, and find we cannot cope or worst still someone passes a law that says -over a certain age nature is to be left to take its course and medical help / daily pills etc is withdrawn. I do not have a fear of death itself but more so the manner in which one can be left to die or the resources arent there to treat you. Morbid thoughts i know but i am one (as people may have well worked out) who likes to plan ahead and have all the boxes ticked". I think I've mentioned before that many expats end up returning to the UK for medical reasons. All I can say on this rather bemusing comment, is make sure you do your homework. Just about everything you said here could so easily have been written by someone trying to justify why they are leaving Spain and returning to England.

Just my tuppence.....

** EDITED - Spam **

I don't want to get involved in all this personal argy bargy, but do feel the need to respond to this comment from Roberto,

"On the other hand, as retirees, I don't see that you will be contributing in any significant way, apart from having your NI contributions transferred to Spain so that you can then take advantage of the free health care. "

If a British retiree is spending their UK pension in Spain then they are contributing to the Spanish economy by importing money, In the last week we have heard how emigrating Brits, mostly pensioners have rejuvenated areas that had falling to pieces.

Regards, Poppyseed

What argy bargy? I'm just offering up my thoughts (same as everyone else) and I did say "not a criticism". I simply questioned the statement  "where we go ,we will be putting our money into that country and supporting its growth, though I have to know my assets are being rewarded". Spending your pension in Spain may contribute in some small way to the economy, but buying a few glasses of vino is not really what most would consider supporting economic growth, and is unlikely to go very far towards rejuvenating deprived neighbourhoods, is it? There seems to be some sort of suggestion that bringing your pension with you and spending it here is a Noble Cause. But then, the second part of the statement implies that some sort of reward is expected in return for this act of selflessness. Like I said, just not sure where you're going with this. After all, you could argue conversely that by taking your pension out of the UK, you are contributing towards the apparent decline of that country, that prompted this thread in the first place. I'm just curious to know in what ways ones "assets" are likely to be more or less rewarded, depending on where you choose to live? I genuinely did not fully understand this comment, and hoped for some clarification.

Agreed that there are some interesting comments being thrown up on this thread.  One that keeps coming up is where would you pick if not Spain?

Yep, Australia and New Zealand sound nice but if you have family it would be a case of goodbye for almost ever, I should think.  No quick couple of hours and cheap flights there.

USA, Florida in particular?  They won't let you live there unless you have lots (and lots) of money.  You can only live there for 6 months of the year with a maximum (very strictly controlled) single stay of 90 days.  You can either show you have 5 million dollars in the bank (so you're not a drain on their social) or that you intend to offer at least 10 USA citizens a permanent job.  if you're younger, you must show that your job can't be done by an America citizen or that you are substantially adding to the US economy (even fully qualified UK doctors have problems getting the green card).

Closer to home and the UK pound seems to be crashing against everything including the Cyprus and Egyptian pounds.  The only one its holding its own with is the Turkish lira.

Normansands said

Cyprus is being heavily pushed as a better bet at the moment.

It is even suggested that it does not suffer from the same crooked lawyers.

Cyprus is still a divided island.  The UK pound is only worth 58 cents so it is now very expensive (Oh for the days when it was one for one).  The health system is terrible (Cypriots who can afford it pay into the system which allows them to use the one British Military Hospital there to give them better care).  If you think it is bad in Spain when it rains and the drains start backing up, don't go to Larnaca or Limassol where they completely implode!!!  And most of the businessmen took the word crooked and improved on it.  Their equivalent of manana is "five minutes" which can mean anything from 2 hours to 6 years, as in "Where's my drink?"  - Five Minutes (hour or so later you get your drink).  "When will my washing machine be repaired?"  Five minutes (3 weeks later it comes back).  "How long will be waiting for the house deeds"  Five minutes (3 years later you might be told they are in the solicitors for.......you guessed it, Five minutes)

Turkey?  Not bad against the Lira but they will probably switch to the euro when they are allowed to so that puts the kibosh on that.  Morocco?  Pound crashing against the dirham.

South Africa?  If it's so good there, why are so many of them in UK?  It also has one of the highest rates of HIV/AIDS in the world, crime is the 10th highest in the world (think of some of the countries in the world and then compare them) and murder and assault crimes boost them up to number 2.  

