Proposed budget for 2011

 I was reading the e-mail containing the proposed budget from ML,

Some of the things i find outrageous like €100k for cleaning the penthouses.

€349k for street cleaning which works out about €7k per week.........Is this just for the 2 ladies we see pushing the wheelie bins around....i would like to see a breakdown of these costs.

Another is the irrigation system......for all the internal lands it is €75k and for the outer ring road it is €200k.

Seems to me that we could get a free sports zone and broadband if these costs were looked at a bit more closely or else i want a job sweeping the streets.

These are just a few things i have seen at a glance, I will look at it a lot closer now.

Anyone have any thoughts on this.

Mark 

Same comments have been made before previous AGM's once figures are released. The Presidents have worked really hard to get the figures reduced massively from what we were paying with Polaris's arrangements.

Generally we are paying for a contract with individual companies for their services- they put in tenders. As the Presidents are well aware of getting value for money I dont doubt they have taken on what they consider to be best value. As for irrigation- water is expensive in Spain and thats one reason they had negotiations with Alhama de Murcia council to take over some of the cost for the management of the ring road. and why they reduced the lighting out there too.

Consider how many Penthouses there are and all the stairways, walkways and lifts have to be cleaned regularly to maintain hygiene and safety.  Plus it keeps them looking good for longer and reduces the need for early refurbishment. But that type of building always costs quite alot to maintain. Jardines and Naranjos apartments and even Villa Jana do their own stairways and terraces but Penthouses have public area's. Infact their roof terraces are also public area's so it all needs to be covered by hygiene and safety. 

The resort is big that's why the road cleaning etc costs so much- I doubt two ladies with wheelie bins are the whole staff. I've definately seen a bloke with a brush and shovel. They also had a lot to do after the floods last August- could that have impacted on costs? Actually thats when I did see the bloke with a brush and shovel trying to clean up around the back security barriers which were knee deep in mud along the inner road, around the secuity gates office and out around the island on the ring road and beyond. Thought it looked too much for him then. Maybe the hosed all that away adding to the water bill?

People who are used to managing a budget for maintenance of properties will be less surprised at the expense of security, maintenance and general running costs.

The biggest problem will be the number of apartments not paying their CC not what everything has actually cost.

QM,

I agree - the numbers always look frightening until you've broken them down. For example the pentouse cleaning works out at just over 100 euros a week per penthouse block - take out the cost of cleaning materials, etc and this seems pretty cheap to me (consider what is charged for an apartment clean between guest visits!). I haven't had a chance to look at all the numbers yet but, to me there are two important things:

1. ML are getting to grips with the costs and they look better than last year

2. The community demonstrates it is aggressively pursuing non payers - I look forward to seeing the details on this. Will they be provided at the AGM does anyone know?

I must also add I think ML are doing a pretty good job from my personal experience of them having reported a number of issues, etc they have been dealt with effectively.

 The numbers do look frightening, and no matter what way you break it down it is still expensive even if the lad with the shovel brought 5 of his mates along with him, It seems that the resort would be better off employing people directly on yearly contracts and cutting out the middle men and regardless of just over €100p/w per block of penthouses, I still think at the most it would take 2 full time staff to look after them and labour is not that expensive in spain. So i would like to see a breakdown and see exactly what we pay for and how many staff are supposed to be on site.

I know water is expensive in Spain, the point i am making is that it (ONLY) costs €75k to water the whole resort inside the fence yet the ring road costs €200k...seems excessive, maybe we have leaks. 

Not really disagreeing with you M100- just that these things are expensive. The resort wont take on its own employees to do this work. Its not done like that, I dont think we can employ individuals in that way- it's all done with companies. We'd have to set up  a section or dept to manage staffing or we'd end up with someone off sick and have no security cover or we are back to one bloke with that shovel. Someone always has to manage staffing and we end up paying wages and taxes for it all and for a secretary and staff facilties would have to be provided and rented and so on and some of that has to be duplicated for each area of staffing thats taken on. As well as equipping them and training them. Even cleaners have to do health and safety courses.  Believe me I know. Besides the fact that staff pay can be less in Spain it's not quite slave labour.

The grassed area's outer ring road are massive and yes there have been leaks and probably too many water outlets. In these hot climates its amazing how many, many gallons of water have to be used to keep grassed areas anything like green (and also how often each day they have to be watered). Wasn't there some talk about putting immitation grass on the outer ring road- I think they should change it to a desert design like the golf course? Although the plantings still require water regularly.

No doubt there will be lots of discussion as more people will read the contents of the emailed documents.

 Hi Tony

I think what we are paying for security is very good value at €367k, 24 hours a day 2 gates open plus mobile foot and car patrols, So there always seems to be plenty of staff, which is why the street cleaning and penthouse cleaning look very expensive in comparison, as they only work till 5 and there does not seem to be many cleaning staff around, That is why i am questioning the cost as it just does not look right.

Mark

Good point- worth an email to your President then?

