Los Alcazares

 

C.P. EDIFICIO DON JUAN FASE 1

                                               fuengirola

 Fuengirola,8 de julio 2008.

 

 Por la presente, y de acuerdo con el Artículo 16 de la LPH, como Presidente, le convoco a la Junta General Extraordinaria que tendrá lugar en EL GARAJE DEL BLOQUE 6 el 26 de julio de 2008, a las 10:30 horas en primera convocatoria y a las 11:00 horas en segunda, bajo el siguiente ORDEN DEL DÍA:

 1.       Lectura del acta anterior.

2.       Aprobación si procede de la liquidación judicial de vecinos deudores.

3.       Aprobación si procede de las normas reguladoras en concepto de morosidad.

a.             Incremento del 15% como recargo de impagados trimestrales.

b.             Posibilidad de apoderamiento a la Junta Directiva  en concepto de liquidación judicial de morosos, a fin de evitar la necesidad de convocatoria General cada vez que se desee liquidar la deuda de un comunero.

4.       Información respecto a las acciones judiciales, tanto civiles como penales interpuestas contra ARROHABITATGE por diversos conceptos.

5.       Asuntos varios, ruegos y preguntas

__________________________________________________

 

   Hereby, under Art.16 LPH, I summon the EXTRAORDINARY GENERAL MEETING, "RESIDENCIAL DON JUAN 1" that will  take place in block 6 garage, july 26^th, 2008 at 10:30 for the first call shall commence and for the second at 11:00 with the following:

 

AGENDA

1. Last Minute Reading.
2. Approval of indebted neighbors comes judicial claims
3. Approval of  internal rules for dilatoriness

 a) increase 15% surcharge of quarterly non-payments

b) Possibility of empowering to the Board of directors for judicial liquidation of weak people, in order to avoid the necessity of General call whenever it is desired to claim the debt of a coproprietor

 4.Information with respect to the legal actions, as much civil as penal interposed against       ARROHABITATGE by diverse concepts.

 5.Several subjects, requests and questions.

 

  

SEGÚN LA LPH, LOS DEUDORES NO TENDRÁN DERECHO A VOTO. (VER EL DORSO)

 

UNDER LAW, THE DEBTORS WILL HAVE NOT RIGTH TO VOTE. (BACK PAGE)

 

 

 

 

DELEGACIÓN/PROXY

 

D._________________________________________________________________________________________

 

como propietario del inmueble / Owner of the house ___________________ Sito en Residencial Don Juan Fase 1 /of Residencial Don Juan.  A través del presente escrito concede autorización a / I grant to authorization to

D._________________________________________________________________________________________ para la asistencia y votación en la Junta de esta comunidad, a celebrar el día 26 de julio / for the attendance and voting in the 2008, july 26th Meeting.

 

 

 

 

 

