For everyone...

I received a cryptic e-mail from Ammex today advising of 'important information about your community on the website'. If you are registered as an owner with them I presume you will get the same. 

Their website now includes a set of accounts for Casares which does have an English version and some of the items make interesting reading. Have a look when you get a chance it doesn't take long. Do we have any accountants or property developers in our midst who can give us some thoughts on the expenditure.  For example 77000 euros on jardineria empresa (whatever that is), 80000 euros on cleaning the stairs,  54000 euros on a doorkeeper(s) (who has managed to remain remarkably incognito not to say invisible). 9000 euros on swimming pool equipment seems a trifle incongrous considering the pools seemed to be closed most of the year. The site is very large and it is possible that others with more experience than me will find the costs expended appropriate but these were incurred at a time when large areas were not yet completed on, so will it be even more expensive in the future?

Have a look and lets check we are getting value for money.

On my recent visit I \was advised by MLH that  there was over  300 completions. Miguel from Interlarken said completions were  nearer 400. I have written to Amex this week pushing for date for election of member for comminuty .The sooner we have control as owners the better. So far it is a complete joke . I ask that you all contact and push for this.I have had no correspondence from Amex since I completed in Nov  -I seem  to do all the asking and chasing the inormtation is not forth coming from Amex . Want I dont want to happen is for the June 1year deadline to be missed and Amex get another year control with interlarken without purchasers getting involved.    

Next week I will post e mail address for Amex so  as many people as possible can contact Amex and push this forward. Lets not be ripped off for another years commuinity charge.

We have not yet completed, so don't have access to the website. I am a Chartered Accountant and own a couple of leasehold apartments in the UK, so happy to look at the accounts and compare relevant costs with our UK properties. Someone will need to send me the accounts though!

Emma

Emma,

The "accounts" being referred to are in fact budgets upon which the Community Charges are being based for the first year. A separate document shows the ownership coefficients and calculates the Community Charge for each individual apartment (the documents we have access to only cover Blocks 3 to 20).

The documents are in .pdf format so it should be possible to attach a copy to an email. If you would still like a copy please let me know your email address and I will attempt to send them.

All the best

Simon & Teresa

Lot of good responses from my message. Thanks everyone. It is interesting if the 1st June is a deadline for electing a managing agent for 2007/2008. There are 4 AGMs planned and the details are on the members section of the ammex website (one for each 'area' of the development ). However these AGMs are 01/06, 15/06, 07/09 and 30/11. Does this mean that Ammex will have control for another year by default? We do need to look at who is to manage our properties on our behalf. What I can determine from the documents on the Ammex website is that there is a great deal of work involved and anyone undertaking this will need to have fairly substantial legal, technical resources, this is definitely not a job for an owner who has not got the relevant background and time and language skills.

 However we do need to be using an agent who has our interests at heart and does not try to run the development to suit their own needs. For example one of the things which most irritated me this year was the closure of the pools and the undoubted disappointment it no doubt caused those affected. I would add that I was not affected but deeply sympathised with those who were. When reading the documents placed on the website they stated that the pools were closed because Spanish law demands the presence of a lifeguard. Firstly the people I have spoken to (who are Spanish and property owners who live on a development larger than ours and with larger pools) stated they had never heard of this. Their understanding was that this was a requirement only during July and August. However putting this on one side I note that the cost of emloying a lifeguard is 2,800 Euro per month. There are 550 appartments approximately, this equates to a cost of 5 euros PM per appartment. I for one would vote for the pools to be opened from April to end November each year based on this cost.  Ammex are intending to open the pools from 01/06 to 30/09. Too bad for you if the weather is good in other months. This to my mind is an example of someone trying to run our community without understanding the needs of holidaymakers or those wanting to rent their appartments.

