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OK, I am now forced to change philosophy.
Lets get this over with and have our money back with interest and all cost covered for lawyers, travel etc.
The only alternative is that the project moves forward, but I do not think it will happen fast enough, and I am not sure if I would like it to happen at all.
It is unacceptable for a member of the European Union to allow such a farse to go on for years and years. And I am talkong about Spain as a country, and the Spanish system that allows it.
No customer of this project has done anything wrong!
In my mind the Spanish authorities are obliged to prevent such things to happen.
They have legislation, but they do not follow up. - And this is basic rules in a democratic system (read about "separation and fusion of powers" in wikipedia or in other literature
- The separation of powers, also known as trias politica, is a model for the governance of democratic states. The model was first developed in ancient Greece and came into widespread use by the Roman Republic as part of the uncodified Constitution of the Roman Republic. Under this model, the state is divided into branches or estates, each with separate and independent powers and areas of responsibility. The normal division of estates is into an executive, a legislature, and a judiciary.
- The opposite of separation of powers is the fusion of powers, often a feature of parliamentary democracies. In this form, the executive, which often consists of a prime minister and cabinet ("government"), is drawn from the legislature (parliament). This is the principle of responsible government. Although the legislative and executive branches are connected in parliamentary systems, there is often an independent judiciary. Also, the government's role in the parliament does not give them unlimited legislative influence.
If the spanish authorities do nothing, next step i EU!
I can not immagine that this could have happened in any other European country - (in my own country (Norway) no one can build a small dolls house without proper license, and if anyone do, they are stopped before any harm has happened) - and to start aproject in this size without permission...impossible - way out - never - unacceptable - utopia - in any other country - than Spain.
Just for the record, its not the Spanish people I am refering to - its the spanish system - I have seen on the spanish forums as well, it is obvious that they are not proud of their own country regarding this project and the politics, etc.
The Trampolin Hills project has been no secret for the politicians, the Spanish system needs to be scrutinized by the European parlament, they need to change!!!
Togerther : we are many strong customers in this project and we need to stand and act together to push this case upwards in the spanish system and further on to EU level.
The lawyers in Spain representing us, the customers, needs also to unite themselves and push this through the Murcian Court to a national level.
Give me some feedback on this anyone - is this the way to move forward?
OGO
PS.
I have been to Spain and visited Trampolin Hills - scary - deserted ghost city - open doors, broked windows, water dripping inside, no electricity, no water, no people, papers floating everywhere.
I have also seen a lot of unfinished projects - and in my mind these other project will be restarted and finished long before Trampolin Hills...
DS
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OGO
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OK, I support you.
What is the plan to move forward?
I am from Sweden and would like to get in contact with you. I will PM you with my conntact information.
Regards
Norsoa
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Hey all.
Please check out this website - I got it from "Norsoa" thanks to him!
It is something called the European Consumers Center Network.
It gives european citicens assistance in trading across borders.
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/publications/factsheet-ECC-Net_en.pdf
I will certainly contact this network in Norway and I would urge all of you to do the same in your own country.
Whatever we do, it certainly can not harm our case to start something like this.
The more focus the better! This message was last edited by ogo on 06/12/2009.
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OGO
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The English section of the new forum is:
http://foro.afectadostrampolin.com/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=a132ff97d738a119318a231ceac284ae
Translators much needed! Please help!
See also :
http://bftboth.blogspot.com/
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I posted this message to YourEurope representing the European Union:
I talk also on behalf of several UK, Irish, Swedish and Norwegian customers that has bought house/apartement in this project.
The project has been started without proper licenses, without bank guarantees and a lot of other issues that should have made spanish authorities to take action to stop the project.
More than 1800 apartement/houses are sold (to both international and spanish citizens)and the short story is that the project and the builder are now put under administration and liquidation negotiation are ongoing in Murcia. We fear that the money we have paid in are lost.
We, as customers in Spain, need a place in the EU organisation to file a complaint towards the Spanish authorities that allows such a project to get this far without all formalities in place. We feel that a "controlling institution" in spain should have stopped the sale before more than 1800 properties was sold - (the amount we are talking about is more than 50 million € just in upfront payment)
please send me a reply on the e-mail address above or give me a call on the phone to discuss, get more info and give some feedback.
Best Regards
OGO
And i Got this as a reply:
Reply
Dear citizen
I am afraid that despite your difficult situation, the only way to enforce your rights is going before the national courts. I’ll try to explain you why EC law has no competences in this case.
We are talking about what it seems to be a real-state fraud. If the city town hall and the builder sent your houses and properties saying that they were legal, and they are not, (because they didn’t have the proper licences, bank guarantees and other documents), and in addition, the builder has gone bankrupt and they have to be placed under an administration and liquidation procedure, the only way to enforce your rights is to go before the national courts. Only Spanish Criminal Law has competence on it.
In addition to the possibility of making a formal complaint before the national courts, you can address to the Ombudsman. He is competent to supervise the activity of all the
Public Administrations: Central Government Authorities, Autonomous Communities’ Administrations and Local Government. The complaint or request, always in writing and signed, may be presented personally at the Ombudsman’s office or by post, fax or over the Internet, in this case filling in the form that is available on the institution’s web site.
http://www.defensordelpueblo.es/
So my suggestion is that we all have to make a formal compaint to the ombudsmann in Spain
Anyone volounteer to write a proposal to a letter that we all can post to this Ombudsmann???
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OGO
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We are getting more good news every day and the form to fill in as explained is now to be found in the English section of this forum:
http://foro.afectadostrampolin.com/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=a132ff97d738a119318a231ceac284ae
This is important so please do not miss it. Merry Xmas to all.