BLOQUE	INMUEBLE			TITULAR		IMPORTE
1	BAJO B (*)	PARKING	xxxxxxx			631,65 €
1	BAJO D(*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			895,43 €
1	TERCERO B	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			553,73 €
1	TERCERO-C	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			553,73 €
1	ATICO -A (*)		ARROHABITATGE SA			758,19 €
1		TRASTERO 1-2-3	ARROHABITATGE SA			56,83 €
2	PRIMERO-C					643,14 €
2	ATICO A (*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			687,87 €
2	ATICO- B (*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			675,11 €
2		TRASTERO 3-4	ARROHABITATGE SA			56,83 €
3	SEMSOT C	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			402,83 €
3	PRIMERO D(*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			992,57 €
3	SEGUNDO A	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			623,15 €
3	SEGUNDO C(*)	PARKING				853,73 €
3	SEGUNDO D	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			623,15 €
3	TERCERO A(*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			631,04 €
3	TERCERO B(*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			700,63 €
3		TARSTERO 1-2-3-5	ARROHABITATGE SA			56,83 €
4	SEM SOT C(*)	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			1.005,16 €
4	BAJO A (*)	PARKING				784,39 €
4	BAJO B(*)	PARKING				631,65 €
4	PRIMERO- C	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			553,73 €
4	SEGUNDO-B (*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			585,59 €
	SEGUNDO-C (*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			585,29 €
4	SEGUNDO D(*)	PARKING				923,15 €
4	TERCERO-A(*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			687,87 €
	TERCERO B(*)	PARKING				1.103,61 €
4		TRASTERO1,2,3,4	ARROHABITATGE SA			56,83 €
5	BAJO B	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			331,65 €
5	SEGUNDO A	PARKING				923,15 €
5	TERCERO A	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			687,87 €
5	TERCERO-B	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			700,63 €
5		TRASTERO 5	ARROHABITATGE SA			56,83 €
6	SEM SOT B (*)	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			1.061,99 €
6	BAJO A(*)	PARKING				784,39 €
6	BAJO B(*)	PARKING				631,65 €
6	BAJO C	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			631,65 €
6	BAJO E (*)	PARKING				574,82 €
6	PRIMERO C(*)	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			853,73 €
6	TERCERO A(*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			687,87 €
6	TERCERO B(*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			700,63 €
6		TARSTERO1,2,3,5	ARROHABITATGE SA			56,83 €
7	SEM SOT A	PARKING				1.339,59 €
7	SEM SOT B	PARKING				978,67 €
7	SEM SOT D	PARKING				1.339,59 €
7	BAJO D	PARKING				895,43 €
7	BAJO F	PARKING				784,39 €
7	PRIMERO A (*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			649,51 €
	PRIMERO-C(*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			585,59 €
7	SEGUNDO-B(*)	PARKING				578,23 €
7	ATICO A (*)	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			687,87 €
7		TARSTERO1,2,3,4,5	ARROHABITATGE SA			50,29 €
8	SEM SOT A(*)	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			1.064,34 €
8	SEM SOT D	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			1.064,34 €
8	BAJO B(*)	PARKING				633,08 €
8	SEGUNDO A(*)	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			924,58 €
8	SEGUNDO-B(*)	PARKING				855,16 €
8	SEGUNDO D	PARKING				924,58 €
8	ATICO A(*)	PARKING				465,52 €
8		PARKING				58,26 €
8		TRASTERO2,5				58,26 €
9	BAJO A (*)	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			616,83 €
9	BAJO F	PARKING				772,33 €
9	PRIMERO-D	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			753,08 €
9	SEGUNDO-A	PARKING				924,99 €
9	SEGUNDO B	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			555,57 €
9	SEGUNDO-C	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			555,57 €
9	SEGUNDO D	PARKING				`924,99
9		TRASTERO1,2,5				58,67 €
10	SEMSOT A	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			1.061,16 €
10	SEM SOT B	PARKING	xxxxxxxx			1.000,24 €
10	BAJO C	PARKING				859,47 €
10	SEGUNDO A	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			602,47 €
10	TERCERO A	PARKING	ARROHABITATGE SA			673,85 €
10		SEMI SOTANO TRAST 1,2				50,06 €
10		SOT.TRASTERO2,3,4,6,7				7,00 €

 

Forget the duplicate thread that was a hiccup of the forum software.

I got this agenda yesterday night in my mailbox with the request to put it on the notice boards. I was shocked by the bad English, the late communication which made it next to impossible to change things and the exact wording of the agenda as I didn't expect it to be that way. Besides the procedure had flaws as the notice board is not sufficient to give proper notice.

After frantic discussions this morning between Xavier, Ana, Irma and me we made sure that Irma would personally deliver a letter (signed for receipt) to Arrohabitatge, the main target of our meeting. They would also try to send as much as possible to the Spanish addresses (either in Don Juan or elsewhere)  and send the agenda by e-mail. 

About the English: I proposed to add the following informal message at the end of the text in the notice boards:
--------  
An informal word from the vice-president:

The English translation is not very good and in places even ridiculous. The Spanish version however is correct.

What is meant to say that we want to take legal action against debtors BUT only if they are really in debt and it’s not due to misunderstandings or errors in bookkeeping.

A 15% surcharge every quarter for non payers is proposed and in point 3B it is not the intention to go to court against weak people, but it’s proposed that the committee doesn’t need to call a general meeting to go to court for debtors [not WEAK] in the future.

I hope this helps,

Max

-------------
 The conditional phrase is really in the Spanish version but easily overlooked. The weak people is just a stupid mistake as moroso can mean slow (not weak) but only as an adjective. As a noun it just means debtor. I left out the rest as although it’s not proper English it’s understandable and won’t get people mad.

The fact that it was not the agenda I expected was because I had misunderstood the lawyer. I thought he wanted to speed up our main court case againt the developer while he meant that we wanted to go to court against our debtors (mainly Arrohabitatge) and to speed up that process we needed the EGM.

There will no doubt be question so just fire them off. Proxies can be given by using the form above. Signage is not needed so they can be done by internet. If you want me to vote for you I ask you to do that by PM.

P.S. The real list sent out has names where I put xxxxx. I assumed you wouldn't want your name on the internet.

