Constitutional Questions

I am concerned at some of the actions on the resort.

It does seem unfair that La Isla can use our facilities but we cant use theirs?

 1.  I agree, like you I believe that there is an argument for making each level 2 community self governing see Understanding the community fees?? ( 2010)  that I wrote last year.  One of the problems we have is the size of Condado, we are made up of four level 2 communities with 37 presidents ( 5 level 2's and 47 if you include La Isla ) plus many vice-presidents getting agreement between us is not an easy task as can be seen by the recent debates on Telecom's.    IF the resort ever expands then there could be 100's of presidents, with that many nothing would ever get done.   So,  if each level 2 became separate, in the same way as La Isla, then each community could decide it's own future and services and spend it's budget on the issues that were decide within that community.  Ok, I can see there could be problems with this approach, we could end up with the resort fractured and cause resentment between the communities.  La Isla is an example of this, we in the main resort can see things getting agreed and improved over there and we ask "why can't we have that", telecom's being an example, and the answer at the moment is "because the majority don't want it".   

Keeping with Telecoms, the majority in the Jardine voted against option D, the majority in Naranjos voted for it, so IF we were separate then each level 2 could decide on the facilities it wanted.

One point, those on La Isla do not have access to the communal facilities in the main resort, they are like any other visitor and only have access to the public areas.

2.  I completely agree, those emails should never of been sent. (see http://naranjosjardine1.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/2011-presidents/ ) I objected to the letter and asked for it NOT to be sent to the owners in my garden.  As you say it was undemocratic and prejudiced the opportunity for new presidents to be elected.  So, ML did not send it to the gardens of those that objected only to those that did not.  Unfortunately that included some presidents who had already said they were not standing again and also some that were nominated last year for which we did not have an email address for so never saw the email, it appears that some didn't even know that they were president!!!

I can understand some people looking at the La Isla and seeing the differnece and wonder why.

When I bought our apartment we paid well over any price for a standard penthouse(180,000 compared with 130,000) size unit on Narjoas as we were told this was because the island would be exclusive. They said we would have our own security and our own pools which the other jardine and naranos would not be able to be use.

It would also be wrong for us now to have paid for this to only be part of the bigger picture. I do agree however that I could not understand why Jardines and Naranos seemed to have so little done for the amount of time they have been paying for the community charge. I am very happy with the setup on La Isla and feel (mostly) that it works well for the community.

If the Jardines and Naranos were able to do the same I am sure their would be less envy and possible more action.

I do not feel that La Isla are divisive for the community, as I am sure in England you have better areas than others side by side (Birmingham and solihull is one) Solihull has its own council but Birmingham are right next door. alot of people want to live in Solihull but the prices are higher.

I am sorry if the above offends anyone (this is deffinately not my intention) but do want to put our side to this querry.

Neil  (La Isla)

Neil I understand you paid a premium for exclusivity and I agree with that, like you said some areas can be more desirable than the surrounding neighbourhoods

It just seems like you are getting more for your service charge than us on the main resort. Just recently you have got a community centre, children’s park, internal telephone and Broadband. I also heard you may be getting heated pools?

Unless you are paying considerably more than us, you seem to be getting great value from your service charge and good luck to you.

Maybe because there are less properties, it’s easier to get a motion carried on La Isla, unlike on the main resort where there are thousands of properties?

Not moaning, just saying well done to the residents of La Isla for what they have achieved recently.

Hi

I have a ground floor apartment on La Isla and am paying 1650 euros per year.Pat

Wow that is quite a difference, I would think about double the amount I pay for a penthouse so that may explain why La Isla is getting so much so quickly with fewer owners than CDA as a whole.

On a personal note, I am very jealous about heated pools. This is a massive benefit and a great additional facility in the cooler months and one thing I would be willing to pay for  albeit  not double my current community charge.

Matt

My first comment is that, having met PTAN on my last my visit to Condado and identifying him as a chap who has made Condado his current "home", he has all our best interests at heart, and is well researched in his comments and views.

Personally, having spent the last ten years working in the largest public sector (N.I.) within the UK, my real fear and experience is that fragmentation - put simply creates division, unwanted competition and anomosity.  Condado should, respectfully in my humble opinion, all be "as one".  If we diversify into small sections we will only create a bureaucracy (which costs money and takes time), and ends up with us having many meetings in differing sections, ultimately about the same things.

If we have a clear strategic view on what it is we want for Condado, (improved facilities in the Foro, golf clubhouse, sports area re-opened etc etc) and how we plan to work towards this, by keeping ourselves together we will share information, knowledge and resources and therefore work towards getting what we all want.

I am out this week and will personally be voicing my discontent to ML at their "election tactics" which fall outside the spirit of democracy.  For me this year has identified that we are fragmented, and our lack of coordination has led to such simple things as us being unable to get a true sense of who wants to pay an additional 2 euros for communications.  I for one intend to work with those who reside on Condado, recognising that we all need to identify a clear path forward and ALL work towards it, not just leaving it to a few lonely souls.

Anthony

In the beginning wasnt CdA supposed to be made up of many resorts under one development. I thought Naranjos and Jardines were also meant to be private from outside visitors but PW changed the rules when they had to cut back on the Oasis and the Golf Suites and Mirador. Each of these should have had private access in fact we understood that each Jardin would have had private access. I agree that Isla owners paid for exclusiveness and it was advertised promoting that exclusiveness. Recent developments have only given a few things tho' the internet access being one but the club house isn't is quite how that actually sounds as there's no bar. Are the pools heated I thought there was a problem with that?

La Isla pools are not heated . Our Presidents are looking into the possibility of heating but there are a few problems like excessive cost, only small increase in temperature, etc.

