GP Needed ? any suggestions

Am I totally alone in being the one person to believe that I was buying on a complete complex with all facilities as described in the brochure and repeated endlessly by all sales personell?

I am currently being pressured to pay the balance of all monies immediately with no retention for all that is missing and no guarantee that these rather important items will ever be provided, apparently there is nothing repeat   nothing within this contract to legally protect the buyer against this. Apparently my 425,000 euros will buy me only a rather mediocre apartment on a very active building site with all the mess, inconvenience  and danger that entails. Phew - how could a lawyer sign such a contract without any warning whatsoever.

My surveyor, whose opinion I value highly, has commented as follows:-

 "Good to talk to you last nighe evn though the news was not so good. I have this morning spoken to Tracy at the complex and can tell you a bit more.

1 The golf course. You will look out onto the golf course of Camerate, when it is built, no ide4a of completion of that!

2They are still building Casares del sol suites as you go in which on on someone else’s land as I understand it but she says that the dirty part is almost finished, however it wil be dusty  for a while yet.Think completion for that is April 2008.

3 Sports complex. Seems to be a problem with the land and the Town Hall!!!!  No surprise there then! Short term is something in the suites complex, maybe April 2008.

4 Gardens need time etc .

5 Commercial centre  will be built but not yet.

Seems to be about 3/4 years before it will all be complete. Tracey was trying to sell it to me as being a fantastic zone etc etc. It is  quite close to the beach but you need a car to go anywhere at all. Don’t know Norman what to say except I think maybe you should come and look at it and bring all the sales stuff you have on it."

Dream or nightmare?

Norman

 

This message was last edited by normansands on 3/2/2007.

No!  we all fell for it but now we must all work together to get control and get improvements made . There is no is use bol@!!!! ting the gate once the horse has bolted we have to move forward and set about having a say and getting improvements. Like  you,  we have been through the -  I've been duped stage, angry stage , you have really *ucked me off stage  but so  little is achieved by this but you go through it anyway .All we can do  is  to more forward as a group,  decide actions together take control and ensure the complex lives up to our own expectrations.

Hope  you  agree . MLH and Intrerlarken have lost a lot of respect  we arestill on the verge of providing all the sordid details to our contact at The Times who want to do an article on the problems about the complex  - still on back burner  BUT GLOWING STONGLY !! The fact the Steve Cooper (Director ) from  MLH hid behind those poor girls in the casares ofice and didnt have times to meet us fuels my cylinder to go to press!!!!

I accept what you say, but I don't believe that going public is really going to achieve anything, and for those of us trying to rent out or sell it will have a hugely detrimental effect on that process, which does not benefit ANY owner. I don't think we can do anything about the building or lack of it, but we can, as a community, take control and ensure that what we DO have looks beautiful, well looked after and inviting to all, either owners, guests or potential new purchasers, both now and in the future. For guests and potential purchasers, if the site itself looks lovely and well kept, the other stuff won't matter because they don't know about it anyway.

This message was last edited by ef on 3/3/2007.

I agree with that view. The apartments are ok once snagging is done properly and the area is beautiful. There are lovely golf courses being completed and the other services will follow. Obviously it will take time to get the hotel and other building work done which is frustrating in the short term. With a good maintenance programme the site could very quickly become a very attractive place to stay. The key is to get the Community of Owners set up and working to a plan on behalf of us all.

Thank you everyone, I am extremely grateful not to be in the boat alone, some of you are clearly self concious and have replied privately, it is a comfort but does not actually solve anything.

I am bemused by those of you who think that you can provide a solution through the community of owners, which I understand is an organisation for controlling the dustbins and keeping the place tidy and functional. I cannot see that it even has the funds necessary to keep on clearing up the construction mess that Interlaken are continually making. It seems to me that if you wish to provide the missing facilities yourselves you will need to take over Interlaken itself.

Presumably there are hundreds of us and a great deal of different solicitors/lawyers who signed these insane contracts.

You are of course right about my feelings of intense anger at my own trusting stupidity.

However, the very last thing I would wish to do is to cover it up and mislead anyone into buying or renting here based on the sales brochure. You have only got to read the other threads on this wonderful website to see that softly softly is meaningless to Interlaken, who have not got time for any of us.

Perhaps they are too busy on their next project up the hill on the Apart Hotel complex to ever finish this one.

I say expose it as soon and as widely as possible is the only way to move them.

I really do not enjoy paying 425,000 euros for something with a mean street value of perhaps half, do you?

Best Regards to all

Norman Sands

No you are not but most of these idiots are they scared whitless I agree with your sentiments the thing is its not only interlaken, med homes are just as bad they have put those girls in the firing line because believe you me if they were blokes I would have floored them long ago, most of you probably never go to the back of the site because if you did you would know what this guy is talking about.

This Place is a joke we are stuck with it but that idiot that does not what any one else to know is one selfish git
This message was last edited by nicholas 1 on 3/3/2007.

This message was last edited by nicholas 1 on 3/3/2007.

Good for you ef at least you've said something positive i like it, thats all I wanted was a reaction from someone. you must agree that it is going on a bit now it was all 
supposed tobe finished last june -july.

