we're giving the UK the fingers up.Selling UK property before UK goes to the dogs

Ah HA!!!  Depends how you read it. Sorry goodstitch.

Morerosado said "Pipalunapapa never said SHE hadn't lived in the US, Tish, she just inferred that BOBAOL hadn't !"

UH?  No she didn't because it wasn't me that said that, it was normansands.  I just said they won't let you live there.

Oh, and FYI, I did live there for 18 months (exchange posting in DC) and, if you are an American, you don't really have to be rich but you will be at the bottom of the pile if you're not.  They have several good health systems depending on your circumstances.  If you can afford it you have private health insurance and have your pick of the hospitals.  If you can't afford it you have Medicare which provides cheap prescriptions and you are stuck in county hospitals which are like our A&E departments on speed.  I think the one in ER is a county hospital and, yes, they are like that especially in Washington which has more attempted murders every week than we have in a year in UK.  Medicaid is for the retired.  They do, however, have an excellent VA (Veterans Association) medical system which looks after all ex-service people and even have their own hospitals.

The difference between rich and poor in America is staggering.  In one square mile you will see billionaires with opulent houses whilst others live in cardboard boxes in alley ways.  New Orleans (prior to Katrina) had heavily policed tourist areas (The French Quarter) with money flowing like water while two blocks away people are living rough in Louis Armstrong park.  Go a couple of streets away from the French Quarter and you'll take your like in your own hands.  Much the same in Vegas with millions changing hands on "The Strip" but boarded up shops run by shopkeepers armed with pump-action shotguns.  And don't even think of moving to the boondocks of Arkansas, Tennessee or the like.  Dirt-poor means exactly that with people eking out an existence on a 10th of what is considered a living wage.

There are, however, two main reasons I wouldn't like to live in the States.  Whilst I do like the openess of the Americans, it can get on your nerves after a while.  You are expected to tell everyone how much you earn, how many wives you've had etc etc.  It does really grate after a bit.  Then there's the food.  For a Brit to complain about food it must be bad.  Tasteless, bland and ginormous portions.  Burgers and bread that taste like cotton wool, fruit and veg that looks absolutely perfect but tastes of nothing at all.  Steaks so big that one portion would feed a family of 4 in the UK but taste like wood chippings (some restaurants have got it right but they are very expensive).  Spare ribs?  I give them to my dog.  They extol things like guacamole, re-fried beans, tacos, tortillas and other Mexican rubbish.  Jasper Carrott said there are millions of Mexicans trying to escape north to get away from this garbage and then they find you get it forced on you there!!  Don't get me wrong, I quite like the odd taco but if you go into a Taco Bell it would put you off the stuff for life. The only taste(if you can call it that) is a relish that burns the lining off your tongue.

The weather extremes are far greater than anything you have ever experienced.  Hot, humid and downright uncomfortable in the summer so you have to have the aircon up full.  Winter comes and 3 feet of snow for weeks on end is not a rare occurence (in the Northern states, anyway).  Go south and the humidity in the summer is unbearable, so unlike the dry heat we have in Europe.  Plus the numerous hurricane watches and tropical storms.  No  help given if your house is destroyed in a hurricane as you would be lucky to get an insurance company to cover you.

Oh, a couple of other things that gets on your nerves after a while.  They have cheese on everything (not real cheese, you understand, but some spray stuff out of a can), they cover their salads in what they call "bacon bits" which haven't been near a pig in all its processed life.  And the bacon itself is about as tasty as a grilled piece of waxed paper with the same texture to boot.

The Americans have no sense of humour and take everything so seriously that it becomes laughable.  They have an absolute faith in that what they do is right and the rest of the world is wrong, even down to their sports which no one else in the world plays. 

The average American couldn't even point out Europe on a map let alone name one of the countries there.

Culture?  We have more culture in a pot of yogurt than they have in their whole country.  It's quite funny when they tell you about their "historic old buildings" dating from the late 1800s.  Good Lord, my Grans house is older than most of their historic buildings!! 

The add the sales tax to things AFTER you've bought them.  Buy a shirt for $19.99 and it'll become £21.30 when you go and pay for it.  Most annoying. 