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dear Zxcvbnm
I find it kind of annoying that you post your promotion to the "new forum" every time someone else is posting an opinion in this forum
Remember there is a lot of us that use this forum and we have a history and are used to post on this site, so please let us continue with that.
No offence - I think what you are trying to do is good, but I would also like this forum to be open as well.
OGO
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OGO
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I must admit Guys, I really do admire your optimism, but the harsh reality is, if you go about this in the above manner, you won't win!
NO CHANCE!
These three man crusades against injustice only ever succeed on the movie screen. This is the real world, in order to have any chance against these gangsters you MUST engage a local (Spanish in this case) solicitor/lawyer to act on your behalf.
OGO, this is not the first time I have advised you to do this, but you have procrastinated and in doing so, wasted away any little hope you have of a refund. You (we) have made a very major mistake in handing over our cash to these crooks, but you don't seem to want to face up to, put your hands up and say............'I f**ked up'. You are very much in denial about this entire project, only now have you semi accepted that it won't happen (just like I advised you over a year ago, when I was 'in the know').
This is indeed 'Property Fraud' on a huge scale and will never, ever be built. But you will discover, contaray to your believes, we are all treated as indvigulals in the Courts. The only thing you three Guys have in common, is you were all duped by Antonio, nothing else. The Plot your name is attached is your's, however it is worthless and useless. Time has long since passed since there was any hope of another builder coming on board to takeover the project. Sue this party, sue that party, just won't wash. Even trying to sue the Spanish Government is a waste of time, they are in considerably worse financial condition that Trampolin Hill.
Lets face it, you (we) had little difficulty handing over a 25k deposit (or whatever the amount might be) to these gangsters, now it's time to get a further 1,500 Euro or so, out of your wallet and invest it with a solicitor. Please take my 'friendly' advice this time as there won't be an next!
Happy Christmas!
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Im very sorry for being "annoying", but since there are alot of Trampolin Hills buyers out there who, allthough they do not all leave comments, actually read this forum and are very worried about the fact that as it stands as of today their houses can not be built, I think it is very important to spread the good news which you would know if you read the posts in the forum I have linked in addition to continuing with your useless complaints and insults, which is that there is a group of Spanish buyers who are WORKING VERY HARD TO THE BENEFIT OF ALL so that our houses maybe can be built and we can all, hopefully and eventually, avoid massive losses. In short:
http://foro.afectadostrampolin.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33
Thank you.
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I think that the time has come to move on. I also think that the lawyers will win your case but that no money will be refunded because there is none left so we are all just throwing good money after bad. Lets face it we have been conned by a very elaborate scam. Even when I went to the council they told me prior to purchase that the plans were in and that all was expected to go ahead.
What more can you do ?
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This is ridiculous.
We have lost thousands, as you say millions if you count us all up. Are we going to leave our hard earned cash with a thief ????
Somebody has to be held accountable...
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http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/2746/lgel-tip-206-steps-if-developer-applies-for-insolvency-status.aspx
Legal tip 206. Steps if developer applies for Insolvency status
05 January 2010 @ 07:55
There are lots and lots of information about this on Eyeonspain, but still I see people who seem not to know what to do if their developer is granted the insolvency protection by a Commercial judge:
A reminder today:
The main aim of an insolvency protection is to try to keep the life of the company. So initially nothing needs to make you think that the apartment will not be finally built or that all to come is disaster. Anyhow...
There are some things you can and you must do:
I) If you have decided to want to cancel your off-plan purchase and have rights to do so, according to Law 57/68, Contract and Consumers Law and related Case Law. You might be under two different circumnstances:
a) You have a Bank Guarantee/ Insurance policy according to Law 57/68. The good new is that: If the premises for its execution exist, you can execute it for the refund of deposit plus legal interests from the Bank or Insurer. No expiration deadlines which may be contained in the Guarantees documents count. Interests are always included, regarding the text of the document. The bad new is that in most of the cases a litigation is needed. Even if you decide to execute the Bank Guarantee, it is also advisable to register the credit before the Judge.
b) You do not have a Bank Guarantee: First step is to registeryour credit before the Commercial judge governing the insolvency situation. There is a deadline of 30 days from last publication of the insolvency granting. You also need to direct a cancellation notice against the developer under administration.
Under this b) situation, if you obtained a favourable Court decission but you were not able to cash your Court decission against the company due to its insolvency, our proposal is to use compensation of damages actions against those who had to secure on the existence of Bank Guarantees/ Insurance Policies and did nothing about it: Civil liability action agsinst the solicitors´ Insurance company and action out of 1.2 of Law 57/68 agsinst the Bank which received deposits.
II) If, on the contrary, you want to keep the contract alive. Once completion deadline arrives, you can start asking the administrator of the company for price reductions due to the delay and stablish a new completion deadline in order to have a new , extended contract. Otherwise, they may claim you are allowing extension for ever. I would also ask for a Bank Guarantee now too if you do not have it. At least you will have this written petition which mat be useful in the future.
Please email us if you have further questions regarding this.
Maria.
www.costaluzlawyers.es
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Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
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'y lo que se ha producido han sido unas amenazas porque al parecer quieren que les paguen un dinero.....han amenazado con un arma de fuego'
'and what has occurred have been some threats because apparently want to pay them money ... threatened with a firearm'
Amazing how quickly the police respond when a firearm is mentioned. Maria del Mar not too happy about the cameras and didn't want her face to appear. Antonio as usual is only too happy to get any publicity he can, but as always looks like the shifty bandit that he is even when trying to play the 'honest businessman'.
Antonio threatened by someone in order to extract money - sounds familiar, except the roles have been reversed for once.
Oh the irony!
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