Driving Ban

In a previous thread which I called "Bandits in Green Uniforms" I told the story of how I was caught speeding on the dual carriageway at San Roque and fined €520's.   I paid this ridiculous fine within the 30 day window and after discount it was reduced to €364's which is still a ridiculous amount of money given the way the whole of Spain treats the highway code with utter contempt.  I presumed that was the end of it, but in January I received a letter from Guardia Civil Traffico in Cadiz..  In Spanish of course, so I took it to work in Gibraltar and asked the Spanish speakers to tell me what it was about.  They said it was about my speeding fine but they couldn't make "head nor tail" of the wording as it was very vague.  So, on advice I took it to a company in spain who specialise in dealing with problems with the Spanish authorities for people like myself.  They said the wording was very complicated and vague but as long as I had paid the fine on time I should just ignore it.  In February I received another letter from the same place and identical in every way.  I showed it to my next door neighbour who is Gibraltarian and he said it appeared to be suggesting that from the date of the letter, 11th February, I had 5 days to reply to the letter and Iwas being banned for a month.  I received the letter on the 20th February!!!  I again went back to the company who deal with these problems and after consulting someone they said that I was definitely banned for a month but that I had to go to CADIZ to show them my licence but they were not sure if I would be banned then, or if it goes to court.  How can they fine me, ban me and give me 6 points for one offence?  I was allegedly doing 108KPH in a 50KPH limit on a dual carriageway that is not in a built up area.  I admit I was speeding along with everyone else in 2 lines of traffic but this is ridiculous and totally out of proportion.  Can anyone advise me on what this is really about and if I really have to make a 2 hour journey to Cadiz and what is going to happen.  I can't afford a solicitor and the one who dealt with my house purchase is responsible for me being ripped off for €419's so I can't trust him.  What am I to do.  I commute to Gibraltar every day to work amd my wife is recovering from Ovarian Cancer so I need to be able to drive her to her check-ups in Benalmadena.

orda

so sorry to hear that. Sounds like yet another example of Spanish lack of common sense/justice

Why are things so difficult  and convoluted in Spain?

Perhaps the Costa Advice Bureau that has been featured on Siesta TV could help. Good luck.

http://www.costaadvicebureau.com/

Regards, Poppyseed.

I was banned last year.  That's when I learned that if it's your word against the Guardia you have to prove your innocence. 

Got several letters (in Spanish) that I ignored.  This included the fine, the increased fine including non-payment penalty, and a note saying the provincial Head of Guardia Trafico said he reckoned I should be banned for a month for being so naughty and that silence would be taken as acquiescence.  In this case silence was not responding saying I wanted to contest the penalty in court.  So I took my punishment.  I had to go to my provincial capital (Almeria) and physically hand over my (UK) driving licence. So obviously I had to get  a friend to take me.   Good news (sic) was that the ban is for a calendar month and I got a choice of the next month or the one following.  But had to get a friend to take me to collect my licence once the ban expired.

You were done for exceeding the speed limit by 58kph.  I think you'll find that driving at more than 50kph above the limit carries an automatic ban.  Remember they are now jailing people for exceeding 200kph on motorways.  So I think you are done for. 

My advice would be

(a) get someone competent to read your documents (scan and pm me if you wish)

(b) accept the inevitable and make appropriate arrangements

I sympathise with your predicament particularly given your wife's condition.  But you gotta deal with it.

Good luck

Thanks Pepino good advice.  I have already resigned myself to my fate and will be going to Cadiz on Monday.  I paid the fine in full within plenty of time so that is not an issue but nobody seems sure whether they will actually physically take away my licence or whether they just take note of it and warn me what will happen if I get caught driving.  Why did you have to get somebody to drive you to go and pick up your licence after the ban had expired?  Surely if the ban is over the absence of the licence is irrelevant?

Thanks for the offer of checking the documents but I'm not on-line at home and I'm not able to scan at work.  I just get so angry when I see how they drive out here and yet it isn't them that gets done by their own police force.  This morning (and now every morning)I was driving down the same stretch of road where I was caught and I was sticking exactly to the limit, and GUESS WHAT?  I was overtaken by a GUARDIA CIVIL jeep!!!!!

I had to physically hand over my licence.  I didn't want to chance drving without having my licence with me - an offence in itself - if stopped by the Guardia so I got a friend to take me to collect it. 