There are other rules which seem inappropriate, how about only being able to take your rubbish out from '21 to 23pm.'  I don't know what that means either but presume 2100 to 2300. ''The rooms will be locked and it will be forbidden to bring down the waste at a different time'. Exact quote from the Ammex website. As many people as possible need to see these rules and make sure they are challenged where appropriate. Not sure how we will do this exactly but at least EOS gives us a communication platform

I have only just started reading up about how the community of owners should be run, but from my brief reading so far, as I understand it the owners need to elect a president and a committee (not sure how many), these people presumably are owners. The committee then elect a management company / administrator (administrator does not have to be an owner) to deal with the day to day running. This is not vastly dissimilar to how it would work in a block of leasehold flats in the UK, I have second hand experience of this on two seperate sites in UK.  The management company would then have the relevant expertise to run the show, in accordance with instructions given by the committee of owners.

Now given the vast number of urbanizations, there must be lots of management companies and like most things there must be good ones and bad ones. Perhaps a start would be to talk to other owners on other sites in the general area and get opinions of good and bad management companies. I know some owners on a small site in Estepona - between us we must be able to come up with several options. So then we should draw up a shortlist of management companies that seem good, and ask them for quotes / proposals, etc. I think a good management company is very important, especially in the early stages as they will effectively be our advisors on everything, including the law, as we are presumably all novices at this! This again is not unlike the situation in the UK.

Now how an earth we can do this before 1st June, I'm not sure!  Another consideration is that Ammex may not be that bad - they are after all currently working for Interlaken and not the owners, and therefore taking orders from Interlaken? Having had no direct dealings with Ammexx yet, I'm not really qualified to rate them as good or bad. Also like most things, I think we may have to lower our expectations to coincide with what is the Spanish "norm"!!!

There is a book called "You and the Law in Spain" by David Searl which apparently has a good section on communities, available on Amazon but 4-6 weeeks delivery time. I have ordered it. Also available at El Corte Ingles in Puerto Banus, I believe. I've just found a website which has some interesting info, not least  a factsheet on the subject: http://c-euro.org/index.php It's a funny web address, but failing that you can get to it via www.fipe.org. Justin Aldridge has just taken over as President on his community, so I'm sure he'll have some info. Also there is a regular article from another President, but I haven't had time to read it yet.

If the owners are going to elect a committee and president on 1 June, we should find out who is interested in taking up roles and then put together information to help us all vote. I don't want to be the President, that sounds a bit scary for the first year, but I'm happy to be another lesser official!

Hi

I remember sending my details to Ammex but have not had a response. Can anyone provide me with the link to resend our information.

I am an accountant and would certainly welcome a chance to review the financial statements.

Regards

Gus

OK

Lets get the ball rolling!

Who would like to be President?

My area is PM2.

I am not putting myself forward merely giving it a kick start. We need to get organised and quickly.

Dates of forthcoming AGM's

 PM1 blocks 1&2  1/6/07      PM2 Blocks 3-20 15/6/07,       PM3 Blocks 21-27 30/11/07      PM4 Blocks 28-32  7/9/07

I feel it would be of benefit if the President lived on site or was at least there regularly and it would help if this person had some experience in this type of role.

Please all feel free to add to this criteria and lets "Get it On"

Ian

Thanks to Ian for copies of the documentation. Can anyone confirm that my "current" block number of 18 puts me in PM2

Regards

Gus

Re criteria for President I think that a variety of skills would be really useful in the committee of owners if possible. The President could have any of the following but it would be good if the others in the community could complement him. I have pencilled in a few suggestions below, no doubt others will want to add.

