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21 Feb 2009 12:00 AM by billandann Star rating in BENALMADENA. 51 forum posts Send private message

We live in Benalmadena on the Costa Del Sol and we are going to drive up to Trampolin Hills on Monday (23rd Feb) to see and find out first hand as much as we can about what is going on. If any of you out there have any questions you want us to ask or anything specific you want us to find out, please let us know and we will do whatever we can to help. We will be starting our trip at midday on Monday so you have 'til then to post any queries. Heres hoping we find out something positive.

Regards to all

Bill and Ann

 




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21 Feb 2009 4:19 PM by ogo Star rating in Norway. 125 forum posts Send private message

 

Hi folk's - I am still here following all of your more or less sensible discussions – thanks for all the contribution from El-Trampolin: At least you increase the entertainment value (no offence guys)
 
I have been thinking of what the best strategy would be to get myself out of this situation – and, to be clear, I am talking about the Trampolin Hills Project
 
I am sorry to say, but in my mind THERE IS NO EASY WAY OUT of this.
 
I personally do not think that anyone will get their money back just like that – since all the money has been placed into the current status of the project. The value is in the ground – the planning – the cranes – the landscaping – the drawings – the application and permission – the show houses – etc. GT does not have any money in the bank – and why should they – They have started the project believing that this would go smooth – before all of our misfortune happened.
 
Assumptions’ and facts:
 -Today we all have contracts and have paid a sum of money to GT
 -I believe that GT is balancing on a line with regards to funding of the project or bankruptcy.
 
There are some alternatives that I can see today:
 
1. GT go bust: We - the customers - would then "own the project” - the only value we have left then is our contracts and the money that has been put into the work performed at the site
 
2. GT manage to stay alive and build the Trampolin Hills project (either as planned or a reduced/staged sized development)
 
3. GT sells the whole project to someone else that is willing to develop and have the solidity to do so
 
 
What is the most likely scenario?? I would not put money on either one of these cases – and I do not know what the best case would be for us
 
If they go bust - we would then need to join forces to find another developer to take on the responsibility of building the houses - I guess that we then must renegotiate the contracts that we possess with the new developer, but we would then have secured the value of the land and what has been invested in the project.  
 
If GT builds the project – we have our contracts and would get our houses/apartments more or less as we have been promised – 3 years later than promised, but still
 
My biggest concern today is that GT don’t get funding for building the TH project – (mistrust from the banks – suspicions of a unhealthy financial situation in GT – potential customers driving the company into bankruptcy through trials – difficult market situation in general – etc.)
 
I guess GT need to do something to secure the funding; maybe governmental security to get the wheel turning in the Spanish economy, maybe large investment-companies would be willing to take the risk…Maybe we need to wait until the market situation turns upwards in order for GT (or others) to find funding for the project
Yes we are all suffering from today’s market crisis, but we are in the same situation as many many others – in other areas also.
 
I am not happy about the situation, as all of you – but I still stand tall and accept that this is my own fault and my own responsibility – and this is the way I personally feel the financial crisis. –howling and crying for help,  blaming anyone and everyone else, outspoken frustration, does not help me, but I appreciate that some of us have a need to get out some frustration from time to time – even if it does not help the overall picture – and that is the upside of this forum J
 
No easy way: Trust me – I am equally frustrated as you regarding the situation – and I truly believe that this frustration is shared by the employees (and also the owner) of GT – I have decided not to “fund” the Spanish law system – since the only way any of us can get our money back is if the contract is sold to someone else – and I think that is difficult (or even impossible) to find a buyer until the project is on its way and the market turns back up. I have also seen that there is possible to sell property in Spain also today – given that the price is low enough- but our situation is that we have nothing to sell at the moment – other than “paper money” with relatively high risk.
 
To the guys in El trampoline and other GT developments –  you have at least a house that is worth something – we only have a piece of paper – but I think we are equally stuck with the situation – I do not think it’s just to take a trial to get the money back and get out -
 I would also like to thank you for sharing your experiences with GT – we in the TH project should try to learn from your experiences and find ways to avoid ending up in the same situation.

In short:
No easy way out – we need to get this building started!!!

Question that could be asked to GT:

1. Do you really think that GT would get funding to start the building  - what is the current situation with regards to funding

2. When do you think that the actual building will start

3. Could you show, to the customers, the approved lisences

4. There has been some documents refering to something called "embargoes" what are these and what does it mean for us?

5. We have seen that you have applied for workers. Is the workforce identified and ready to start building

ALL THE BEST from

OGO

 



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OGO


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21 Feb 2009 5:31 PM by TVJ Star rating in Orpington, Kent. 76 forum posts Send private message

Ogo,

A very well written analysis of the situation at TH and we  totally agree with all that you have written and the questions you have posed.  I hope others will agree that this is no time for pursuing against GT - let's get some answers to the questions and support them in going forward.

On our behalf thank you very much.

Cheers!



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Tracy & Steve Alhambra, Plot 11, Phase 1



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21 Feb 2009 5:49 PM by ROUGHDIAMOND Star rating in Bristol. 88 forum posts Send private message

 

Hey OGO,

 

At last some sense and rational thinking instead of snide comments, handbags and bitching about who has done or not done this that and the other.

 

and not a song title in site.

 

well thought out and well written

 

cheers

Brian 




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22 Feb 2009 1:07 PM by ratassa Star rating. 15 forum posts Send private message

An intelligent summary of the situation at last  that contracts with the ranting and emotive outburts.

Ratassa




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22 Feb 2009 5:25 PM by rob6578 Star rating. 103 forum posts Send private message

ogo: you say that Gt doesn't have any money in the bank & why should they?

Well, ALL of the buyers money should be in a ring fenced account! Real bank guarantees can then be given to prospective buyers. That's the law since 1968.