On the plus side, they hate the French.  Only good thing going for them, I suppose. 

Well, that's another fine thread drift you've got me into. 

""Spending your pension in Spain may contribute in some small way to the economy, but buying a few glasses of vino is not really what most would consider supporting economic growth, and is unlikely to go very far towards rejuvenating deprived neighbourhoods""

Sorry if I'm being thick but I just don't get it.........we don't live in Spain full time yet, but we spent hundred's of thousand's buying a villa, thousands and thousands improving it and also pay the followingon an ongoing basis,

• council tax
• urbanization fees
• electricity
• gas (yes we have mains gas)
• water
• phone
• mobile broadband
• pool maintenance (Spanish company)
• garden landscaping (Spanish company)
• every visit finds us spending loadsamoney on stuff for the house, fixtures & fittings
• living expenses when actually there, luxury stuff like food and drinks
• We are considering a new kitchen but thats still just at the 'thinking' stage
• wealth tax before it ceased
• car hire

I know it''s all relative and what one person considers a big contribution is a drop in the ocean to another, but I do think we are making a sizeable individual contribution which will increase when we spend more time there, and if you x this by the thousands of people who have property in Spain I think it would add up to a significant contribution. A bit more than a couple of glasses of vino thats for sure......!

The press have acknowledged this and the Lenox mentioned this when addressing the march in Almeria on 9 Jan, the video is on this site.

Regards, Poppyseed

PS As for the US, the main problem is health insurance, if you don't have it as part of your employment package it is eye wateringly expensive. However, if you do have a job that includes this you can live well without the need to earn megabucks. The welfare system is not as generous as ours as they expected all who could work to work, but with the current economic problems it will be interesting to see how the new president deals with the rising numbers of unemployed.

bobaol

i am very new to this..

have just sat back silently taken on board everyones gripe on spain, uk, cyprus, America..  winced a few times!!

i can only say that you made me 'laugh out very load' ....your take on the Americans was a classic..  not being awfull but i agree with your thoughts.  but nobody can deny the Americans never fail to be gracious, they are always well mannered & polite. 

Oh, yeah.  That's another thing.  "Can I be of service?" "How may I be of service?"  "Have a nice day"  "Missing you already". "Would you like fries with that and supersize?" all said with a fixed grimace (or smile if you like).  And getting called "Sir" by all and sundry......how old did they want me to feel?

Great for a holiday.  Gets on us grumpy Brits nerves after a year of it.  Well, it gets on this grumpy Brits nerves, anyway.

bobaol

can i be nosey what makes you grumpy?

are you just a grumpy person or just grumpy at the moment... lol

can just visualise you at a charachter lunch when 'chip & dale' or 'mini mouse' come toward you...

Oh, God!  Chip n Dale!! My missus loved em, you should have seen me when Piglet and Winnie the Pooh came up at breakfast.  Go away, I am trying to catch this bacon cos it keeps flying off when I try and cut into it!!!  No wonder all the food in the States is designed to be eaten by your fingers.  For a start, they can't use a knife and fork properly.  Ribs, burgers, bacon, tacos, fries (they're not fries, they are chips, peasants) corn dogs et al.  All designed to be eaten by hand.  

Grumpy?  Cos I'm getting older and the things youngsters do nowadays irritates me to hell!!!  Manners out the window, the only adjective they know begins with an F.

Then again, the older ones in the nylon football shirts and grotty trainers with shorts somewhere between their knees and ankles irritates the hell out of me, as well.  Ignorant ways of speaking to someone from another country just because they don't speak English so they shout louder.  And this damn weather....snowed here this morning and now miserable drizzle. 

(Actually, I'm quite a friendly, easy-going chap who gets on with most people....just like to vent my spleen now and again, especially at the end of the week after dealing with pig ignorant members of the public who think receptionists are fair game for their insults and that they and there problems are more important than anyone else).

Still, back to Spain next week.  I was hoping to be there permanent by now but credit crunch (that's another phrase that gets on my nerves) and crooked lawyers have conspired to put the kibosh on that for the time being. Ho hum.....sitting on my balcony next week with a glass of the old vino tinted should put all this into perspective.  Haven't even got a cat over there to kick like I have here (this is where I get jumped on by the cat lovers on the forum ---------IT WAS A JOKE, HONEST - it's just the missus I kick now and again).