The tasks in the first few years are quite varied and it seems to me the following wold be helpful, Accountancy. We are going to dealing with big budgets here and careful management or at least detailed accountability to the owners would be advantageous. An accountant can 'crack' the numbers quicker than most. Legal, I know we are in a different country but there will be common threads running through the laws of each I am sure  and a lawyer would have the ability to at least spot obvious potential problems and maybe investigate on behalf of the owners. Engineering/ Mechanical/ Building skills. We will no  doubt discover problems with Interlaken's construction in the months and years to come. The reports on the Ammex site are referring to broken manholes, mud/ water entering garages and other construction defects. I for one would not have a great deal of knowledge as to the impact and problems these might cause but someone with the right background would be able to understand the difficulties and effectiveness of any proposed fix. Agronomy/Planting skills. The gardens will need a fair bit of work to bring them up to standard. Once again I think Ammex have made reference to this but I would not know how much of a problem this is. Also this will be one of the areas that absorbs a lot of budget in the future given the size of the planted areas. It would be good to have someone with the right knowledge who could look at a plan to turn our 'green areas' into something the envy of the coast. We have a phenomenal advantage over most other developments with the amount of green space. Done badly it could look like a wilderness, done well it will increase property value significantly and make the whole development something we can take pride in.

In terms of the right people for the jobs my guess would be those recently retired or maybe 'easing down' as it seems that this will take a little time on a regular basis and would be made easier if those involved were able to be there fairly regularly if not living on site.

This probably seems like a huge wish list but I know there are purchasers with at least some of these skills out there we just have to hope they are prepared to put themselves forward. I should declare at this point that I do not possess the attributes above and would not have the time to devote to the roles so I am not making a play for any function in the running.

I realise at the moment we need FOUR Presidents but this is also on the agenda to discuss whether this could or should be reduced to one with a vice president.

Ive read somewhere there is a format that decrees how many presidents are required in relation to the amount of apts covered, well have to check.

I would be in a position to offer advice in relation to the construction aspects on site as i am in the building industry in the UK and have a Joinery Company.

I have already requested Ammex spend some time and money on the gardening but they have responded saying it has to be put forward by the President or proposed at a meeting of purchasers. Does anyone have contact details of the temp presidents who i believe are connected to Interlaken. These are the same people we need to vote out in June for PM1 & PM2 and if we can organise a "Extraordinary General Meeting" we may be able to change PM3 & PM4 before their AGM's of Sept & Nov.

Ian

Having now read the Intro letter and other stuff from Ammex very briefly, I wonder whether getting rid of Ammex straight away is the best plan in the short term. Bear in mind that they are currently taking their instruction from Interlaken and not owners. They have stated that they are not happy with the way the site was handed to them when they took over and have also stated that it is up to Interlaken to put these things right at their own cost, not out of the service charges. They will, I assume once they are directed to by the Owner President(s)  follow orders (?!!) I can foresee a situation where we employ new managing agents who then want to get the site up to the correct standard (as directed by the owner President) using owners money, ie out of service charges and the service charges would then need to increase drastically to accommodate this.

We have had a similar situation with a new leasehold property in the UK and there has to be a distinct line between repairs and maintenance which is "snagging"  and therefore paid by the developer and those which are true running repairs and maintenance and therefore covered by the community service charges.

Now I know that many owners have not had great experiences with Ammex, but their website looks good, and they come across to me to be as being as fed up with Interlaken as the owners. But as long as they are reporting to Interlaken, what can they do? Once they are reporting to owners there will be no conflict of interest. Surely this site is a good money earner for them and they would rather keep the business and therefore need to do a good job when the owners are in charge or risk being sacked.

I am also concerned about the 4 different communities needing to have a co-ordinated approach and my understanding is that we can't change the fact of the 4 different communities. But in a year's time when all 4 communitiies have been taken over by owners it will be much easier to ensure we all have the same management company. It also seems to me that in the future the AGM's for the 4 need to be much closer together for a co-ordinated approach. The four presidents will need to liaise and work together to ensure the interest of each community and the site as a whole are considered.

I agree with ef with regard to Ammex. In fact I would go further and suggest that it might be extremely dangerous to consider replacing Ammex at this point in time. The role of Administrator of the Community is extremely complex and involved, particularly in the first year or two of the existence of the Community and the agent undertaking the role will need to have good existing contacts/relationships with various departments within the local authorities and utility companies. Ammex, being a local company specialising in the provision of this service would, to my mind, be best placed to undertake the function (unless they have local competion which we may be able to consider in the fullness of time).