So where has all the money gone?

You say that the buyers would end up owning the site & all the work that has already been done? Why?

You assume that the company doesn't owe money to other people who 'may' have a prior claim on any assets.




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22 Feb 2009 10:39 PM by ogo Star rating in Norway. 125 forum posts Send private message

Rob: I am just trying to be realistic - analyzing best and worst cases and trying and hoping to find some sort of optimum strategy somwhere in between.

"Well, ALL of the buyers money should be in a ring fenced account! Real bank guarantees can then be given to prospective buyers. That's the law since 1968. "
What law are you referring to - and how have you secured that your money are safe - I do not think they are - but I am guessing - if someone know where they, are please come forward...

"So where has all the money gone?"
My guess is that the money has been spend to get the project to its current state...but nothing would be better than someone proving me wrong

"You say that the buyers would end up owning the site & all the work that has already been done? Why?"
Guessing again - in the event of a GT bankruptsy - we can claim the right to own the site

"You assume that the company doesn't owe money to other people who 'may' have a prior claim on any assets."
I assume a lot of things - and maybe GT has taken loans against other things that makes the contracts wothless in a bankruptsy situation - but then my dear friend we are doomed anyway...

But please - be my guest and try to describe "the best", "the worst" and "the most realistic" outcome of this and try to build a strategy that gets us all out of this with either our money or our propery secured.

Looking forward to your reply!

OGO



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23 Feb 2009 3:33 AM by billandann Star rating in BENALMADENA. 51 forum posts Send private message

I started this thread to get some questions to put to GT, not to start more arguments. Ogo has done his bit. Any more questions anyone?

Regards

Bill and Ann




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23 Feb 2009 6:43 AM by norsoa Star rating. 9 forum posts Send private message

Hi Bill and Ann,

I would like to know if TH are selling anything now and how much there is left to sell?

Norsoa




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23 Feb 2009 8:16 AM by rob6578 Star rating. 103 forum posts Send private message

ogo: You ask what law concerning Bank guarantees: it is known as law 57/68. Passed in 1968 it requires developers of new build property to supply (free to purchasors) a guarantee from a licensed instituation in Spain (Bank or insurance company) that their payments will be returned + 6% interest if the development does not happen.

The majority of guarantees on this development (according to GT in the recent court hearing) have been issued by a Swiss company that is not licensed to issue guarantees in Spain. Of the €65,000,000 taken in deposits, €50,000,000 in guarantees are by the swiss company. Only €15,000,000 in guarantees are by a Spanish company.

If this development doesn't happen there is no legal way to force the Swiss to pay up.

I ask again: where has the money gone? €65,000,000 hasn't been spent on this site.

You suggest another company would step in. Why would they? How would they finance it? There are thousands of unfinished legal developments across Southern Spain. Developments that haven't got the 'baggage' that this one has, & no-one can raise the money to finish those, so why do you think any company would invest here?

you ask what is the best, worst & realistic prospects. I think the best outcombe is buyers who have a BG get their money back. The worst & realistic are the same: the company goes under & there is nothing left for the buyers.

I don't see, even if GT get all the permissions needed that they will be able to raise the money to finish the build. Those buyers who have already paid 50%+ for their property may well be asked to pay again even more. you won't just end up with a property that has dropped in value, you will possibly have a property that has cost you double the original price. That is economic madness.

Any new builder stepping in will start with nothing. GT claim they don't have any money. The deposits have gone. There is nothing to transfer to a new builder.




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23 Feb 2009 10:28 AM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 forum posts Send private message

Rob6578, You've written the most realistic post on this whole thread...the most probable scenario.  Understandably ,many people are in denial of the situation. The Swiss insurance "scam" was known (to some) on Spanish forums, a few years ago.

Definition of denial, (as posted on another threadc
Denial is a defence mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.

I think this is the case for some people who have paid their hard earned cash over  in good faith. Unfortunately, paying a deposit entitles you to the square root of NOTHING. It is  only proof of "an intention to purchase". It is not owned until you complete on the (in this case) the completed property. You'd need to ask a lawyer, but I do not believe there is any entitlement to the land.

 

 

 


 



This message was last edited by Tish on 2/23/2009.


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23 Feb 2009 5:23 PM by ogo Star rating in Norway. 125 forum posts Send private message

I will leave this discussion its not leading anywhere...

 



This message was last edited by ogo on 2/23/2009.

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OGO


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Pages: 1 |
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Previous Threads

deposits - 0 posts
Are we still trying to get our money Back - 19 posts
8.5 % reduction - 18 posts
TRAMPOLIN HILLS CAMPO DEL RIO - 1 posts
DEFINATE LICENSE - 22 posts
WHATS HAPPENING AT 5.30? - 11 posts
A "site" for ALL clients of Trampolin ... El Trampolin, TH and Royal Dreams - 6 posts
PLENERY SESSION FOR TRAMPOLIN HILLS THIS WEEK - 0 posts
latest info 14 January - 57 posts
LATEST INFORMATION - 9 posts
Antonio had put up new news on GT website - 2 posts
new document on trampolin website - 1 posts
End of our hopes and dreams? - 0 posts
GT: Please propose a new solution for the TH project - 14 posts
what's going on - 1 posts
What a shambles - 4 posts
join the MAG --MURCIA ACTION GROUP------- - 18 posts
Article in 'The Costa Calida Informer' - 2 posts
Thank you all - 4 posts
Latest new from La Verdad - 9 posts
New message on grupotrampolin website - 9 posts
Just in case you think you are dealing with a reputable developer! - 2 posts
Upcoming Meeting - 17th November 2008 - 3 posts
I will join you - 2 posts
BAND TOGETHER AND SUE THE MAYOR - 1 posts

12 posts were found:


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