smoking banned inside at end of the year!

Much as I agree with you Goddstich on all other issues I do disagree with you on the smoking issue.

I choose not to go to non smoking bars. I go where I am wanted, where I can smoke, that is my choice & my money.

Everywhere I go in Spain, there is a choice, some bars allow smoking & so they get my money. Those that don't, & that is fine, it their choice, don't! That is called freedom of choice, & that applies to smokers as much as non smokers.

I quite understand that some people don't like smoking, OK, go then to a bar that isn't a smoking bar, what is the problem?

This makes interesting reading but peronally I think smoking is a terribel habit.  I tried it myself as a teenager as you do and just as well I thought it was nasty but I think what put me off most was seeing my parents smoke so heavily as a child and having to put up with the horrible smell of smoke around the house and on clothes etc. and seeing how they got if they didn't have a fag in their hand.

Unfortunately througout my teenage years and twenties I had to watch my father get sicker and sicker over the years because of effects of cigarettes ie. smokers cough, difficulty breathing, asthma and he finally died in 2006 from emphysema even though he gave up the habit 10 years before that.  Obviously for him it was 10 years too late.

I think people are irresponsible to themselves and their friends/family to deny the effects smoking will have on their health and to tell themselves that they actually enjoy doing it when they know the risks and the future they have to look forward to I think is awful.  My father didn't get any medical treatment for his condition because I think he knew he was never going to be cured and maybe he felt guilty about what he had done to his body and I really think that maybe people shouldn't receive medical treatment for conditions connected to smoking which are obviously self inflicted.  He was only 64 when he died and I think that he and a lot of people now live for years in denial to themselves about what they are doing to their bodies.

I for one will jump for joy when it is banned inside all public areas here in Spain 'cos I think it's disgusting that I have to breath in other peoples' smoke and think people really need a wake up call because many of them are obviously incapable of taking in and accepting the health information they are given about cigarettes so the choice needs to be taken away for them and I think that for many this ban will do that.

Luckily most of my friends are now also non-smokers and the last few who were clinging onto it for one reason or another are starting to realise that it's no longer worth the expense, health risks and being social outcasts etc.

In fact my best friend has recently stopped probably at the same place that Paul one of the previous posters went to using something called a Bioresonance machine (the company they used was called stop smoking in costa blanca I think) and I went with her to make sure she really went through with it!  Luckily she went from smoking over 40 a day to none at all and it only took 1 hour.  It was amazing and obviously pretty effective because after 2 months or so she is still off the cigarettes and now that I tell her it's gonna be banned completely I can't see her every going back to it.  

I really don't understand why more people don't make the effort to stop and continue telling themselves there is no problem with it and it's their choice etc.  I think really they are in denial and it actually makes me quite angry.  My mother still chews Nicotine gum and has been doing so for the past 5 years but next time she comes to visit I am determined to get her off Nicotine once and for all hopefully using the same method as my friend did.

rob6578

I can see where you, georgia and most addicts are coming from with regards to choice, but if you saw someone self harming an external part of their body, you would want to help them in some way wouldn't you?, despite it being their 'choice', especially if that harm was likely to lead to something life threatening. As I mentioned in a previous post, I have sadly spent quite alot of time visiting a very sick relative in a cancer ward recently, and when I see kids smoking it sickens me to know that through their 'choice' they stand a fair chance of ruining their life and ending up in state I saw some cancer victims in hospital, and probably doing much the same to friends and family?. 

We all have the choice, but is that a good enough excuse for not choosing the choice that you know full well will improve your health and anyone else's who is is influenced or comes in to contact with cancerous smoke? 

J Turner

sorry to hear you had to learn the hard way, I think we all tried fags as teenagers and we have to work out right and wrong for ourself. I wish it was considered 'uncool' by kids, and regognised as the filthy expensive addiction it can become.   I know how you feel regarding family history, having recently watched someone very close die of cancer.

Bottom line, smoking kills, so yes you have freedom of choice to kill yourself. Of course you do.

But when it's others that have to pick up the pieces from shattered lives ruined by the effects of smoking (and they are not pleasant having witnessed a close family member die of lung cancer related to smoking, to witness his regret based on the realities of this evil weed decimating his relatively young life by believing that it would never happen to him, and coming to terms with the harsh reality of being denied the priviledge to watch and share his future life with his family and wonderful grandchildren, it's only then that you realise that this is nothing to do with freedom of choice, but everything to do with facing up to the fact that you are being incredibly selfish by potentially killling yourself (from choice) in full view and knowledge of those closest to you. 

The Freedom of Choice argument hides the undeniable fact that you are partaking of a well researched self inflicted killing machine.

So carry on with the habit if you will, but don't pretend to yoursefl that it's based on any other reasons other  than purely selfish motives.

J Turner, your Dad's medical history is identical to my Dad's and my Mum died of lung cancer, they were both aged 71.  My husband smoked 60 a day and 10 years ago he stopped, with no help, he was like a bear with a sore head but being the determined and stubborn b****r he is he did it and has never looked back, and although his lung capacity has been reduced he thinks he'd be dead now if he hadn't stopped. I was a bit slower of the mark  giving up as I smoked very little, but the smoking ban in the UK has certainly helped me finally stop, it is much easier to stop smoking when the places you can smoke are restricted reducing the temptation (I stopped smoking in the house when OH stopped to help him in his quest) . I am now happily a non smoker and certainly feel better for it.

