What happened in Manilva

morerosado

yes, it would probably somehow come round to being the bulls fault!!

If everyone shared tinto's attitude, i'm afraid the dreadful mutilation of young girls would not have been exposed, that alone cruelty to animals.  How could that ever be left alone because '' that 's their culture''''

Justice should always be based on right or wrong not outdated cruelty (or corruption for that matter) that has no place in a civalised society.

Why do people keep saying  "well this is Spain"  in regards to cruelty to animals.  An animal that relies on a human being to look after it, feed it,  and be kind to it, because it is not wild, which if it were would normally fend for itself most of the time very successfully, without the interference of humans. Animal cruelty is actually a global problem that many people all over the world are trying to stop.  I remember reading an article about a zoo can't remember the country but I think it was in asia, where visitors could buy live chickens and throw them to the lions, also the lions looked like skin and bone because maybe that was their only source of food. There is also a woman who has horses over here and keeps them in appauling conditions, she isn't spanish she is English, and I think she was fined in the UK also. I also used to watch a program filmed in the USA about animal cruelty I could go on and on so please don't defend animal cruelty as culture.

Regards kathy

I am beginning to fear that most of the people who are posting here are veggies. Justin 1. the bulls horns are like human nails they have no feeling (unless like nails you go into the quick) 2. As with foxhunting in the UK people who wanted the country life did not like the country culture so they  got Mr. Blair and Mr.Brown to have it banned, but it now looks like the next government are going to have the ban overturned.

P.S. believe it or not I am an animal lover who used to shoot and hunt and gave both up because I did not believe in killing unless it was to eat or to save other species, but I will stand up for the right of people to do in their country what is lawful and not be overrun by a small minority.

Sorry tinto ...........just can't grasp the concept of being an animal lover that hunts and shoots.  Computer say no.  As for foxhunting - why not hunt a human for fun, especially if it's only for the thirll of the chase, not the barbaric ripping apart of a defenceless, cornered, terrified breathing body.   As for the bulls horns argument......well that's ok then.......  being tied up with no escape and with firewworks on your head is nothing at all because the horns have no feeling (I assume you mean no nerves to feel pain), unless you dig too deep of course- ouch.  And the public beating, well it's only an animal so that's ok.

No I'm not a veggie, not a vegan, but I do have a brain and the power of rational thought.  Oh silly me - isn't that what's supposed to differentiate us from the animal kingdom.

Sorry Jane you obviously don't read posts right through. I said that I used to shoot and hunt and although don't, still would given the circumstances that I have already given. As for foxhunting, I concede some people do it for fun (these people are the main reason I gave it up) but their money is needed to maintain the hunts (and yes you will probably call it blood money) and the hunts are really necessary to curtail the fox population.

tinto

that is just not true in my experience. I've always thought  thats a lie put forward to try and defend fox hunting. If it's any consolation hunts don't tend to kill that many foxes, many are chased and lost. I think more are are killed by game keepers protecting game birds, and again using pretty grim methods. I'm a gamekeepers son, so saw what went on. Part of my job as a young lad was to fill in any holes a fox might use when reaching their den while being chased by hounds. Foxes were also fetched out of trees for the hounds to deal with. It might well be the country way, but it's clearly cruel and wrong. I think the horses, the clothes, the dogs etc and the boxing day meet in particular is a lovely old tradition if it didn't involve the hideous suffering. Drag hunting using a human must surely be the way forward as a comprimise and a lesson to children on  banning cruel sports.

Sorry to have to disagree with you Goodstick the hounds are required find and flush out the foxes. Where I would agree is when this has happened they should then be shot where possible and not still hunted. Since hunting was banned there has been a large rise in the fox population and also more and more foxes living in towns, only a matter of time before a cull is called for and what the people in towns want the people in towns usually get. As for the boxing day tradition I could do without that these are mainly the people as I said that are there for the fun and not for the practicalities.

Also some good comments on the Manilva Life website about this topic.