Must say I agree competely with the view that the individual parts should act as one community,  I bought into the 'resort' concept and all that it included. I did not buy into a segment or a sector in isolation or one to be held at arms length from the rest. 

Also agree that Mls' election moves are inconsistant with the democratic progress..

 Hi Guys, what I'm talking about here is financial independence not splitting the resort.

At the moment each level 2 is supposed to be in control of it's own budgets but in reality it is not, what I'm proposing is that the budget is reorganised into the 4 level 2's to make them more accountable and in control.   To take a simple example, every tree in my garden is dead and has been for two years.  To get them replaced I need the approval of ALL the presidents.  If we each controlled our own budget then I would only need the approval of the presidents in my level 2.  I believe this move would streamline the decision process.

Seems there needs to be some streamlining of the decision making if replacing trees is such a problem.  I would have thought that was what ML were paid to do with our million dollar gardening budget.

I'll assume phil's idea is an improvement because he is having to work the current situation.  I would be a little wary of splitting budgets too much.  What happens if one area of CdA is hit by storm damage or such...do all the repairs have to come out of their budget. But I can see getting approval of all Presidents appears unworkable and I would have thought a majority or even 2/3 would be more sensible.

On La Isla, I have no issues with them being separate and "exclusive".  I do have an issue with our gated community being open to the public just because PW didn't build Oasis  I would expect security, at some point in the future, to take names and times of entry and exit of everyone not residing in Naranjos/Jardines whether they enter by car or by foot.

Hi

I believe our fees on La Isla cost extra because we have to pay for our security and also pay for a proportion of the other security gates.I think the reason our presidents are improving our area is that they have renegotiated the price of the pool cleaning and gardening etc and are using the savings to enhance La Isla.We also have an excellent web page for La Isla that was set up at his own expence by our president Paco,so voting or informing us of anything is updated right away.Regards Pat

Hi all,

To confirm, La Isla has had a small community (which has a good president) and we were set a tarriff that allowed for a surplus. we also had (as mentioned) reductions made (by the presidents) in some of the costs. This gave the the opertunity to make some improvements. These were voted on and acted upon. (again because we are small we can obtain a good response and act quickly).

The heated pools I am trying with the presidents to impliment for La Isla. I have found a new system that covers the pool (by a liquid and so invisibale) but allows the heat loss to be reduced. This means the pools could be heated for the months of April to Early Nov. I believe the costs are now far lower than first thought but will not give all year round heating. This should be voted upon shortly (I hope ) so that it can be installed.

Anyone who requires info on this system PM me and I will discuss.( as more pools that have the cheaper it will become)

I feel support Phil and try to make your group smaller so that you are able to govern the areas like La isla but still have an overriding council for us all. On this point I believe that "Paco" has had these meetings and has given his desires for the greater good of the community. Ie he mentioned a few ideas all for the whole CDA not just la Isla.

Neil.

The one issue and it could be a big one for Jardines/Naranjos is non payment of community fees.

If you split the budgets up do they get the budget based on number of properties or on community fees levied, or on community fees actually collected.

What I'm not clear on is if we split the resort into level 2 "cost areas" would we continue to pay into a central fund with our fees or would there be a number of funds administered separately.  Or is it simply how the budget is divided/controlled that is the issue.

 see Understanding the community fees?? ( 2010)  

Basically the community is split into 4 level 2 communities each paying an amount towards the overall budget depending on the Quotas for the community which are based on its size.

There are currently two parts to the budget, the outer and the inner.  All communities contribute towards the cost of the outer, including La Isla.  Only the 4 inside the main community pay towards the inner cost.  In the current budget sent with the call to the AGM you will see these as Group 1 and Group 2, there is also a Group 3 which are those costs exclusive to the penthouses.  Currently the level 2's share the entire cost of group 2 depending on it's quota.

What I propose it that we have ;-

Group 1, The exterior costs - Shared by all 5 level 2 communities.

Group 2. Shared Interior - i.e the communal costs for Admin, road lighting, security etc

Group 3. Penthouse exclusive costs

Group 4.  level 2 costs.  i.e Gardening, watering, pool maintenance, telecoms, waste collection, repairs etc.

All the items in group 2 would continue to be shared by all level 2 based on quota, but the ones in group 4 would be paid for by each specific community as the costs of vary.  i.e

The Jardines  have a different gardening company(STV) to Naranjos(CIS) both charge different amounts.  Currently the cost of gardening is added to together and the total cost share between all Level 2's.  I would have the bills paid separately so only Jardines pay STV and only Naranjos pay CIS.

Naranjos has more pools so we should pay more than the Jardines, rather than split the total cost.

But

Jardines has more apartments than Naranjos so should pay more for telecoms ( which is a per apartment cost )

At the end of the day it wouldn't make that much difference to the community fees, but it would make managing the budget easier.

Currently each l2 pays money into the L1 account which pays the bills.  I see random amounts coming out the accounts which I cannot quantify.  With the new method the group 1 and 2 costs would be fixed at the start of the year and each L2 could then pay a fixed monthly amount to L1 to cover those costs.  Everything is group 4 is attributable to a specific level 2, so those costs could be paid from that level 2's account directly.  This would make the accountability of each level 2 far easier to understand.

Hope that makes sense?

Makes sense to me. 

The only variable I see is a major unforseen cost (in a group 4 expense) cropping up and now being met by one area rather than 4.  Would that result in high fees for them for a year to cover it?

 Hi SMV,

It shouldn't, basically group 4 is the cost of maintaining the gardens and the services for those in them can't see that much that big could go wrong.   but having said that I'm sure someone will come up with an example :-)  

It looks to me like small is beautiful and manageable with all areas contributing to the infrastructure of the whole resort. This way we can make decisions to suit each area as La Isla are clearly doing and reducing the obstacles to making decisions and progress.