First question (by PM, but feel free to post in this topic):

The list of debtors is shorter than the last one. Did we make progress? Yes, as in some people finally payed their bills or sorted out miscommunications with the administrator. No, as in we have more debtors but decide to only list the people with a serious deficit. People who just missed a month etc. are not on the list.

If you are confused by the word parking in one column. It means that you are also behind on your parking fees, but the main amount is of course for the apartment itself.

 

I hope that many who have not been able to attend previous meetings will be able, and take the time, to attend this one if for no other reason than there is nothing else quite like it.

As it is an EGM no decision can be made on matters not on the agenda. However there is a time at the end when other matters can be raised and debated.

I will not be able to attend this meeting – I flew out specially for the last 2 and fares at short notice make travelling out for a meeting in July to expensive. I will be voting by proxy and if you are unable to be there I should encourage you to do so as well. Theoretically Arrohabitage cannot vote but there is always uncertainty about what they will do. Max will accept proxies (remember to get his proper name if you want to have him vote for you). Alternatively you can appoint anyone else you know who is attending including Ms. Irma Vinyes from GICS (just send the completed proxy form to gics@hotmail.com )

There is also a form at the bottom of the circular letter to authorise GICS to send you all future correspondence by e-mail only. This will save the Community (you and I) a lot of money and speed up communication. So please take the time to fill in and return this form as well.

1) Apart from Arrohabitatge, have the people that we know are in debt been contacted by phone or registered post (normal post, we have no way of knowing they received it).
2) Is it possible for it to be written into the community rules that every owner must have a direct debit set up for all payments.
3) How many owners of apartments are there that we have no names or contact details for, and how much do they owe.
4) How will it be possible to get the money owed from these unknown owners.
5) Why is the community fee not taken out on the same date every month. This would give more stability and confidence to owners, because at the moment we don't know what to expect and when.
6) Will loss of interest be charged to all these owners that have not paid.
7) Maybe a standard typed letter in Spanish and English with the apartment number, block number, amount owed and who to contact could be put under the door of every apartment, so the owner cannot say they did not receive it.
8) Will all of these people behind with their community fees also be charged the extra costs we all have been charged for the court case.
9) I think those who continue to ignore their payments should be named and shamed and legal action taken against them. Why should the rest of us pay for their benefit.

That should keep you busy.

Westport

There are people not on this list who owed over 700 euros last week end when i was there and how can they be left off and they are residents bye irene

  Answers to Westport:


       1)       Apart from Arrohabitatge, have the people that we know are in debt been contacted by phone or registered post (normal post, we have no way of knowing they received it).

They have been contacted through all means the Spanish law demands. If people didn’t notify the administrator of a different Spanish address they have had their accounts overview in their mail box in Don Juan as is the rule.

2) Is it possible for it to be written into the community rules that every owner must have a direct debit set up for all payments.

No, it doesn’t matter how you pay as long as you do it.

3) How many owners of apartments are there that we have no names or contact details for, and how much do they owe.

The major debtors you can easily spot by looking at the last debtors list for the meeting. If instead of xxxxxx there is no name we don’t know.

4) How will it be possible to get the money owed from these unknown owners.
There are ways, but they are expensive. We first want to target Arrohabitatge and some major well known debtors.

5) Why is the community fee not taken out on the same date every month. This would give more stability and confidence to owners, because at the moment we don't know what to expect and when.

You can expect regular fees taken out of your account if you are currently in the clear. The exact date differs but that’s also due to international banking conventions. If you know your monthly fee you will know that it will be withdrawn that month. You can object to it and have it automatically reversed (in case of direct deposit) within 21 days of the transaction.

 6) Will loss of interest be charged to all these owners that have not paid.

So far we just want 15% extra so that will cover the interest

7) Maybe a standard typed letter in Spanish and English with the apartment number, block number, amount owed and who to contact could be put under the door of every apartment, so the owner cannot say they did not receive it.

Physically difficult and not necessary. Spanish law makes clear how to contact owners.

8) Will all of these people behind with their community fees also be charged the extra costs we all have been charged for the court case.

Yes

9) I think those who continue to ignore their payments should be named and shamed and legal action taken against them. Why should the rest of us pay for their benefit.
That’s exactly what the EGM is about

That should keep you busy.

I was already quite busy so don’t really need extra work.

Westport

Answer to Irene on question:
"There are people not on this list who owed over 700 euros last week end when i was there and how can they be left off and they are residents bye irene"

I don't know who you refer to but someone in your block who is residential is still on the list for a huge amount of money. If you mean someone else I don't know. It's possible decided to pay after seeing the earlier notice in the hall ways or sorted out some communication issues.