Thanks tinto, however, I assure you that I can read very well, I did read your post in full and fully understood the content. My comments stand. 

 There will always be people who will defend barbaric practices.  We are all different have have different opinions, but that does not make it right.     

Jane I will always defend peoples right to do things that are within the law and legal. It is called democracy.

 This is a very emotive subject and one close to my heart.

When i lived in the UK, I actively camapaigned against fox hunting and also animal cruelty as a whole.

Fox hunting has nothing to do with any control of vermin etc etc.... it's just an excuse for posh people to dress up and chase harmless animals across a field in the name of fun......and the debate could rage on and on, to me sport is defined on equal terms..

I was actually really suprised when it was banned.

After being in Spain for sometime now i have not lost the passion for anything associated with animal cruelty and i have found that most of my Spanish friends actually agree, the bullfights that usually take place across this municipality and province were banned this year,this was caused by protest from the Spanish both Locally and nationally.

But.... and there is always a but.......

I hold the opinion that it is down to the Spanish and the Spanish alone to force change within there own country, i will agree and disagree with certain things but will not force my opinions on another culture or country where i have chosen to make my home, i knew of the traditions and hoped some of them would change and gladly they have, but, i did not arrive here and roll my sleeves up and say "right,lets sort this lot out then".

Before you choose to reside in any country you should research the actual culture and laws rather than just how close the beach is ...etc etc...

You should take the good with the bad and if things change with progress then all the better.

I know many of you live in the UK and are so used to PC and health and safety issues but the bigger picture is this.............

85% of the indiginous population of the UK that expressed a wish to leave to start a new life abroad be it Australia,Spain etc.... do so because they are sick and tired of other nationalities,cultures,religions etc...coming to the country and immediately wishing to change the system and enforce laws that comply to their old way of life..........The UK is currently battling to avoid the court system implementing both British law and Sharia law to compensate for everyone's wishes and beliefs.

The Australian prime Minister was slaughtered by the developed world when he made a speech staing that "This is Austarlia,we have certain way of doing things here...if you like it, you are welcome....if you don't then turn around....!"

I am not talking about the legal system,corruption etc...i am talking about the culture and tradition.

Remeber Spain is very old fashioned in certain aspects of life but these archaic notions of entertainment will run their course as most of the population want things to change

tinto

On foxes we will have to agree to differ. The point of the thread is to point out  that any cruelty to animals is just wrong, and pleasure for cruelty is indeed pretty sick. I hope we can at least agree on that , whatever the tradtions of the country concerned?

I think it is easy to judge the morals of a country by looking at their animal rights record.

Spain has an appaling record in this area, one of the worst in Europe. It tells you something about the inner soul of a nation, their morals, ethics and attitude to suffering of any kind.

I know there are Spanish nationals who wish to put an end to animal cruelty, but they haven't made any in-roads so far, which tells you something about their priorities.

georgia

good for you for standing up against cruelty (I knew there must be something we would agree on )

I know what you are saying about a country's traditions but I also feel when you know in your heart something is clearly wrong, I think you owe it to those wronged to fight their corner where ever you are?, not just ignore it because it's not your country of birth.  If more people did that, perhaps cruelty and poor justice/corruption for that matter would come to an end in Spain sooner rather than later?

 Goodstich...

Believe it or not i actually agree with  you on 90% of what you have said acrooss the board on the forum.

If it a legal issue that affects foreigners as myself living here then i am 100% behind marches, demonstrations, pettions etc etc...after all if it creates justice and cleans up the industry at the same time then we are all winners.

My point was that i think certain issues are down to certain people to resolve, last year i wandered up to our local bullring as we had friends over and they were intrigued....we were greeted by a river of blood as the doors opened and the horses came out.....there was  a small group of locals outside who didn't want the event staged, i said to them that i was on their side and respected their stand.

I do not feel in a position to intefere for reasons stated in my last post.

I knew Bullfighting existed when i came here.