I think like many must do in that MLH say one thing and do another I have been there three times since November and my block  seems to have gone backwards so yes if you call this moaning then fine. Its not that but when your told things I tend to believe them until proven different I also bought for my own use and for the long term so don't lay that one on me.

I just want to move in is that to much to ask!

This message was last edited by nicholas 1 on 3/4/2007.

This message was last edited by nicholas 1 on 3/4/2007.

Thank you again everyone for your replies, please keep them coming, as I really do need all the help and ammunition I can get, to get out of the mess I am in. I have put a large part of my life's savings into this and my new lawyer tells me I am in danger of losing it.

I am sorry if I have been provocative in describing myself as an idiot, but in all my 70 years I have never before felt so stupid as I feel now.

I assumed as a new investor that I was dealing with honest professionals. I assumed that the sales agents were honest. I assumed that the developer who presented the project was honest. I assumed that the lawyer, a young English solicitor was honest. I assumed that the English/Spanish firm that he worked for was reputable and honest. I even assumed that since I was paying them professional fees that they were acting for me and in my best interest. Because of this I assumed that there was no need for me to learn Spanish and read the contract. There was no need, I was familiar with the system in this country where no bona fide solicitor would allow a client to sign a purchase contract that did not cover all the items in the sale and already have the finance in place, and this with only a 10% or even 5% deposit at risk. I assumed that it was not necessary to check drawings and things, I was confident that a spacious luxury dream property could only be that, especially at the price asked.

Finally I assumed that I was in safe professional hands and in safe company of hundreds and hundreds of others, many of you highly qualified professionals in your own right, with lots of you fluent in Spanish. What could possibly go wrong?

In these circumstances how could I have been left with a completely insane contract which provides only a basic, poorly built, small, pokey apartment with electric and structural safety problems that does not even keep the rain out, without any mention whatsover of the fantastic on site security and facilities, not to mention the superb low cost, guaranteed developer's mortgage, already in place for any purchaser. It surely isn't possible is it??

I am of course looking to fight this any way I can, I think it is essential to take the lawyers to task for signing these contracts, to petition the King or whoever to get the developer's practice of paying huge commisions to agents on signing of contracts outlawed.

I would like to see a combined burning of everyone of this developments contracts on site with the fullest publicity.

Please do not hold back in your ideas to get the current practices changed for every purchasers benefit.

Regards

Norman

 

 

I have been a member on this site for over a year and believe me we have looked at every angle in relation to the "Contract" in relation to what it says, what it does not say, and what we can do about it.

We have had expert independent opinion from the UK and Spain on whether we can take them to task over the size of the apts, the sports complex, the gated entry system etc etc. Due to the very clever wording in the contract the conclusion was it would be very difficult to win the case if it went to court and the time it would take to go through was estimated at 1-2 years due to a backlog of similar cases in southern Spain. We was also quoted a starter fee of around 10,000 euro just to get a litigation specialist involved and this would cost more as the case progressed. A figure of about 30,000 euros was regarded as a realistic estimate of total costs with no guarantee of winning the case with possible extra costs awarded against you if you failed.

On the positive side, I have visited this area 5 times over the last 18 months, the last time being the end of January 2007 and each time i have visited i have been impressed and suprised with the improvements and general feel of the area. A lot of negative comments have been made about the complex and there are the obvious issues but i do feel the area is a fantastic area to be in and the properties will increase in value over the next few years. You only have to look at the surrounding developments with the majority of them being a lot more expensive than ours, to know there is room for profit in the future. The golf courses are in fantastic condition with the El Cortisen right behind us with it's villas, clubhouse, shopping centre and large sports complex will only add to the area as a whole. The course itself is fantastic and is getting great reviews in the golf magazines and from golfers who have played there. The other clubhouse at Casares Golf & Country Club is more or less finished now and will be open to all soon and is only 50 metres from our entrance to CDS. 

With regard to our sports complex, Pueblo Real Golf and Casares Suites (the aparthotel complex behind us) are still selling apts with the same sports complex as ours as a main feature in their brochures and this with the complex backed by Arsenal who have apparently spent over £50,000 on a  "Due Dilligence" report on Interlaken and regard them as one of the better developers in Spain!

In summary i feel the complex in a couple of years, once the gardens have grown and work around us has stopped, will look absolutely fantastic and will be a very sought after area.

Ian

I agree with all you have said, Ian, very succintly summarised.

Emma

We also agree fully with Ian. Waste of money to take on litigation with no guarantee of outcome. The development will come right if we can get a good community of owners and a development plan. If you have defects we have found you can get good results if you can spend the time on site or get an agent to sit on Miguel. Norman I sympathise with your predicament and hope you can get your finance sorted.

Thank you again everyone who has replied and especially to Emma who took time to write me a long reply, it is all very much appreciated.

I admire greatly your optimism that this particular piece of scrubland hillside (please do not be offended at my factual description, I am only a simple engineer) will one day be wonderful and a great place to holiday and live. Although I cannot see how I could benefit from this since, even if I get a mortgage how do I service it in the lengthy meanwhile?