Just a quick reminder that we still need more proxy votes.

You can PM me and I will send you a simple form with all the correct names etc. Or you can use the administrator but be aware that the email address is often misquoted: ít's gigs@hotmail.ES (so definitely no hotmail.com).

The list of debtors attached to the agenda adds up to 50.000 Euro's so it's quite important that we either sort it out now or are allowed to court. Without the missing money we can no longer pay the maintenance company so pools will have to be closed, we can't for necessary plants so the place won't look as attractive and even the cleaning will be affected as we can't afford that from our current income.

Necessary improvements are totally blocked as we simply don't get the money in. The budget is right, but we are missing almost 50% of our projected income due to debtors.

So please attend that meeting or give a proxy to someone you trust, but don't ignore it.

B rgds,

Max

What do I need to do to give you my proxy vote?
Thanks
Alan

Just send me a PM if you want to give me a proxy vote. I will respond with the simple form and details needed.
Only if you want to give the adminstrator your proxy use the gics@hotmail.es.

Know I sound stupid now MAX... but what is a PM?

PM = private message click on the blue writting at the bootom left of any post by Max which reads "send private message to Max"

Hi there is 3 emails to send to the admin office they are gigs@hotmail.eson this site gics@hotmail.es  and gigs@hotmail.com  what do we use thanks irene

Irene, I made the 1st mistake sorry! - not sure about the 2nd.......the correct address is gics@hotmail.es

3 emails on this site on 18 july 21 july and 22 july all diferent thanks irene

Hi, Could Somebody explain the ugency for such short notice, having a similar deficit in January we then added a security contract to the outgoings and did nothing at this stage, so why could not the meeting have been  held in September to ensure participation by the community, the timing leaves neigbours wanting to attend unable to, especially those having to travel at this time of year with the high cost of flights. Also members of the community not notified except if you by chance happen to be in Spain and receive notification or read EOS, no information on the Adminstrators Site. Taking into account the AGM due to be in January 2009 can a preliminary date NOW be set and then confirmed in October, to ensure involvement of the community.
         Technical report although we have an written overview, where is the background to this report, is it in the hands of the community?
         Summary Cost Estimate beingin the hands of the committee since April, have the "errors" been notified and questioned.
                   1. 2 entries for miscellanous
                   2. the % totals only total 94.51%
                   3.Estimated Fee -Project on Concrete Slopes - includes Total Cost (including painting plus other items which may not be required under the project Heading.)
         Financial Statement
                  1. Why has the basic subject headings changed, could the statement not be prepared in spreadsheet format, making it easy to compare and update.
                  2. Where are pool and cleaning materials listed
                  3. Balance of reserve fund 
                  4.Extra Gardening, Plants - does this include the 2000€ which was given, if not what was purchased?
        Ken
       

                   

Hi, 
I'm a bit in a hurry so I can't go into all these very detailed questions. I can however answer the main question. Why have the EGM on such short notice. I wrote it before so I copy paste it:

"Next we decided on an extraordinary meeting. To speed up the lawsuit (a different way through the legal system) we need owners to confirm to it instead of just the president asking for it. We want to do it as fast as possible and like I said earlier on EOS flights in August are just as expensive so we provisionally decided on 25th of July"

The difference with January is that the amount in debt is much higher now. The reason we couldn't postpone it until september is that we are really running out of money. On the last overview you all got you can see that we have a debt with our maintenance company. We just didn't have the money to pay their monthly fee!

The technical report is the only thing we have except for a much more detailed account of the costs involved which was too lengthy to translate or even to send out. The report is meant for a judge, not for a builder so it has to be readable and understandable. If needs be our expert will be asked to testify in court and he can explain the details.

B rgds,

Max

I forgot to say that lots of the Spanish are over in July and August and a substantial part of the foreigners so there will be more people able to attend than in September. Doesn't really matter as we would be broke in September, but from the point of view of maximum community participation I'm pretty sure there will be more people who are able to attend even without booking an extra flight. The question is: do they turn up or go the beach but for democracy that doesn't matter. They had the chance.

This message was last edited by max! on 7/25/2008.

I see that I forgot another question which is relatively easy to answer. The question are people properly informed of the upcoming meeting. 
I assume they are. Letters were sent to all people who gave the required Spanish postal address to the administrator. If people failed to do so the law says that then a letter to the actual apartment is sufficient. In addition emails were sent out if they were know by the administrator and an anouncement is made on the notice boards on every block. 
Lastly we made sure it was on eyeofspain. 