Oh, God!  Chip n Dale!! My missus loved em, you should have seen me when Piglet and Winnie the Pooh came up at breakfast.  Go away, I am trying to catch this bacon cos it keeps flying off when I try and cut into it!!!  No wonder all the food in the States is designed to be eaten by your fingers.  For a start, they can't use a knife and fork properly.  Ribs, burgers, bacon, tacos, fries (they're not fries, they are chips, peasants) corn dogs et al.  All designed to be eaten by hand.  

Grumpy?  Cos I'm getting older and the things youngsters do nowadays irritates me to hell!!!  Manners out the window, the only adjective they know begins with an F.

Then again, the older ones in the nylon football shirts and grotty trainers with shorts somewhere between their knees and ankles irritates the hell out of me, as well.  Ignorant ways of speaking to someone from another country just because they don't speak English so they shout louder.  And this damn weather....snowed here this morning and now miserable drizzle. 

(Actually, I'm quite a friendly, easy-going chap who gets on with most people....just like to vent my spleen now and again, especially at the end of the week after dealing with pig ignorant members of the public who think receptionists are fair game for their insults and that they and there problems are more important than anyone else).

Still, back to Spain next week.  I was hoping to be there permanent by now but credit crunch (that's another phrase that gets on my nerves) and crooked lawyers have conspired to put the kibosh on that for the time being. Ho hum.....sitting on my balcony next week with a glass of the old vino tinted should put all this into perspective.  Haven't even got a cat over there to kick like I have here (this is where I get jumped on by the cat lovers on the forum ---------IT WAS A JOKE, HONEST - it's just the missus I kick now and again).

There's so much to take in on this thread that I can hardly remember what we were talking about originally.

Poppyseed, sorry if I have offended you, the "few glasses of vino" was of course an exaggeration, and I understand and respect your point of view. But here's a thought: without foreign visitors to Spain over the last 50 years or so, it would indeed be a very different place. For a start, there wouldn't be so many empty unsold properties littering the landscape, there wouldn't be so many bankrupt construction companies, developers, promotors, estate agents etc. and the corresponding job losses; there wouldn't be so many empty hotels, bars and restaurants and corresponding unemployment in the hospitality sector either. Everyone would still be happily picking their olives and riding their donkeys, and would no doubt be living in blissful ignorance of the troubles plaguing the "developed world". A lot of Spaniards (the ones who haven't profited from the property boom) actually blame foreigners for the fact that their children cannot afford to get a foot on the property ladder, so don't be fooled into thinking that they will be grateful for your input. And I'm still wondering what "reward" Gravitatingsouth is expecting for relocating his "assets" to Spain!

I accept that spending your money here goes some way to supporting local businesses etc., but let's face it, it's not going to make much difference to the bigger (global) picture at the moment. My jumbled thoughts were only intended to question the validity of the suggestion that the UK has "gone to the dogs", and that Spain is somehow so much better. Most of the problems people talk about "escaping" from in the UK, exist in Spain too. It's just that some people don't, or choose not to, see them.

Again, no offence intended to anyone, just thinking aloud, so to speak.

Gravitatingsouth: advice re getting internet providers- any one got the equivalent of wanadoo/orange/bt , how do you go about it.

If you search around the message boards I think you'll find there's been a fair bit of discussion on this topic, but my recommendation is usually to go with Telefónica for a line and ADSL.

I suppose the grass always looks greener but I can assure you it isn't greener here in Spain, property prices here are going south as well, down by around 30% in the last 12 months alone.

 Electric, gas, oil food, water rates, council tax, car tax, eating out etc are all going UP, no free health insurance, not to mention the poor exchange rate you would get now for bringing the £ over into E's. 

If you sell a house in the UK you are normally selling to a british person who NEEDS a house in the UK, if you are selling a house in Spain you would normally be selling to a Brit who would LIKE a house in Spain but unfortunatley a lot of Brits are planning to sell up (if they can) and go back to the UK so who is going to buy all the overpriced homes orginally bought by the Brits? Not the spanish...... I would be very interested to know what your opinion is in 2 years time, I have been here 4 years by the way. Food for thought!