You also take comfort from the fact that this fiendishly clever contract, which has totally bamboozled a huge myriad of highly qualified lawyers (with hundreds of owners there must be at least a hundred lawyers who should have been diligently working for the owners and fee payers), does not actually say anywhere that the basic sales details will not one day happen.

Though why Interlaken should actually build anything at all that they are not contracted to is not explained. Nor indeed is there any clue given as to why they employed, what must have been a fiend of an Einstein lawyer to devise the contract in the first place, what was the point, if it was not deliberately intended to trick and deceive, as it has done.

Nor indeed has anyone questioned my description of this small pokey cramped apartment with it's ridiculous kitchen and the base value I have put on it of 50% of the asking price. I would have loved to have been wrong on this one.

I am afraid that the simpleton in me must also question how it would be possible for any court, anywhere, to ignore the basic misrepresentation that has blatantly occurred here, whether you blame Interlaken or it's agents (for which it surely must be responsible together with it's own advertising). Perhaps the question you have put to the lawyers regarding the contract was too narrowly defined. As I understand it no contract can be legal if it defies the law of the land. Surely Spain has misrepresentation laws. Am I not correct.? In any event the question of legality is not the only or even the first course. Publicity is the main and first weapon to hit Interlaken with, the legal challenge can follow along as necessary. The cost of which as you describe is very small beer in my opinion, it is certainly a lot less than what I alone stand to lose, and are there not hundreds of us to share the burden? Indeed the likely cost should be a lot less than the community charge which if I understand the threads is currently being wasted or indeed maybe being filtched.

As to resale values I think that they speak for themselves and are decided by the market, I also  think persuading Interlaken to stand by it's obligations can only enhance them.

Does anyone want to help me get my money back?, or take this accursed contract off my hands, or at least get me a mortgage so that I can stay with you and carry on the fight?

Regards to all

Norman

 

 

Yes but we know all those qualities and facilities should be there and it will reflect in any re sales value

I for one bought as it had an indoor sports centre promised which i thought would really extend the renting season and be a plus

Now it looks like it will never happen

Ihave heard that we can sue up to 6 months after completion for items missing as a community but not sure if this is possible. Any knowledge about this?

Also if we sue MLH would they have money to pay us if we won

Also do not think bad publicity will help us all there Depressed !

This is a dead end. Our contracts did not include a sports centre and I for one am not sure that a community of owners would be able to run an indoor sports facility economically. We may still get these facilities developed by third parties. Meanwhile our focus needs to be how to get a well run community with good quality site facilitiesas soon as possible.

Presumably the day to day running would be subcontracted to specialists in some way.

Whilst you are into practicalities, how does an open public site work?

From some private replies I have responded on these lines.

This message was last edited by normansands on 3/14/2007.

This message was last edited by normansands on 3/14/2007.

I understand that a barrier has been set up at the entrance and I think the MLH site includes a commitment to boundary fencing. Unfortunately there is a lot of work to be done still by the developer around the site - we need to talk to Ammex to make sure they are following up on this. We will need live 24h security to police the site.
Values are set by the market years ago MLH were able to sell out the development but the market has fallen back - probably to recover again in a few years. The completion of the hotel and a commercial centre on the site plus the fine golf courses on both sides of the road will all add value as they mature provided the site is also kept well and the gardens etc brought to a high standard.
I suppose I am taking a positive view of things but I have much more faith in people working together than in any legal stuff where only the lawyers win.

I've visited your development a couple of times as I have a couple of acquaintances who have bought here and at my own project in La Mairena above Elviria. We encountered similar problems to yourselves; One year delay, Apartments appeared much smaller than advertised, Positioning of blocks very different to the promotional materials and of course poor quality issues with the build not to mention an unfairly written contract!!

We got together and found a lawyer with a formidable reputation and successful record of taking on developers through the courts. We also recruited a spanish architect to support our case with by providing a full report on our development including checking the town plans and building licences. Costs not cheap, on average 10,000 euros plus iva and court costs but we feel confident of success through courts. If any of you believe that youve been mislead and your contract is unfair then have it scrutinised independantly and if necessary take appropriate action!

Please will anyone contact me privately if you havent yet completed due to outstanding issues, and wish to support a fight for refund of deposit, due to the Abusive Clauses in the Contract Act, if it can pin down sufficient grounds?

Angela

I am surprised that no one has responded to Norman on the board, as he speaks a lot of sense. Lets be pro active.

In car terms, why should you be forced to settle for the equivalent of a cheap little run around, when you were promised a shiny new top of the range motorcar. It is that obvious, and visual!!

PLEASE CONTACT ME PRIVATELY,  RATHER THAN ACCEPTING  ANYTHING  LESS

 

This message was last edited by angela on 4/3/2007.

This message was last edited by angela on 4/3/2007.

The project is superbly located just 1km from the beach, and within walking distance of three golf courses. Also within easy reach are the attractions of the marina of Puerto de la Duquesa, with its many bars, restaurants and shops, while the picturesque mountain village of Casares, with its ´sugar cube´ white houses clinging to the rock faces, is a short drive away.