But, if smokers want to go to smoking bars who am I to say they shouldn't.? And they should receive medical treatment as they have contributed a fortune in the tax paid on cigarettes, unlike the drug addicts who get treatment.  I do wonder why so many young people start to smoke nowadays, perhaps there needs to be more education about the damage it can do.

It's worth the pain to give up, there are the financial savings, the health benefits and the convenience of not having to check you've got enough fags in! Give it a go.

ads said

''So carry on with the habit if you will, but don't pretend to yoursefl that it's based on any other reasons other  than purely selfish motives.''

I feel that's indeed the bottom line ads, well said!!

With the greatest respect Goodstich & others: I am an adult & quite capable of making my own decisions & I choose to smoke! Terrible I know but shock horror, I like it!

I don't care what other people do, it is their choice. I believe in live & let live. My choice happens to be legal, & very important to every government through the taxes I & other smokers pay.

The UK would be in even greater trouble if smoking is banned. How would the treasury replace the 11 billion in tax paid by smokers every year? Smoking related problems cost the Uk NHS 2.5 billion per year, so who is subsidising whom?

I quite understand & respect your point of view, please respect mine.

In Spain we all have a choice,no one has to go into a bar that allows smoking unless you really want to.

I believe in live & let live.

That's the problem unfortunately, you may not live........ but at least you would go down coughing.

Seriously though it is an informed choice at the end of the day, but I think those who have witnessed the devastating effects firsthand almost feel compelled to pass on the message, especially to youngsters who have their whole lives in front of them.

Don't mean to show disrespect, merely to communicate the awful realities.

Dear me, can you please use the search facility?  This subject has been done to death (no pun intended) several times.  In fact, the first time it came up I was still a smoker so that must be some years ago, now.  Think every argument (on both sides) has been given, debated and discussed ad nauseum.  Non-smoker, ex-smokers and smokers all gave their (sometimes heated) views which are simply being repeated.  (And although I've stopped, you can still come and sit on my patio and have a puff, if you wish.  Might even give you a beer or two to go with it).

Smoking is a disgraceful habit but one I happen to enjoy in the comfort of my own surroundings. It may surprise many to know that even smokers detest other peoples fumes in their faces.

However I am perplexed as to why smokers always get the blame for other peoples diseases.

I grew up in an era where smoking was very common and at gatherings everyone would be surrounded by a sea of fog. This nasty habit being thrust upon those in the forces fighting against Hitler et al. From November onwards for a few months London could be in the grip of pea souper smogs. Very unhealthy but banning smoke from household chimneys and factories soon overcame this.

Of course in those days few people had those horrendous polutants called cars, exhaust fumes from which I have seen leave a child choking, or travelled constantly by air.

Now I appreciate I am deemed, among many other adjectives, to be selfish but in my opinion so are those who needlessly use poluting transport. Any of you with the must have 4/4  or in households where there are more cars than bedrooms?

Smoking , drug taking, daily tipples of alcohol or unnecessary road or air travel is neither a health benefit for the consumer or anyone who is subjected from the polutants thereof .

Like Rob I respect others who may desire to drink or partake in illegal habits which change peoples personalities, usually not for the better, or those who constantly forget what legs are for but will only accept stones thrown by those whose way of life is beyond reproach.

Next

rob6578

I know you are a reasonable person, and I realise that most smokers would probably say to me ''who the hell do you think you are, telling me what I should or shouldn't do''  and I understand that and  yes, each to their own I guess, I do happen to care what other people do though, because I have witnessed first hand the devastation it causes. I could respect your wish to smoke if it wasn't so damaging to you or anyone your smoke comes in to contact with. As for bringing it down to taxes, you really need to see someone close to you dying of a smoking related illness and then put a price on it?.  As ads said, 'any justification is purely selfish'...... it certainly won't help anyone else, with the exception of the makers and the tax man!

ads

'to communicate the awful realities'  is what has been tried by the warnings on the packets, posters ect,  but I wonder how well that works?, in particular to kids?. If I was that age and saw a message saying ''this could kill you'' or ''this could seriously damage your health'', I would probably think ''wow this looks dangerous, I'll give this a go, who gives a stuff what parents and farty old doctors/teachers say?'' 

How do we get the message across without the pain of first hand experience?, or do we just live and let cough???

floella

you had better accept those stones thrown by me then, as though i've led far from a perfect life, nothing I have ever done or would do would compare to the suffering i've seen caused by fags. Your choice?

How I wish goodstich that smoking had been deemed as evil as drug taking and alcohol abuse is today because then I would never had started.

Fortunately although having been surrounded by smokers particularly my early years no one succumbed to lung disease and for this reason alone I protest that although none can disagree that smoking is bad there are other more powerful polutants in our atmosphere nowadays. 

I would never deny the right for an alcoholic or a drug abuser  to have medical treatment unlike a  comment on this thread re  refusing smokers medical treatment.