My understanding is that the President of the Community must be a resident. I think that election of President(s) is where we should concentrate our efforts at present and I agree with Holhome7980 that the diversity of skills required for the role could make it difficult to find one person with all the expertise needed. It might be best if a resident President could call upon the skills of nominated expert volunteers from non-resident owners.

Another consideration is that us Brits would have to be extremely arogant to believe that we can act in isolation of owners from other nationalities - especially Spanish. The first meeting of the Community will probably be the earliest oportunity to establish the proportion of ownership from each nationality.

Obviously these are just my views but if people are generally in agreement then the first thing to do would be to try to establish who (of whatever nationality) will be resident and willing/able to put themselves forward to take on the role of President. Any ideas/thoughts anyone?

Just to make it clear in my earlier post i was refering to to voting in our own Presidents at the AGM's and not changing Ammex.

I totally agree with Simon and Emma (Slonghurst/Ef) below with regard to Ammex at this moment.

It has become clear over the last few weeks that Ammex have had their hands tied so to speak and now they are able to communicate to all the members who have managed to register, the problems they are having.

They still cannot act untill the "Temporary President" instructs them to or after a meeting of purchasers and this is where we need to concentrate our efforts.

I will try to find out what the percentage of nationalities are on the complex with regard to Simons ref below.

With regard to those who are having difficulty registering with Ammex, did their lawyers send their details to Ammex at completion and if not get them to do it. I'm sure my lawyer mentioned to me that he had to do this at completion. When i later sent my details to   www.info@ammex.org   i got a very quick response.

Ian

I also agree with the sentiments expressed thus far. As far as I am concerned I believe that Ammex should be allowed enough time to allow us to appraise their discharge of responsibilities to us as owners.

As fo rthe skills necessary I would separate the nature of the required skills as suggested into two:

President and Landscape - must be on site

Accountancy and Legal - would not necessarily need to be on site as these roles would mainly review and advise on appropriate matters.

I am an accountant (FCMA) and would be happy to provide analysis, input and support to the President(s).

Regards to all.

Gus

Agree totally with last 3 posts, it would be very good at this point to find out a) who is resident or going to be resident, I know one person, so will ask her b) other nationalities represented within each of the 4 communities. (Couldn't the girls in the office give some general info here, without being specific.  Apart from anything else I have read somewhere (unrelated to here or Ammex) that unless EVERYONE agrees the AGM has to be held in Spanish (I think this is from the Law of Horizontal Property!!! That could be a disaster (for me anyway), and if that is the case for others, we need to jointly take along an interpreter!

I wonder if Ammex would actually welcome us all being interested and pro-active and perhaps one or more should meet with them and discuss how we / they can jointly communicate with the owners of each community prior to the AGMs so that we can get and distribute the necessary information regarding potential Presidents / officers, etc. Surely it would be a welcome change for them to have a bunch of owners turning up and saying "come on lets get together and sort this out TOGETHER" instead of loads of complaints! In the first instance, I think each owner needs correspondence, asking for skills and volunteers and take it from there - only Ammex have all the contact details and would not be able to give that information to any of us at present, until we are entitled to that info by nature of being a committee member / President or whatever, which won't be until after the AGM. Bit of a chicken and egg situation, but "where there's a will........."

We will be there from 9-20 April and I'm more than happy to do my share of investigations, etc, in and amongst sorting out furniture!

RE communication to and from AMMEX

I have read in their rules that all need to have a spanish contact address.If you are managing it your self you may not have this, I own a property in Alicante where all owners are communicated to by email and we all see each others emails nad we all get notices by emails from the Managing agents

What do people think of doing it that way as it will be quicker not cause confusion save postage by manging agents etc If agreed how do we get ammex to change their rules. Also an Ammex web site ( or our web site courtesy of eye on spain ) would also be a good way of everyone keeping in touch

Site off must have all our emails so cannot they provide it to Ammex

any thoughts?