I am not trying to knock all the other countries but a lot of homework has to be done before decisions are made.

To my mind, I am happy with my choice.  I have a nice house  which ticks most of the boxes (lovely insulation - lots of room - great area - lovely neighbours - fantastic amenities) and I don't recognise the little boxes on the hill syndrome.  Yes, my first holiday home was a bit like the "box in a ghetto" that has been alluded to BUT it was a holiday home.  Great for a couple of weeks at a time and geared up for tourism.  Take a bit of time and get a good developer/builder.  My house is extremely well built but it took a long time to find the right one.  The money situation?  Sorry, but the Spanish cannot be blamed for the pound crashing, you can lay that one at the doors of the bankers and (change first letter of that word) in the government we currently have.

I still find Spain relatively cheap, the people great, easy to get to and, whilst not the ideal utopia some people will spend many fruitless years seeking, is still one of the best bets to invest your future in. 

Sorry for all those for whom it didn't work out.  But if it doesn't work for you in Spain, it probably won't anywhere else.

Great positive post, as usual, Bobaol. Especially your closing remark, "But if it doesn't work for you in Spain, it probably won't anywhere else". I think this ties in with the suggestion of  "running away from yourself". I'm neither pro or anti UK or Spain, but I'm just a little bit disturbed by the seemingly increasing number of people who seem to cite escaping the UK as their main motivation for moving to Spain. Starting a new adventure with a negative just doesn't seem very, well, positive, to me.

advice re getting internet providers- any one got the equivalent of wanadoo/orange/bt , how do you go about it.

Re my comment about supporting economy where living :buying food, car, furnishings, landscaping etc. is that not contributing and hopefully keeping spanish companies turning over and people in jobs ?

Roberto

yes indeed. We are thinking along the same lines (strange though it is!). 

gravitatingsouth

I've known several people who have blamed all sorts of thinks around them for their current state of mind, only to find a better state of mind on their doorstep due to a lifestyle change of some description like work, relationships,( family or otherwise), new hobby, house move, improved health (run a marathon etc, etc).  I know this isn't always the case by any means, and might well not be for you, and i realise many people do move abroad to escape the weather, the rat race, the pressure etc, and other reasons that you have mentioned, and are now happy with that reason for going. I just think that some really honest soul searching needs to be done before burning your bridges. Renting before selling up would seem to be by far your best bet i would think, and for anyone for that matter?. You sound like you are going through all options now with balance, so good luck with which ever one comes up trumps!

I should think you have paid more than enough tax over the years to justify contributing where ever you wish!

Dear All,

the thread just gets better.

Last night's "Question Time" had a Telegraph correspondent telling us that the demise of the Euro and the implosion of the "pigs" is only six months away.

An American guru is advising all Sterling assets should be liquidated.

A cup of low grade chocolate and a bit of fried bread is expensive in Estepona.

TechNotApe is not a battle scarred fugitive from a no-go UK and was not "spot on".

goodstitch sussed it and others new it.

He is in fact a welsh entrepreneur/storyteller who has done very well out of the UK.

So well in fact that he has been able to buy two CDS properties and still retain his UK one.

He is so shrewd he buys his petrol in Gibraltar, perhaps other things also.

America is the best place to live but they wont let you in.

The Russians have gone to Cyprus where they are to build the theme park to end all theme parks, much better than Disney, this to go with golf and marina facilities in abundance.

Sir Alan Sugar says that CDS is a bore, there is nothing to do there.

The Spanish estates sector is in a bad way with offices closed, staff sacked and owners working from domestic garages and Internet fronts.

The trickle of unfortunate returnees has become a flood and would be a tidal wave if only they could sell their worthless Spanish properties. If you cannot sell something when you want to then it is just that, worthless.

Have I missed anything?

Regards

Norman

America is the best place to live but they wont let you in.

You must be joking and obviously have never lived there. Fine for the very rich and wealthy but not for the majority.

Pipalunapapa

can you expand on that?  I'd be interested to hear about your experience in the US, good or bad.

Goodstitch...she says she has never lived there!

Interesting

Pipalunapapa never said SHE hadn't lived in the US, Tish, she just inferred that BOBAOL hadn't !