It's just the way i feel after seeing the way my home country was destroyed (in my opinion of course)

Maybe we could start some new sports like chasing Aifos directors across a field with a pack of hungry dogs, shouting "Tally ho!!" or  judges even......although i would imagine the weight of the brown envelopes would handicap them tooo much......!

"Fox hunting has nothing to do with any control of vermin etc etc.... it's just an excuse for posh people to dress up and chase harmless animals across a field in the name of fun"

Georgia next time you are in the UK in the spring and early summer I invite you to see just what "harmless" creatures foxes are killing not just to survive but killing for killings sake and as I said since hunting has been banned it is getting worse. The light on the horizon is that the next government looks as if it will repeal the ban or at least have a democratic vote on it. As far as bullfighting is concerned I could not agree more, do not like it and never will but as you say it is up to the Spanish people themselves to sort that out, not outsiders who try to impose their culture in another country as is happening in the UK.

 Tinto,

I would imagine you are talikng about foxes encroaching on mans habitat and destroying livestock?

If we ignore the usual argument of selective eveolution and what came first, the chick..... sorry the fox or the man then i suppose the general argument is that they could be shot the same as a dog can be shot for worrying sheep.

You will never ever convince me that a group of pompous,inbred, snooty mummies little soldier types bouncing up and down smearing blood on their childrens faces outside the village hostelry sippy shampers and tearing across the countryside half cut shouting "Tally ho rupert" has anything to do with keeping the fox population down.

It was banned because it is barabric and serves no purpose other than giving some posh people an excuse to meet up and compare the lengthof silver spoon protruding from any orifice............

I do agree with your other statement though.......

During my time living in the Outer Hebrides, I was coersed into the job of Island Mink Catcher.

The job entailed setting humane traps on the side of a loch, or just above the high tide mark on a sea shore.

The mink had been released from a farm by animal activists in the 1980's and consequently the mink went about desimating the rare ground nesting birds, Hens, small cats and puppies. They even ate the salmon that I was allowed to poach!

The local council gave me 2 ways to despach the trapped Mink. The first was by lethal injection, the other was to lower the traps into the water and drown them.

I preferred the injection as it was fast and there was little stress for the animal, however, after nearly losing my fingers several times, I progressed to the drowning method as there was no need to put my fingers inside the traps.

I gave up the job as soon as possible as I was getting too emotional about having to kill such a magnificent animal.

I checked my traps 3 time a day as I didn't like the thought of them being stuck inside of them for 48 hrs which was the recommended inspection time.

I lost many of my own Hens to the Mink and saw the last Corncrake family killed by them, but I could never feel good about catching and destroying them.

My replacement was a ruddy faced Hebridean who was niether Humane, or for that matter Human!

I often wondered, without any conclusions if the Mink would have been better off had I not had such a weak concience!

Dear All,

I was standing quite still next to the pigs paddocks the other day, hose in hand watering my row of willow whips being grown to form a screen to the pig food shelter. As I watered I was looking across the paddocks at some rabbits running about, looking down for a moment I saw another spectator watching, it was a young fox squatting on his haunches very near me enjoying the scene also. When I finished and coiled up he wandered off away from me not greatly concerned at all.

There seems to be a lot of both about and the foxes very bold, more interested in taking chickens and ducks rather than the bother of chasing rabbits. They are a growing nuisance in this area, perhaps I should carry a gun.

I hesitate to tell others what to do but those that follow the hunt seem to be a very varied lot and all enjoying themselves, they don't slaughter my chickens and ducks to enjoy themselves.

The foxes on the other hand seem to be like the rats and mice, chew part of a hundred bars of chocolate rather than finish one.

Something should be done.

Regards

Norman

 Gillespie,

You should have rounded up some upper class or aristocracy and chased them around the glens for a while on horses.

It may not of solved the problem  but apparently is "rather dashing good fun once you catch the little blighters".................do they have anyone called Rupert in the hebrides?