Smoking is bad for ME but seems to me people have been brainwashed by Gov.depts and smokers are having to take the blame for all ills the depth of feeling involved.

Anyway enough of me and my bad habits  .Any of the anti's going to answer my question and own up about the polution they might be inflicting on me when I am sitting outside of a cafe partaking of water or coffee with their choice of and number of cars in a household 

Personally I would have thought that the wrinkles and lines around the mouth along with the grey skin would be enough to put any woman off smoking for life, not to mention the yellow finger nails, the smell of stale tobacco from clothes and hair, not to mention the bad breath and yellow teeth, not a pretty picture I paint but one so true of many smokers.   This alone would be enough to put anyone off smoking for life.  Dare I start on the state of the lungs?

Whereas the smell of rancid puke, red eyes, slurring of words, a penchant to punch anyone that disagrees with you or the wont to stick a glass in someones face because of an excess of alcohol is highly attractive?

How many smokers do you know have grey skin?  How many smokers have wrinkles compared with those who sit in the sun and become leathery do you know?  Nicotine stains?  Maybe in the 50s or 60s but, surely, filters have put an end to this.  Bad breath?  Halitosis is not confined to smokers and have met many non-smokers with utterly disgusting breath.  Listorene is your best friend.  

And talk about priggishness!!  Damned non-smokers (and ex-smokers can be the worst).  Oldish Brit the other week when a Spanish chap lit up in the street (in the open air, FGS) saying "Let's move across the road to get away from the smoke".  MY GOD.  Wish I could get out of the exhaust fumes from you disgusting car drivers!!!!!

Having give up some time ago, I hope I am still broad-minded enough not to allow this petty thing to take over my life like some.  I do object to smoking in restaurants (and even did when I did smoke) but go and pick a non-smoking pub if that is what you want.  Leave those who do smoke (or don't mind it) to go to the smoking pubs.

Come on, folks, it's all been said before (over and over and over).  Dragging up old news, old topics etc does no-one any good.  Those who smoke will stop when they want to, those who don't smoke.......tough.  When you stop driving your cars and polluting the atmosphere far more than any smoker has ever done, then I will listen to you.

(Fact:  Driving 5 miles to a supermarket and back again will put more pollution in the atmosphere than a 20 a day smoker will do in an entire lifetime.  Don't know if that's true but I got it off the internet and we all know how reliable those statistics are).

So get off your high horses and rejoin the human race.  Surely there are more things in life to worry about (and if there isn't, then I really feel sorry for you).

I wasn't aware that this was a competition debating which pollutant was worse than any other ....... it's about smoking.

We're not just talking of bad habits here. Smoking is an undeniable killer. End of. (Sorry for the boring repetition but there's denial going on here).

I trust it's not the latter.

I understand the tax paid by smokers on cigarettes is more than they take out in health care thereby leaving surplus  millions they've paid to treat other patients.

Regards, Poppyseed

Someone mentioned earlier that those who don't want to be in a smokey environment should go to the non-smoking bars, coffee shops and restaurants.

In Spain herein lies the problem.  How many non-smoking establishments do you know?

We have a couple in our area here but the non-smoking sections are tiny and you would be lucky to get a table. 

I was so annoyed about this once that I even contemplated opening up my own non-smoking coffee shop so that I could enjoy a smoke free breakfast when I liked.

I don't have a problem with people smoking but I do have a problem when my kids are inhaling other people's smoke.  It's really not fair on them.

I am looking forward to the proper smoking ban being implemented, I just hope it's respected by everyone.

Justin

some interesting points thrown forward here. Yes there are other pollutants, harder drugs, yes alchohol is dangerous in large quantities, yes fags bring in money from tax.

Perhaps the only way to educate would be to take school age kids around a cancer ward and to the one's who can stomach it say, '' now do you think smoking's ok, because it's your choice?'', then have a few words with a surgeon and ask him about the dangers of smoking compared to moderate alcohol intake or car/industrial pollutants etc. The answer is pretty shocking and conclusive.

We are working on car pollution, industrial pollution etc, but they are evils we need on a day to day basis. Smoking like any recreational drug is an evil we could do without tomorrow with no ill effects, in fact quite the opposite!  Call it addiction, denial, ignorance, but we all have the ability choose to see it for what it is?

Don't need to go that far goodstich .Just take people to where Alison&Simon live. The description of  these women sounded very scary to me

Have yet to meet a British smoker who has not agreed smoking is best banned in public places or around young people  but not sure the Spanish see this as a problem because unlike UK the air here is a trillion times less poluted than in UK. 

Appreciate this is not a competion for what is the worst polutant but anyone been to London recently? Admittedly did notice about 20 people smoking outside Victoria station but will never ever believe that they were the cause of the choking smell that hung heavy in the atmosphere. So wonder what the cause of that could be?  Later I read in a tabloid that in London thousands die every year from this invisible killer.  Which is caused by ????????????

Over the last 40 years rolls have reversed for every smoker now there is now 100 +who drive so forgoodness sake folks wake up before it is too late and realise that traffic is now the NO.1 passive killer of people,