If you are going on Monday you could find that your ban will run from the 1st to 31st of May.  You may well be better off going on 30 April - with a friend to drive you back.

Dear All,

a timely warning of how it really is, no £60 fines here then for foreigners.

Puts the "dream" into perspective then, or is that too negative Justin???

Will I be deleted yet again?????

Regards

Norman

The "dream" turned in to a nightmare a long time ago.  In my first week here I was attacked and mugged in La Linea, the second week I broke my ankle, I have paid €3000's to import MY OWN car, I have had €419's stolen from my bank account, I have been fined €520's and banned for speeding, I was abused by the owners in a restaurant in Duqessa, I had my car serviced in Gibraltar and they failed to put any oil in it and so on, and so on.

But if we hadn't come here we would' have found too late that my wife had cancer and I would have lost her.  We wouldn't have made some new and great friends in, and out, of work.  So whatever, it's still better to be here.  But Spain you need to stop bleeding us dry and biting the hand that feeds you, OR ELSE face the backlash i.e people packing up and going home and/or not holidaying here.  There are plenty more places with sunshine.  You've been warned.

No offence, Goodstich and Poppyseed, but I don't think this is specific to Spain!!

Orda was caught speeding at over double the speed limit on a dual carriageway - even in the UK on a motorway I believe you would be fined, banned and receive points!

In fact, if Pepino is correct, and you can just about choose which month to take your ban, I would think Spain favours the UK!!

The most "convoluted" thing about Orda's situation I think is that he wasn't advised of the total penalty at the time and thought that the fine was the end of it.

Even in Dubai the speeding fines now start at about GBP 100 upwards for just being 20kph over the limit - and that's even on a five-lane highway (no pedestrians) with a speed limit of 120kph!!  And yes, we also get points and possible ban.

Edited to say:  And Orda I know how you feel - I've also been passed here by police, not only exceeding the speed limit, but after tailgating me and on their mobile at the time!!  As frustrating as it is, I'm not tempted to copy them!!

Dear orda,

every sympathy with your situation, driving in Spain is not easy for anyone who hates "tail-gateing", you have to be brave to resist them pushing you along when both lanes are fully occupied.

Is it the case of foreigners being pick on on the Costas.

I remember being fined for not stopping at a totally deserted unlit dual carriageway junction at night when doing a right turn. I had of course come to an effective halt but not quite a precise halt, I was still slightly rolling. The police car observing me was partially hidden and unlit. and the sign did say stop and a slight roll does not qualify.

Good luck and hope all goes well with you and the wife and thank you for telling it like it is, that is the true value of the forum, not the silly spin that so frequently gets posted. Justin please note!

Regards

Norman 

Hi Norman, long time no speak,

Most of us on EOS DO say it as it is!

We are NOT saying that life is a dream, far from it, however my wife and I HAVE realised our dream of living in the sun.

But I suppose a very, very small minority, and for them it may be, seem to think life is a dream.

Anyway, back on topic.

Hi Orda, 

Sorry to hear about what happened to you, but it does also happen to the Spanish and other nationalities out here in Spain that you pay a fine and that should be that, however find that they later end up in trouble because the 'paper trail' has not been followed and it ends up appearing that you haven't paid the fine, so court procedures follow.

Did you get a receipt that shows you paid the fine within the 30 day limit?

Either way, as poppyseed said, contact Costa Advice Bureau and see if they can help.

I think the moral of Orda's ordeal is not to ignore any letters you receive and make sure you get some advice on how to deal with them.

And that's the beauty of this forum, it is sad to here of people's dilemmas, however by sharing our experiences at least we all help each other not to fall foul of the same thing.

So I just want to say a big 'Thank you' to Orda for sharing this with us.

Hi TechNoApe,

Yes I paid the fine well in time at Bank Santander and have a receipt to prove it.  The fine was €520's but with discount for paying in time it was reduced to €364's.  When I got the first letter from them I went to Castle's in Sabinillas and they told me to ignore it as I had paid the fine.  Everyone I showed the letter to said how complicated and technical the wording of the letter was which is why no one was sure whether I had been, or was due to be, banned.  I know I'm in Spain, and not being able to speak Spanish fully is due to my ignorance, but when they stopped me they knew I was British so why couldn't the letter have been written so that it was all made clear to me?  I'm not squeeling about being caught speeding but I just think the punishment doesn't fit the crime considering the other outrages I see on the road every day. 