Roberto, you didn't offend me, I just thougt you had missed a  point.  I take on board your obseravations about how Spain might have been without foreign investment and  you may well be right. I suppose only the Spanish can answer that, whether they'd rather be where they were or where they are now, hmm.........Our first purchase in /spain in 1984 was in Torre del Mar on CDS. At that toime it was a small fishing village with few ameneties, they still ploughed the fields next to ur house with oxen,apologies for any spelling mistakes I havbe partaken of more than a couple of glasses of vino, all be it not in Spain! Torre del Mar today is a completely different town, whether thats good or bad depends on your personal ppint of view I su[ppose, butI do think a lot of Spaninards have gained from the 'immigants'

Bugger this, I'll delete it all tomorrow. Have a good weekend everyine!

Regards, Poppuseed

 Hi K.P

You posted

suppose the grass always looks greener but I can assure you it isn't greener here in Spain, property prices here are going south as well, down by around 30% in the last 12 months alone.

 Electric, gas, oil food, water rates, council tax, car tax, eating out etc are all going UP, no free health insurance, not to mention the poor exchange rate you would get now for bringing the £ over into E's. 

If you sell a house in the UK you are normally selling to a british person who NEEDS a house in the UK, if you are selling a house in Spain you would normally be selling to a Brit who would LIKE a house in Spain but unfortunatley a lot of Brits are planning to sell up (if they can) and go back to the UK so who is going to buy all the overpriced homes orginally bought by the Brits? Not the spanish...... I would be very interested to know what your opinion is in 2 years time, I have been here 4 years by the way. Food for thought!

Yep.Have looked through your posting and indeed its food for thought.

Everything you say about prices apply to the U.K also

Those moving back to the U.K have  an opportunity to drop the price if the bought in Euros and probably not selling to a Brit

Properties are not selling here.

Almost everything you have posted could have reverse.

Was the grass greener for you ?

I would be interested to know where the U.K will be in 2 years time . Food For Thought ?

Poppyseed

Hope the hang overs not TOoooo bad

Just Dan

 

we have a fabulous place at hacienda del alamo we dont rent it out gets better every time we visit, absolutely love going there up to 5 times a year.  .. we bought off plan so paid a realistic price and able to have the villa we wanted which for similar was so overpriced at la manga club where my hubby first wanted to purchase.... but

i would never consider in a million years leaving the uk... wherever i travel i always feel relieved 'safe' when i arrive back in the uk. always seems a lot cleaner than any where else..  we have travelled extensively by the way!!

i didnt want our holiday home on the coast line, i wanted to embrace the spanish culture for my daughters sake mostly.. & the local traditional spanish village next to our resort stole my heart immediately.. its very very spanish..

everyones experience in life is different, wherever you live be it spain or uk or wherever....

i dont confess to be any wiser than anyone else, but i have experienced & to this day still experince 'real life myself' & also put back into society so feel i have a valid voice.. 

trust me.. forget foreigners, ellegals government etc... UK is a the nation to live in during these worrying times.  

take away the banks credit cards mortgages finance etc..  we are humans and trust me us BRITS are a charitable nation, most will reach out their hand to you in your hour of need. 

there are people out there all over the world who would love to be 'knee high in debt' & not give a stuff about immigrants etc they would sawp places for a day rather than face the prospect of a fight with a terminal illness

sorry if my sermon was rather unsympathetic, but life is one big gamble and i too am not immune from the credit crunch

Norman,

In your own words:

TechNotApe is not a battle scarred fugitive from a no-go UK and was not "spot on".

goodstitch sussed it and others new it.

He is in fact a welsh entrepreneur/storyteller who has done very well out of the UK.

So well in fact that he has been able to buy two CDS properties and still retain his UK one.

He is so shrewd he buys his petrol in Gibraltar, perhaps other things also.

Hmm!

I assume you are referring to my appearance on 'The Siesta Show' this week? If you did watch it in its entirety you would have realised that I am NOT an Entrepreneur, as if I am why would I be seeking employment? Secondly, I am a little bit offended to be honest, in your remark about me being a 'storyteller' as in most parts of the world that is a so called polite way in calling someone a liar!

