Dictatorship or what??

Our urbansiation committe has just been informed by the administrator that they are in place purely to support the Presidenta. They have been told not to disagree or argue against her wishes. If they disagree then they have been told to resign.

The residents thought we lived in a democracy and I for one can not believe that the Presidenta has unquestionable powers. The committee must have some responsibility to change her opinions?

Is this how other ubanisations are run? or are us Brits paranoid about democracy?

Come on you presidents out there give us your advice - the AGM is coming up! - if we ever get a date for it!!

You, as a Community have rights to either change administrator or President. Very clear in the Horizontal Law. I am pasting some information on this:

http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=vii-governing-bodies-developments&hl=en_GB

http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=oposition-in-the-general-meeting-minutes&hl=en_GB

http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=meeting-and-votes-community-of-owners&hl=en_GB

http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=horizontal-property-act-iv-obligations-of-the-community-of-owners&hl=en_GB

http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=horizontal-property-act-iii-obligations-of-the-owner&hl=en_GB

http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=horizontal-property-law-ii-internal-rules-of-the-community&hl=en_GB

http://www.costaluzlawyers.es/index.php?page=horizontal-property-law-i&hl=en_GB

I am also pasting here a link to the Horizontal Property Act itself: http://www2.icamalaga.es/funcio/legales/coleg6/lphingles.htm

Hope this helps.

Maria

Not a dictatorship, no, but someone has to be ultimately in charge, and legally, that is the president. The commitee (which is optional anyway) is indeed answerable to the president and is there to assist him/her in the running of the community. Unquestionable power though? Well, not really, since a budget is agreed (democratically) during the agm and the president must work within the confines of that budget. They must also adhere to the Horizontal Law (which Maria has added a link to, in English).

Ultimately, if any members of the community are unhappy with the way the president runs things, then they have the opportunity to propose a new one at the agm. Fancy a go?

WELL SAID DENNIS

I am certain that the President works for Procumasa she is as incompetent

Look forward to the AGM

I will bring the Rope

Roberto

I can see the concept working in an established urbanisation, but ours is very new and there is a continual battle against developers who are trying to fob us off with a development that is incomplete and they claim to have no money to rectify the faults that exist at the moment.

So if the presidenta decides that she does not need to keep the community informed of what is going on then we have no option but to get rid of her!

If say, she has a whim no matter how rediculous, as long as it does not cost anything, then the urbanisation has no option but to go along with it.

It seems from LAM1963's post that you feel that the president is in cohoots with the developer. Is she related to them somehow? How was she "elected"? In new developments, it's quite normal for the developer to install an administrator of their choice (often a sister company) to serve their own ends, but the president must be elcted by the owners - and of course, must be an owner as well.

if the presidenta decides that she does not need to keep the community informed of what is going on then we have no option but to get rid of her! - quite right, and that is your right too. At the forthcoming agm, you can vote for a replacement. Normally the president serves for one year at a time, but if 25% or more of the owners can get together they can force an egm to be convened, and request that the president is replaced. This, of course, is assuming there's someone else willing to do it.

If say, she has a whim no matter how rediculous, as long as it does not cost anything, then the urbanisation has no option but to go along with it. - well, yes, if it doesn't cost anything, I suppose so. That is, after all, how any "democracy" works. The only democratic bit really is that you, the people, elected her. But like any democratically elected leader, once in power, there's not a whole lot the people can do if they do the job badly or break election promises, except get rid of them at the next available opportunity. And any stupid decisions made during her regime, can always be reversed by the next one.

At the last AGM there were several candidates for President and the one with the most proxy votes got elected - so clearly there was a difference in suitability for the post.

I suppose in our naievety we thought that having a committe then they would be able to have a logical discussion and express different opinions and thereby achieve a consensus.

the one with the most proxy votes got elected - so clearly there was a difference in suitability for the post.

Don't really understand what you mean by this, are you saying the candidates with fewer votes were more suitable? Apparently the majority don't agree. You didn't answer my question about whether she is related to the developer somehow, but I'm guessing that many of those proxy votes were representing unsold units that still belong to the developer? Can't really offer any more without a bit more info.

I'll try and explain:

No the Presidenta is not 'related' to the developer, I think LAM1963 was meaning she is just as ineffective as the developer.