I would estimate the number of non-Spanish people who were not informed by these collectivee means at about 10 out of 60+ people using their apartment. The rest are investors who are not interested or Spanish speaking people who got letters at their home address if they notified the administrator. The rest of the Spanish are now using the apartment intensively so they know about it as well. 
I would say that we reached about 90% of the people who are actually using their apartment. That's a pretty good score.

Hi All,

And now for the results of the EGN we go to Spain….

There were around 35 people of which at least 12 non-Spanish which I consider a good result for an EGM on short notice. Most were couples so the total votes will be around 20-25. I carried 16 proxies and Hernan had two so the real total will be around forty which is pretty good.

We agreed to all three voting points, we only made a change to the 15% surcharge. Legally we can’t have more than 20% per year surcharge so we lowered it to 5% per quarter (which if cumulative is still more than 20% but we will sort that out later). All these points were unanimous agreed upon.

From point four on it was just an  information session were voting was not allowed. The subjects were the usual: the 300E question, the road, water, phone lines and mail delivery. This session was lengthy and contained some new info, but for the most the close readers of EOS already know this. I will only mention the new points here as the rest is already reported.

Maximo explained more about the actual issues there are with the road and the railway company. Although the details are interesting they don’t really matter for us as the end result is still the same: no proper road there. 
We will claim 250000 Euro compensation from Arrohabitatge. We can't demand a road as they can't help it, but our apartment are worth less without a proper road to the beach and the train and these were advertised but not delivered.

Some other mentioned issues. We can’t get post delivered because we have no street numbers and the path + the road between the buildings is private. Only the main road where the garbage bins are is public. We are negotiating for months about a solution and we booked some progress. Originally they wanted 200 mailboxes at the beginning of the road up (at the end of the dirt road). We now got them so far that it can be placed somewhere between block 2 and 1. That saves us a steep trip, but is still a nuisance as we have to spend about 4000E for a mailbox which conform to their regulations.

The water situation is difficult because the company which have to take over (Gestaqua) can’t reach us from their nearest distribution point because they would have to cross the railway tunnel and that is blocked by Renfe. Alternatives are available (f.i. from Higueron) but that’s much more expensive and they are not willing to invest that amount of money.

Phone lines: identical. Again the tunnel blocks entrance to us, but possibly they can get a line from the other end of the valley/river.

Of course there was the usual issue. Arrohabitatge send us even more wild claims. For water bills while we now know that they themselves never paid Acosol! They withheld the 300 E for 42 people for compensation and they put that in writing. We will sue them for that money!

Another wild claim is that we illegally opened and used the water pump (more or less true but necessary) and that we manipulated the system so that they didn't get any water for their gardens in phase II. This is not true as we didn't do that on purpose, but our technicians will look into it. It was ironic because Arrohabitatge deliberately closes of our water for the gardens at night. Not by high tech means but by Tico who sneaks in on our premises and turns down tabs and resets the computer. We caught him many times, but he still does it.

We also reported on our last visit to the town hall. If you remember well we were promised a new meeting with the counselor for infrastructure regarding our pressing water problem. At that meeting last Thursday she made excuses for getting us into this situation and she promised never to give off a license with so many defects and problems still existing. (No good news for phase II I’m afraid). She was more forthcoming than in the earlier meetings and really took charge of our issues. From calling to Arrohabitatge that they had to deliver the technical drawings of the waterpump within 24 hour to her office to pressing Acosol that they won’t cut us of the water until a proper solution is found. There will be more meetings and we hope to realize a temporary (one way only) tarmac road along the railway. Now that we have her full support we will try to make the most out of it.

At the meeting there was a ‘translator’. Irma picked up a waiter somewhere who spoke some English, but his English failed him and he didn’t understand the topics discussed. I tried to help by giving summaries of all the issues and the longwinded speeches of Maximo and I think that worked reasonably well. I’m still of the opinion that the administrator in a mixed languages environment should provide proper translations and ample opportunity for the non Spanish to have their say and have it translated back. Now it was just a very basic service to the non Spanish but they couldn’t actively participate in discussions as usually the chair of the meeting (officially Hernan, but again delegated to Maximo) just went on and didn’t wait for the translations let alone for possible reactions.

After the meeting several foreigners managed to discuss and solve their payment issues with Irma and Maximo so I guess the meeting itself earned us some money.

Feel free to ask questions.

B rgds,

Max