Done well out of the UK have I, have I hell!!!!! I had to work hard ALL MY LIFE and all that happened was I paid higher and higher bills in the UK as the quality of life declined. So, my wife and I made a decision to move to Spain, even though we are mortgaged to the hilt as we were in the UK and will have to work more hours for LESS money, at least our quality of life has improved and will continue to do so.

THAT is what our move to Spain is all about..... QUALITY of life... THAT is what had been lost by us in the UK!

If you are happy with your quality of life in the UK then I am really happy for you, however please don't knock people for what you haven't tried yourself! For some the grass is greener on the other side of the bridge, and for those that make the move sometimes it doesn’t work, however at least they had the guts to try and improve their lives.

And as for me being shrewd, I suppose I am, therefore by your own admission that I am a shrewd person, our move to Spain is a shrewd move!

Whether I am a shrewd person or not is immaterial, however I am an educated man which has always done his homework.

And I forgot to add:

Parts of Barnstaple in North Devon ARE now considered no-go areas at night. I won't mention these areas by name but those that live in and around Barnstaple know which areas I am referring to and will tell you the same!

We used to live in Braunton, which is about 7 miles down the road from Barnstaple and is situated right next to the coast. Indeed we were less than a mile away from Braunton Burrows, which is a UNESCO Biosphere reserve, and Saunton Sands. The very popular holiday destinations of Croyde and Woolacombe are just around the corner, with Croyde now on the world stage when it comes to Surfing. However the cost of living in the UK, coupled with the decreasing standard of life meant that we felt a move to Spain was right for us, and we were correct.

This forum is all about Spain, not Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece, Turkey and the USA and all the other countries mentioned. No! It is ALL about Spain and about helping people that have moved to Spain or people who may be thinking about doing so now or in the future or people who have or are about to purchase a holiday home here, or indeed people who just want to holiday here. Yes! It is ALL about Spain and I think perhaps we are missing this with some of the posts, and indeed some of the topics that we see around this forum.

Most of us joined for this very reason, in order to get some help and advice about all things Spanish. And those that have purchased property here, for whatever reason and some that have moved here try and give help and advice, coupled with their own experiences. Hence this is an open forum where we can all discuss such matters and that is why Gravitatingsouth said when he started this thread:

“SO everyone, we ARE NOT STAYING IN THE UK ANY MORE. We have signed on the dotted line to say Hello Spain Goodbye Britain & all Problems British.”

Is that not what we should be discussing in this particular thread, their reasons for what they are doing and why?

I for one congratulate them for facing their problems head on and taking steps to improve their situation and am sure that they will succeed and have a better quality of life.

It is Dan ,it is!

Regards, Poppyseed

Well said, TechNoApe, the thread has been going off topic for a while. My husband & I both thoroughly enjoyed your guest appearance on The Siesta Show on Thursday & I have suggested Justin give you a regular guest spot so we (those who are interested enough, that is ) can learn about your families new life in Spain etc. All our very best to you.

TECHNOAPE

its just as well there is someone like you who remains focused...your  putting the train back on track so to speak!  i get the impression sometimes its more about 'those on here who like the sound of their own voice'  highly likely a little board in life...

TECHNOAPE.

Fine post but then it would coming from Devon .

Please try to ignore some comments which has come from someone with a bitter experience of Spain through his own making.

Its been a great thread a bit like the old times and anyone that comes with the intention of taking it off track and into a slagging match for their own motives,Bugger Off.

My sister moved to Spain about 7 years ago after sailing around Europe for many years.

The only regret is she cant see her Bruv as often as she would like but I pop out for the odd visit.

I  can understand every single one that wants to return to the U.K as they remember what the U.K was like and perhaps not what its becoming.

Still have this thingy in me which says that when the credit crash gets sorted there will be a pent up demand to get out of the U.K and for some reason many consider that Spain in parts is U.K in the Sun with more relaxed and healthy lifestlye is the top choice

Brits move out  with there investments and money while thousands of  ADVJKBKABKL????  to milk the system.Todays Mail says it all regarding the standards people being allowed in and the likes of  TECHNOAPE  and Gravitatings are moving out .

Just Dan