Unless I read it wrong Costa Advice Bureau want about €90's plus tax to help with a problem and I think I've spent enough.  Anyway, I'm going to Cadiz on Monday to face my fate so, as long as I can keep my BIG GOB shut and get home without telling the Guardia Civil Traffico where to stick their fine, I'll let you know what happens.

"as long as I can keep my BIG GOB shut and get home without telling the Guardia Civil Traffico where to stick their fine"

LOL

I would be the same as you!

Just a thought, you got a receipt from your bank that you paid the fine, but I bet you anything that the Guardia Civil would NOT have got any notification from your bank that it had been paid.

Hmm! I just wonder if you should have sent a copy of the receipt to Cadiz in order to prove you paid it, in fact make sure you take that receipt with you and show them it 1st. May help, may not, but worth a try.

Costa Advice Bureau charge a yearly subscription of 95€ plus IVA and having spoken to them myself about a few things to do with my Urb. and also re-registering my car, I shall be taking up their services. Might be worth a quick call to them on Monday before you go.

Anyway, good luck and hope you get things sorted out.

Hi orda,

Sorry about your bad experiences in Spain . Just to follow on re Costa Advice, I'm sure that Antonio said anyone could ring them if and when they found they had a problem, without having joined beforehand. the phone number was displayed on the screen too.

We will be joining them WHEN we get to Spain full time. Good Luck with the Traffico.

BPD

Thanks everybody for all the advice, comments and sympathy.  As far as the speeding goes that's all my own fault and it won't be happening again but it's good to know I'm not alone.  Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

TechNoApe, I think you'll find that the sanction is a fine AND a ban and that when the fine was paid has no influence on the ban.  That was my experience anyway :-(

But good luck tomorrow Orda.

No disrespect meant here, to Orda or anybody else, but I can't understand why everyone keeps stating about Orda's "problems in Spain" as if it couldn't happen anywhere else!  I think it should be kept in perspective here.

Orda, as he admits, was caught speeding at over double the speed limit.  In most countries that have anything close to traffic "legislation" in place (and I only put it like that because here in Dubai you can have a toddler fall out of the back door of your car whilst speeding up the highway - and be killed, obviously -  and it would be the toddler's fault!!  And it's happened!), that would carry a pretty hefty penalty.

If you, as a foreigner, were caught speeding at over double the imposed limit in the UK, and you were a Spaniard, I doubt very much whether they would issue your summons to appear in Court (as would happen  - and most likely banned) in Spanish or made any concession at all in that regard!

Orda, I wish you well in clarifying the situation - because that, I believe, has been the biggest dilemma, in that the process hasn't been made clear to you.

Orda - did they let you go?? I hope it wasnt too distressful for you. Let us know what happened when you are able.

Before I tell you what happened when I went to Cadiz I must just answer Pitby's point about the letter not being in English.   The letter was so technical and complicated that even those who spoke fluent Spanish didn't understand it.  My other point is that there are a huge number of British in Spain contributing a lot of money to the system so a dual translation wouldn't have been too much to ask would it?  In the UK interpreters are provided free of charge for ALL immigrants.

Anyway, yesterday me, my wife and my trusty Tom Tom set out for Cadiz.  The Tom Tom took us right to the door of the Ministry for the Interior and we managed to park right outside.  We went in the building and the Guard on duty pointed us to the receptionist who gave us a numbered ticket and told us to go upstairs.  We joined a small queue and were seen by a nice young lady within 5 minutes.   I put the letter in front of her and she looked at it, and then at me, and then back at the letter and shrugged her shoulders as if to say what happens next.  I rang Katie at Castles and she spoke to the girl.  Katie then explained that, yes I was banned for a month but, and get this, I could choose the days I want to be banned e.g. I could have the first 15 days in June and the first 15 days in July or the whole of August, etc.  When I said could I have last November she wasn't amused so I chose the whole of May.  She took a note of my driving licence number and gave me it back, and I signed a form to say I would not drive from the 1st of May to the 31st of May and that was it.  It was all so quick, uncomplicated and casual as to be laughable.  I was on my best behaviour and we drove back to Manilva wondering what the hell was that all about.  And that's that folks!

Wow, amazing. I wonder what would have happened if you hadnt gone to surrender the license? Do they come knocking on the door?

The month will pass quickly and you will be back behind the wheel in no time.