I would hope with 36? presidents they should be able to organise themselves into subgroups looking at different areas of spend. For instance if there were 6 project teams comprising of both residents and non residents they could look at the following with ML, or Olagolf or whoever

Suggested groups

1 cleaning including pools

2 security

3 communications ie telecoms

4 sports facilities including golf

5 commercial and social facilities ie shops. the clover,

6 Resort Management/speaking to the council etc

If 6 people looked after each of the above and reported up through the various levels of presidency monthly we should be able to manage the costs and have immediate information to be cascaded down to all of the owners. It may take a couple of months for the presidents to get familiar with the information but after that ML, Olagolf, even the banks and PW could be challenged through the formal channels.

Just a thought

Paul

 if petnhouse roof are public property does that mean any1 resident can go up there to take in the view?

I think so. At least thats what the agent who took us around told us. He said these roof terraces would be great viewing places for when the golf course has tournaments. They dont belong to any individual apartment, so they are for common use I assume. There's no restriction on access to the stairways. A couple of things actually put my mother in law (at the time) off having a top floor penthouse as she didnt want a lower floor apartment because she was worried about noise but fancied a top floor one. Then the agent said that they'd be open to anyone and of course residents in the blocks could be up there having bbq's and partying till late etc. I thought all this quite unlikely myself- its very hot up there in high summer and residents have their own terraces so who'd be bothered dragging a bbq up there. To be fair the roof terraces are a lot smaller than he described them to be- he made them sound like one long open space with a series of pergola's so he may have been given different spec's. Actually they are divided by walls and alot of space is taken by air con units so space is minimal- but they will be good viewing places come the day.

All,

Where is it possible to see the proposed budget for 2011?

 hello,

The Penthouse roof terraces may be public but its public in that it is shared by more than 1 owner not public in the sense that is is free access to all owners?  When you study the budget you will see that Penthouses have separate funds for staircleaning etc which are not shared by other owners so only penthouse owners can use these spaces.

On the question of BBQ's i know it was just a statement but BBQ's are not permitted on common ground only in Private properties. However if the new rules are accepted at the AGM then Gardens  / Penthouse will be allowed to have communial Hog Roasts, BBQ's Parties, etc on common ground with Permission from their President and the Administration providing that safety and preservation criterior are met.

Mageeds post on using Contractors for better deals is spot on better deals with bigger work packages.

The 2010 and the new Proposed Budget for 2011 are in the info being sent to Owners regards AGM venue and Agenda.

Not Smooth good suggestion but we have had some committees working on various issues since Mileniun Took over I think these will become more common as and when more Presidentys live on the Resort and canm spare the time.

There's lots to be considered in the new budget but its true its very expensive to accomodate some requirements.

 But, I still think the roof terraces can be considered public access.

I'd agree that the information given to us before purchase isnt exactly correct as we were described a long roof terrace accessible from several staircases but available to all. There isnt anything on the Penthouses to suggest non public access, is there?

If this info isnt correct then I suspect that Penthouse owners will want some sort of security access to their bulidings come the day we do have any sort of influx of visitors. Paying to have a building kept clean isnt sufficient evidence to restrict access. Rental and owners visitors will testify to that.

Many years ago the then political party of the timeoffered a scheme for council house tennants living on Estates & residents of High rise flats to form their own management commitees. some worked very well employing their own cleaners ( Flats) Milk men Refuse collectors etc. This gave employment to those in the area on unemployment benifit. They also had the say in who moved into empty properties

Some worked very well. but unfortunatly most failed

There were a number of reasons but mainly. Those on the comittee saw it as a job for the boys & wanted a good slice of any profit but the main reason was because no one had any experience of managing differing groups on a large scale or the finances

Those who did it well & fairly still exist today ie housing asociations but most failed, many with a great deal of debt.

So  taking over is not always the  best solution

If you do need a over all manager for such a scheme

Ham has all of the qualifications & I just  need an excuse to be a perminant resident on Condado but some how I think his own job is stressful enough & so with the posibility of having to communicat to people with differing languages too  having to grasp the political issues a different country has would resound in a loud NO THANKS from him. pity.

Jan 

i'll be studying this breakdown with a fine toothcomb...it all sounds a bit smoke and mirrors to me re. what is public and what is not...i sense a jardines revolt against the playboys in the penthouses with their £100k cleaning tag.....mpn the jardines revolution...

Not seeing the elitist bit- there's a lot of stairs and a lot of penthouses. They pay for their bit afterall- not the rest of us plebs in the various Jardine and Naranjos's (to take your theme)

To be honest there''s an arguement for which area is superior to which and  its a difficult decison on CdA. So the revolution is likely to stumble.

My father in law says we have a tower block v council estate issue developing for the future. I dont quite agree as I feel we are miles above either, but maybe others will see where he's coming from.

Hi

I have lived in a towerblock & a council estate & proud of it. Though living where we do now & the house we have we may be concidered very" Posh" now.

I agree with you as I can`t see where your father in law is coming from either.

If it came to a revolution & I think it would fail too. Though I think the suggestion was tongue in cheek

 I think the towerblocks &  council estate would join forces & against who ?

I have no idea. A revolt set for failure.

Jan

Think he probably just means there's always going to be a feeling that one type of apartments are 'better' than another. More expensive maybe but better is in the eye of the user/owner so costs dont dictate anything really.