At last years AGM the usual call for nominations were made at the meeting. One candidate had done a lot of canvassing and had amassed a lot of proxy votes (we have a very large absentee population). Other candidates put themselves foreward at the meeting, some of them, I my opinion, more suitable. Obviously the proxy voters did not know of the existence of these candidates in advance. Nor were the other candidates aware of the canvassing that had taken place.

I think the points I'm trying to make are that firstly the nomination process does not give the absentee owners any information about candidates in advance and the proxy voting system is unrelaible when people do not  know what they are giving their proxy for.

The upshot of it all that we ended up with a presidenta who does not appear to represent the residents as well as we expected.

Ah, now I undestand - sorry for being slow.

One way to overcome the problem, then, would be to request nominations / volunteers for the president well in advance of the agm, and to include details of all candidates in the agenda that is sent out prior to the agm. That way, everyone should be aware of the options and be able to submit their proxy accordingly. The proxy vote can specify how the member wishes to vote on individual issues - it doesn't just have to be a case of giving your vote to someone else to do as they please with.

It may be too late for this year's agm, but at least you could propose introducing such a system for next year.

I understand the Dictator has resigned.

"Not a dictatorship, no, but someone has to be ultimately in charge, and legally, that is the president."

This is not exactly true, even if unfortunately this is what ends up happening in practice.

The OWNERS are in charge.

They make all the decisions at the AGM by majority vote based upon the quotas.

The person appointed President is merely the Community's legal representative. (if one is needed)

The administrator implements the OWNERS decisions.

Don't allow anyone else (especially a person designated President) tell you otherwise.

Not wanting to get into an argument albodd but legally there does have to be a President  and at the end of the day the President is also an owner.

The Administrator works and is paid for by the Community of Owners and it is  the President who makes sure that their wishes are carried out which at times is a thankless task but one that has to be done by someone.

My comments about the dictatorship came about because our elected president was not listening to the residents or the committee. She has an agenda that appears to be at odds with the desires of the community.

The Administrator has made it clear that he will only communicate with the President.

At a recent meeting, not an AGM or EGM, a show of hands indicated the lack of confidence in the President. Strangely a week later, and 11 months 3 weeks into her 'reign of office', we had our first email from her!

if the presidenta decides that she does not need to keep the community informed of what is going on then we have no option but to get rid of her! - quite right, and that is your right too. At the forthcoming agm, you can vote for a replacement. Normally the president serves for one year at a time, but if 25% or more of the owners can get together they can force an egm to be convened, and request that the president is replaced. This, of course, is assuming there's someone else willing to do it.

As above, 25% of you can call an EGM if you want to pass a formal resolution to replace an Administrator you think is unhelpful.

The above was perfect advice.

recently I was "named and shamed" as not paying my community fees so I arranged a meeting for when i was next out there to sepak with the administrators, I offered to pay annually in advance and asked what the reduction would be and was told nil!

It appears that we have to vote a reduction on at the agm for a discount for those paying annually in advance-overall it seems a fair system in that one can vote a president on / off etc etc

Not wanting to get into an argument albodd but legally there does have to be a President  and at the end of the day the President is also an owner.

The Administrator works and is paid for by the Community of Owners and it is  the President who makes sure that their wishes are carried out which at times is a thankless task but one that has to be done by someone.

I did not say there didn't need to be a President and I didn't say the President didn't need to be an owner. I therefore don't understand your comments about not wanting to get into an argument over this.

As previously stated, the President is merely the Community's legal representative. You may wish to refer to Article 13 of the LPH.

As I suggested, what happens in practice is often something else because a Community may have its own unique statutes, or in many, many, cases the Owners (can be due to apathy or can be due to being in a different location etc etc) let the "President" take over who does exactly what they want.......the "Dictatorship" previously referred to.

I do also agree you will find many, many, Presidents work selflessly and tirelessly without due pats on the back/financial compensation.

I offered to pay annually in advance and asked what the reduction would be and was told nil!

It appears that we have to vote a reduction on at the agm for a discount for those paying annually in advance

Obvious really. The budget for the community is set at the agm, and is for the coming year, so unless a system of discounts is agreed upon at that point, it is out of the question to give discounts to anyone who tries to haggle over their fees! Nice try, though!